my handsewing technique

[BearMan]

Hi Everybody,

After getting a good awl blade, the correct needles, & making a good stitching pony, I was able to produce some desent stitching. After looking back at some of my earlier projects, my stitching needed some work. Here's what it looks like now: Ed the"BearMan"

[TomLine]

Cut a channel for the thread to lay in.

First I use a stitch groover to get a nice clean channel. Then I use a overstitch spacer tool mark where the holes go evenly. Then a use a saddler's punch (lacing chisel) to cut nice big fat square holes. They look awful, then close up on their own later.

I got tired of bashing the chisel with a hammer, so I stuck the chisel in a press and just sit there and punch the holes pretty quick now.

Getting the underneath side of the stitching looking good is the hard part now.

[jimsaddler]

Hi Everybody,

After getting a good awl blade, the correct needles, & making a good stitching pony, I was able to produce some desent stitching. After looking back at some of my earlier projects, my stitching needed some work. Here's what it looks like now: Ed the"BearMan"

Hi BearMan

you are getting better, careful on the corners though (the Dead Sailors) they are from a shaep blade dutting a bit too much.

Can I make a comment please to all. Don't sharpen the body of the Awl Blade only the point should be sharpened. The Body has to be polished as it only spreads the Hole to accommodate the bulk of the Threads. My best Awl Blades have all been Hand Made by Me from all sorts of Materials and patience. Even so called Bad Blades can be transformed into good ones. High Tensile Bike Spokes are a good source. Just don't Blame your Awl Blade for not perfect Stitching, blame the lack of practice. By the way a new Blade will take time to wear in as the Leather is a natural Polisher and will polish it's way to being so easy to use.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[Monticore]

any tricks to corners i get a nice square corner top side but underneath i can't seem to get a nice square. with a saddle stitch i get 1 thread trying to kinda cross over the other one(if that makes sense)

cory

[jimsaddler]

any tricks to corners i get a nice square corner top side but underneath i can't seem to get a nice square. with a saddle stitch i get 1 thread trying to kinda cross over the other one(if that makes sense)

cory

Do you throw your back stitch?

Best sewing is done by throwing the back thread up and over the emerging Needle. This will give you the same slope as the front if you do it right. Most stitch by leaving the thread at the bottom which leaves a dull stitch that never looks as good as the face. By picking up the thread and throwing it over the needle it will form a simple knot in the Leather and give you the same slope, front and back.

Someone asked about 12#(per inch) stitching. Fine well done stitching is the ultimate!! Please try it People. I see exhibitions of such and such and the raves about the beautiful stitching sometimes as coarse as 4# or 5#. It upsets me to see it as over here it is called a "Jacko Job" ( Jacko was a really rough worker years ago, allways in a hurry so he stitched very coarse and charged a Bob (one Shilling) a stitch). Actually I was taught to use 8# as normal, 10# as good and 12# as best and that was the norm throughout the Trade.

I might add that we had some beautiful Leathers to work with then. Not like the Dry under worked Leathers we get to-day. I used to ask my Tanner to work the Cods Oil, Soap and Tallow in by Hand and it made for beautiful Leather to Sew ( lasted longer too).

I am still trying to get a Demo DVD produced to help explain what I'm saying. Maybe now that I've started teaching Stock Saddle making I'll be able to find a Student who will be able to operate the Camera for a bit and edit the results.

Enough for now, Please have a happy Day.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[tonyc1]

Do you throw your back stitch?

Best sewing is done by throwing the back thread up and over the emerging Needle. This will give you the same slope as the front if you do it right. Most stitch by leaving the thread at the bottom which leaves a dull stitch that never looks as good as the face. By picking up the thread and throwing it over the needle it will form a simple knot in the Leather and give you the same slope, front and back.

