America the land of the ?

[jbird]

With the passing of the 4 of July as most of us know is independance day in America, some thought come to mind please forgive spelling errors I am doing this on my phone in the back seat of a car.

I was at a boy scout meeting awile ago even though I am not a scout I was invited to give a little class not a actual scout event any way I found a shocking lack of history in the minds of these boys and in Americans in genral and the train of thought has changed, win America was born men worked for what they had and loved there country there family and there God, not making any point about God just a fact but today boy and girls are growing up the easy way not having taught to them the history of there Country and the hardships that gave them the easy life, I find this to be a shame and a big mistake my hole life I have loved the flag and the words in are sacred document and have tried to live up to those great acts done by so many.

So why do people not give a hang what they do or how they treat there country we all are in this together and I am not a fan of a lot of this Countrys actions but men of freedom stand ye steady and lend your voice to help and give back to a nation that was founded on the best morals any nation can be.

My heart feels a deep sadness for the loss of respect and love for the better things in life and no matter what God you do or don't belive in all men love freedom and a good and happyl life .

I hope I have not offended any one but I had to sound off on what I feel is missing

LOVE OF COUNTRY LOVE OF FAMILY LOVE OF (GOD)OR LOVE OF COMMUNITY, as you might live to better this world.

Chime in on this if you feel like it God bless America

I see America, not in the setting sun of a black night of despair ahead of us, I see America in the crimson light of a rising sun fresh from the burning, creative hand of God. I see great days ahead, great days possible to men and women of will and vision.

Carl Sandburg

US biographer & poet (1878 - 1967)

Josh

[Rawhide]

With the passing of the 4 of July as most of us know is independance day in America, some thought come to mind please forgive spelling errors I am doing this on my phone in the back seat of a car.

I was at a boy scout meeting awile ago even though I am not a scout I was invited to give a little class not a actual scout event any way I found a shocking lack of history in the minds of these boys and in Americans in genral and the train of thought has changed, win America was born men worked for what they had and loved there country there family and there God, not making any point about God just a fact but today boy and girls are growing up the easy way not having taught to them the history of there Country and the hardships that gave them the easy life, I find this to be a shame and a big mistake my hole life I have loved the flag and the words in are sacred document and have tried to live up to those great acts done by so many.

So why do people not give a hang what they do or how they treat there country we all are in this together and I am not a fan of a lot of this Countrys actions but men of freedom stand ye steady and lend your voice to help and give back to a nation that was founded on the best morals any nation can be.

My heart feels a deep sadness for the loss of respect and love for the better things in life and no matter what God you do or don't belive in all men love freedom and a good and happyl life .

I hope I have not offended any one but I had to sound off on what I feel is missing

LOVE OF COUNTRY LOVE OF FAMILY LOVE OF (GOD)OR LOVE OF COMMUNITY, as you might live to better this world.

Chime in on this if you feel like it God bless America

I see America, not in the setting sun of a black night of despair ahead of us, I see America in the crimson light of a rising sun fresh from the burning, creative hand of God. I see great days ahead, great days possible to men and women of will and vision.

Carl Sandburg

US biographer & poet (1878 - 1967)

Josh

Josh...I agree with you here. But I'll tell you why it is this way. It's not that it isn't taught how Americans had to fight for their beliefs, it's not that they are taught about God, not about the price and liberty of freedom...It is simply this, Americans have become complacent, because there is no major struggle going on. No one telling you that you can't eat here, or you can't have that religion, you can't assemble for a common cause. Sure there are the everyday politcal battles that go on, but for the most part that's a battle of ideals. With that being said the complacent American just let's everything slide, because it doesn't directly affect them in the immediate moment. No matter how hard it will affect them in the future, they'll only dwell on the now.

What we need is persistence. The will to keep going, no matter what, no matter the education you have, no matter the money you have, continue to perservere. Continue to strive to be better than yesterday. Learn something new.

I'll leave my comment with my favorite quote from Calvin Coolige:

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

[wildrose]

Good quote, Marlon.

I read a story in the paper the other day about how teens feel more hopeless and are more suicidal/risk taking than ever. It struck me that they don't seem to feel they have anything to live for. Also, their moral absolutes are mostly gone. This generation, it seems to me, is being taught that "anything goes" and "if it feels good, it must be okay".

I worked for Cabela's in the Hamburg, PA, location, around the time the "Life is Good" stuff started hitting it big. We had mugs, shirts, all kinds of merchandise. The slogan is "Do what you like/like what you do". I kidded with a co-worker: "gee, I'd like to go kill someone, guess I should go do it!" Yes, that's taking it to an extreme, but if you really examine the slogan, it is a bit pathetic. It's all well and good to enjoy your job, but to suggest that you do whatever you like seems to me to be the problem nowadays. Self-denial is a thing of the past.

[Regis]

I am so proud of our nation and especially our founders and forefathers. I was Blessed to be raised by responsible parents who instilled love of God and our national heritage. We had American history in school, real heroes in real life, and entertainers who lifted the greatness of our country. Now our youth are faced with freak shows that denigrate our heritage, and too many men who won't stand up as men and be responsible for themselves and their families. With these immoral models I am especially proud of the young people that rise above the trash, respect themselves, and take pride in a nation that still provides freedom. Freedom to learn, to work, to grow, to be responsible, and yes to fail. I can not go through a wonderful patriotic medley without tears for those that gave their lives for the freedoms we enjoy. Let us hold them dear and remind our youth of the real heroes that made this nation great. We need a new generation of real men & women who respect themselves, respect each other, respect our heritage, respect their neighbors, and respect our nation and stand up for all these.

Regis

[jbird]

Marlon, Holly, Regis

I agree fully there is serious lack of work ethic and base morals.