Someone asked about 12#(per inch) stitching. Fine well done stitching is the ultimate!! Please try it People. I see exhibitions of such and such and the raves about the beautiful stitching sometimes as coarse as 4# or 5#. It upsets me to see it as over here it is called a "Jacko Job" ( Jacko was a really rough worker years ago, allways in a hurry so he stitched very coarse and charged a Bob (one Shilling) a stitch). Actually I was taught to use 8# as normal, 10# as good and 12# as best and that was the norm throughout the Trade.

I might add that we had some beautiful Leathers to work with then. Not like the Dry under worked Leathers we get to-day. I used to ask my Tanner to work the Cods Oil, Soap and Tallow in by Hand and it made for beautiful Leather to Sew ( lasted longer too).

I am still trying to get a Demo DVD produced to help explain what I'm saying. Maybe now that I've started teaching Stock Saddle making I'll be able to find a Student who will be able to operate the Camera for a bit and edit the results.

Enough for now, Please have a happy Day.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Jim, we had an old saddler down here, sadly passed on now, whom everyone referred to as "Shilling a Stitch", but he was good!

Tony.

[JerryLevine]

Just to add a bit to Jim Saddler's comments about pricking irons and pricking wheels (not to be confused with stich markers and overstitch wheels)...These still find a lot of use with English saddlery and bridlery, but not much (I don't think) in western saddle making. The great thing about pricking irons/wheels is that they actually produce marks at the right angle and if you get a bit of practice in, holding your awl perpendicular to the surface of the leather and conforming to the angle of the mark, you can quickly produce acceptable results on both the front and the back of the leather.

I sew my English bridles at 10spi, which is still quite hard work, especially on the eyes! I've not tried 12 or greater spi yet. Rumour has it that the old timers here used to do upto 16spi!

The down side with pricking irons/wheels is that new ones are expensive (http://www.abbeysaddlery.co.uk/product_det...;attr1=NO010005) at US$60+.

You can get 2nd hand ones on eBay and they're worth snapping up if you can. Practice hitting them square with a plastic/rawhide mallet/maul, overlap each run by a couple of teeth and practice going round corners by tilting the iron onto its edge and only using a couple of teeth at a time. Try the tutorials here: http://www.bowstock.co.uk/tutorials.html

Good luck!

Jerry

[Monticore]

i picked up a hand sewing book and i was doing it way wrong i was twisting the needles which made a big knot in each hole which neede a lot of tension or bigger holes to get a nice even flush look on the leather.

i am using a ozbourne awl that i have modifed a bit to give a bob douglas sized hole but its definetly not as sharp as it would need to be.

i live in northern ontario where the closest leather tannery or tandy is 4 hours drive away so i have done all my learning online/here and buying leather online is tough.even the leather watch straps i make i have no idea how good they are since i have never seen another strapmakers work in the flesh.the customers have been happy but i know they can be much better.

here is a pic of 1 of my latest done with thonging chisel the one that give an awl shaped hole maybe thonging is a bad term

Edited July 3, 2009 by Monticore

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Just a tip, I never use anthing but; an awl. I have made my own out of a lot of different materials and also used several of the store bought ones. The real trick for me, is to make sure that it is sharp!!! I hone it on a diamond stone, then an Arkansas stone, and finally I buff it with jewlers rouge. Sounds like a lot of extra work, but; once you get the hang of it, it dosn't take but, a few minutes and the results is more than worth it. For smaller items like watch bands I use awls that I made out of stainless wire, about 10 ga. in dia. Nothing like good tools!

Bondo Bob

[Monticore]

the problem i have with the awl 1 is practice hehe but 2 is i am not sure how big to make my holes i am using 3, 4 sometimes 7 cord thread , with the small holes i find it hard to pull the needle through , i don't want to use pliers everytime. are my holes too small maybe?, if i make them a bit bigger the awl holes shoe too much and i don't like the look.

i like that idea of using a wire, i had though about using stitching awl (without the thread) just for making the holes.

if you could psot a pic of you wire tool i can see about making 1.

cory

[Monticore]

here is my try with the awl , 7per inch, grooved line, 3ply thread from mainthread. i am a bit afraid to run a deep groove due to the 5oz leathers(doubled)

i have not seem much leather work so i am not sure if this is acceptible or should i make my holes smaller/bigger . i use a spacer on my awl to keep my depth consistent.

the backside didn't turn on great my groove was shallower and i have bad lighting /shadows etcc in my work area.

tips always welcome

Edited July 4, 2009 by Monticore

[jimsaddler]

the problem i have with the awl 1 is practice hehe but 2 is i am not sure how big to make my holes i am using 3, 4 sometimes 7 cord thread , with the small holes i find it hard to pull the needle through , i don't want to use pliers everytime. are my holes too small maybe?, if i make them a bit bigger the awl holes shoe too much and i don't like the look.

i like that idea of using a wire, i had though about using stitching awl (without the thread) just for making the holes.

if you could psot a pic of you wire tool i can see about making 1.

cory

hey Cory

just looked at your stitching. It's up to scratch on the top just a bit of practice needed on the back. Light material are harder to get right though. As for a stitch groove forget it as it will force the stitch into a straight line with allowing it lay neatly. Awls are not complicated item! as long as they have a sharp penetrating point/blade. the body can be oval or a flattened diamond. For fine sewing I preffer an oval as then less leather is cut, so the stitching is stronger. I also use many different materials to make my Awl Blades from as long as it will not bend easily, snap or flex too much. Polish the body sharpen the point and away you go. Usualy cast a few cents or nothing, just 10 mins of time on the linisher and Buff. Bike Spokes, Silver Steel, old Awl blades, high tensile Fence wire, Stainless Steel Mig wire, even made an awl out of an old worn Pocket knife which was excellent as it folded away and I could carry it anywhere.

As for the problem pulling the needle through with different threads. Your Awl should match the Needles, which should match the thread, especially when using ready made thread. for a 3 cord (equivelent) thread I would recomend a #3 needles but for a Hand made waxed end thread I use #5 or 6 egg eyed harness needles. The problem of the bulk at the needle eye means using an awl large enough to allow you to make a hole big enough to pull the needle and thread through with a bit of effort. Might I say that prctice is the only way to judge this as the more you do it the better your grip and pull will become so the hole can be smaller. I often have someone watching me sew efortlessly through Leather, sure enough the question comes up, "can I try that?" So they try and can't get the first needle pulled through let alone the back needle. The look on the face is enough, then the comment of " you've got very strong fingers". So keep going you'll only get better.

I appologise for not using photo's to show you what I mean, I just can't work out how to get them loaded.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[Monticore]

jim thanks for all the info. thanks for taking some of your time in helping. using surgical gloves has helped with pulling needles through, i think i am using 0 or 000 sized needles the smallest ones from tandy, i will try and get bit bigger ones it would probably help.

one last question would u still suggest an awl with supper soft leathers, since most of the stuff i use isn't tooling type leather i have problems with my softer leather with it pulling my glued pices apart sometimes or distorting the leather . this might be due to awl sharpness though .

[Rayban]

They key is absolute consistency. You have to do the exact same thing the exact same way each and every time, or the result will be different.. for instance if you stab a hole and put the left needle in first and the right needle behind the thread in the hole, then you have to do it that way throughout.

My suggestion would be to start with Al Stohlman's, The Art of Handsewing Leather...Hands down the best instruction out there.

Ya know....... you know these things but it just doesn't sink in till someone comes along and slaps you up long side the head with it......

The "consistency" thing I'm talking about......I started concentrating on this and it has really helped...I tend to "wiggle" the awl in the hole just a bit to reem it out somewhat on some projects....well I've been concentrating on doing the wiggle the same way every time.....and it's also just as important to extract the awl in the same angle as it is to stab at the same angle.

Thanks Marlin!! Here's my latest. Not perfect, but a whole lot betta!

[RustyD]

They key is absolute consistency. You have to do the exact same thing the exact same way each and every time, or the result will be different.. for instance if you stab a hole and put the left needle in first and the right needle behind the thread in the hole, then you have to do it that way throughout.

My suggestion would be to start with Al Stohlman's, The Art of Handsewing Leather...Hands down the best instruction out there.

Man you arn't kiddn about that!!! If you stopped and scratched your leg in the middle of the first stitch you better find a place to scratch every time!!! LOL

I work for Springfield Leather (upper right hand corner) and I teach a lot of people how to hand sew in a days time, we have ton of sewing machines , but man there is real satisfaction in having to say, "no its hand sewn"

The holes MUST be consistant weather drilled or punched ( I perfer punched the stitches tighten up as the leather shrinks back,) they should always be at the same angle and distance. The back not looking even will also be cause by your awl or drill bit not going through straight up and down, the thicker the leather the more it can deflect. But what ever you do I always start with the front stitch, once it is through it should be held down and away at a little bit of an angle which will let the back thread lay kind of on top and beside the lower thread, which ever direction you pulled the thread away, always pull it the same way. You must be very careful that everything happens the same dirrection every time, I know thats been said be it can't be said enuff!! hope this helps

Edited September 11, 2009 by RustyD

[jimsaddler]

Man you arn't kiddn about that!!! If you stopped and scratched your leg in the middle of the first stitch you better find a place to scratch every time!!! LOL

I work for Springfield Leather (upper right hand corner) and I teach a lot of people how to hand sew in a days time, we have ton of sewing machines , but man there is real satisfaction in having to say, "no its hand sewn"

The holes MUST be consistant weather drilled or punched ( I perfer punched the stitches tighten up as the leather shrinks back,) they should always be at the same angle and distance. The back not looking even will also be cause by your awl or drill bit not going through straight up and down, the thicker the leather the more it can deflect. But what ever you do I always start with the front stitch, once it is through it should be held down and away at a little bit of an angle which will let the back thread lay kind of on top and beside the lower thread, which ever direction you pulled the thread away, always pull it the same way. You must be very careful that everything happens the same dirrection every time, I know thats been said be it can't be said enuff!! hope this helps

Dear RustyD

The best Stitchers that I have employed worked mechanically. In fact they sang all day in unison while sewing Harness Traces at 8 spi x 5/8" thick x 6"3" long, two rows. Every stitch was perfect, both back and front. I bought them the biggest Tape Player available to play music and it paid off with the results.

Why I quote this is to emphasize that you are right, every stitch must be the same as the previous one. The best way is to get used to one Awl for each size of thread and be comfortable with it to the point that you forget to concentrate and it becomes like driving a Car, Natural reflexes for the job.

I've never drilled holes as round holes are not good for sewing as the core of the Leather is removed. Punching has it's uses but again the Holes are bigger so the resulting Stitch has to be bigger.

When using a good Awl and I want as near to perfect Stitching as possible, a good Pricking Iron that is sharpened to a point is used. The reasons being, it will come out of the Leather easily and the Awl will follow and enter the centre of the hole every time. Thus making as near to perfect a stitch as possible. I have 3 Irons in each of popular stitch sizes (8,10,12), a full Iron, 2 Teeth ground of and a half Iron. This allows for shorter and longer splices to be set-up easily by combining the Irons. Every tooth is pointed to a wide V which actually helps to bounce the iron out after driving it into the Leather, as well as putting the centre in the hole.

I hope this helps some of you get the perfect slope back and front (refer to previous post on stitching) that looks so good. Someday I'll get to be able to download some photo's of the methods when I work out how to do it.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[RandyScott]

Someday I'll get to be able to download some photo's of the methods when I work out how to do it.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Is there anyone who lives close to Jim who can teach him how to down load his photos?

[blinddog]

Hi All,

Just ran across this thread, and couldn't find any good pics of my 12# or finer handstitching,

so I took this one of a quick and dirty swivel knife sheath I made years ago. I don't claim it's

a great example of fine handstitching (note the bobble in the middle of the top row!), but it's

an illustration of how fine you can go with needles and an awl.

As I recall this was sewn with waxed 2 cord Barbour's linen, and I eyeballed the 12 spi. 'cause I

didn't have a #12 overstitch at the time.

Happy Trails,

Jeff

Edited February 28, 2010 by blinddog

[chouinardragon]

Hello Jim Saddler,

No wonder when I study the stitches of Hermes, they always appear flat slots on the back and round holes on the front.

I have few questions on hand stitching.

1) Questions on Awls.

if the SPI is less than 12, what kind of awl should be used? The round awl with flat tip or the diamond awl we used to use?

If it is the round awl with flat tip, the stitching holes on the front probably will not as big as the marks made by pricking irons.

If it is the diamond awl we used to use, should we make half knots on the back? Also, if the diamond awl is used, the stitches on the front will not appear / / / / / but \ \ \ \ \, right ? So, is there any other ways to stitch?

2)Questions on Thread.

As we know, Hermes uses "Fil au Chinois" linen thread. There are many sizes. 332,432,532,632,832,1032,1532. The bigger the number, the finer the thread.

The 532 and 632 are mostly used. Are they as big as the 18/3 and 25/3 thread of Barbour's?

Thank you.

Chris

Hi all

This Awl cuts the Leather then the Body stretches the Leather open to allow the Needles to be passed through. there is no room for the threads to do anything but lay in place neatly. The back thread is thrown over to create a SINGLE KNOT knot in the material and the thread pulled up firm completes the stitch. If done properly the Back will look as good as the Face side and have the same lay. The Knot will help to hold the stitch even when the Thread is worn on the surface. I add that the Needles should be much finer than the thread and the thread tapered to allow the Needles to be placed on the taper so they can be pulled through easily. (Hand made Waxed end Linen (Hemp) or Silk is by far the Best thread to use) But it all boils down to Practise Practise and more practise.

[jimsaddler]

What a funny coincidence.

T0-day i was showing a Couple how to improve their Hand Stitching. Using my fine Awls. They were amazed at the difference it made to have just the tip as the Blade to cut the Leather and make such neat tight stitching. Then I got your questions, so I'm well prepared.

Firstly I really want to do some Photo's at least but a Video would be better. I'm a bit closer now as I am updating the Saddlers & Harness Makers Association of Australia page now and learning a lot about downloading from doing it. All I need now is a Camera person.

For coarser Stitching a Diamond profile will do from say 9SPI and coarser and leave a good stitch. Even the Finer Stitching can be done with Diamond but it weakens the Stitch because of the extra width.

Actually the Pricking Iron sets the surface for your stitch to lay in. I have ground my Irons finer and to a Steeple point for ease of use. So the marks are finer on the Leather than those of an altered Iron. The result is that when the round shaft of my Awls fits better. Then the Stitch pulls tight and neat into the impression of the Pricking Iron (Don't drive too deep as it is a guide). Always throw the back thread over the Needle to make a half Knot as it serves 2 purposes,1, it evens up the slope of the back stitch to match the slope of the front for neat finish,2, The knot acts to hold the stitch in place like a Screw, especially as the Wax of the thread sticks the thread to the Leather (this is why we use Resin in the Wax) over time. Good Sewing will hold even when the top of stitches wears off because of this.

Remember the aim of good stitching is to be very neat so the Back stitch should always slope the same way as the front just as you state. Awl cuts /// on front Stitch is \\\ and a mirror image on the back.

Regarding threads.

I mourn the passing of good Patent Hemps here in Australia. We can only get #12 Shoe Thread which is too coarse #15 patent is the best, especially in Golden colour. Lately I am using .6mm Italian Poly Braided Thread in White. it is round in profile and sits neatly in the Stitch hole. the flat Braids look bigger than they should in the hole.

Please remember that I am lost when machine thread sizes are quoted. My size recognition runs to 2,3,4,5,6 Cords and 6,8,10,12,18,20 for Machines.(Old sizes). 2 cord Waxed end for #12 spi, 3 cord for #10spi, 4 for 8spi, 5 & 6 for 6spi.

Now I'm using this Braid it is .6mm 10 & 12 spi, .8mm 8 spi, 1.0mm 6spi. I bought it on special clearance for Au$20 and it is like Tiger thread. It will take about 20 years to see how it lasts. So far so good?

The other way of stitching that I use sometimes is single needle, but not often. The same principal applies there also. Throw your back stitch! or sometimes I actually throw twice to form a surface knot. This is used for the like of Girth Strap anchoring so that if one stitch is cut it wont undo.

So endeth the Sermon for to-day!

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Oh by the way some of the people who are learning from me are going to come when it warms up and do the filming for me. It's too cold at present as GLOBAL COOLING is affecting us badly here.

Hello Jim Saddler,

No wonder when I study the stitches of Hermes, they always appear flat slots on the back and round holes on the front.

I have few questions on hand stitching.

1) Questions on Awls.

if the SPI is less than 12, what kind of awl should be used? The round awl with flat tip or the diamond awl we used to use?

If it is the round awl with flat tip, the stitching holes on the front probably will not as big as the marks made by pricking irons.

If it is the diamond awl we used to use, should we make half knots on the back? Also, if the diamond awl is used, the stitches on the front will not appear / / / / / but \ \ \ \ \, right ? So, is there any other ways to stitch?

2)Questions on Thread.

As we know, Hermes uses "Fil au Chinois" linen thread. There are many sizes. 332,432,532,632,832,1032,1532. The bigger the number, the finer the thread.

The 532 and 632 are mostly used. Are they as big as the 18/3 and 25/3 thread of Barbour's?

Thank you.

Chris

[chouinardragon]

Hello Jim Saddler,

Thank you.

I'd like to see your round awl and pricking irons and your stitching tutorial.

I wish I could fly to Australia immediately to help you to hold the camera...

Chris

[alb]

me too!

Hello Jim Saddler,

Thank you.

I'd like to see your round awl and pricking irons and your stitching tutorial.

I wish I could fly to Australia immediately to help you to hold the camera...

Chris

[Lippy]

Hey Jim,

I'd come hold the camera, but Google Maps tells me I'd have to drive (from Oregon to Childers) over 13,000 miles and it would take over 54 days. That includes tolls, a ferry ride or two and a visit to Japan. So that's not happening anytime too soon. However, I might suggest mounting the camera on a tripod or on a stand above your workbench. If the camera was small enough you could mount it on a hardhat on top of your head.

And about thread sizes! Yikes. Attached is a chart I found on the web awhile back. Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Lippy

thread_Verlane.pdf

[jimsaddler]

Hi Lippy

I actually have a tripod. But to jump up and set the camera each time is beyond me. I now have several offers of help to get Photo's and a Video made for posting. Just waiting for our normally Mild Winter to return to normal, as its too cold at present.

Please keep pushing me.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

By the way there is a shortcut if you can dig fast enough nearly straight down (it's bit warm though).

Hey Jim,

I'd come hold the camera, but Google Maps tells me I'd have to drive (from Oregon to Childers) over 13,000 miles and it would take over 54 days. That includes tolls, a ferry ride or two and a visit to Japan. So that's not happening anytime too soon. However, I might suggest mounting the camera on a tripod or on a stand above your workbench. If the camera was small enough you could mount it on a hardhat on top of your head.

And about thread sizes! Yikes. Attached is a chart I found on the web awhile back. Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Lippy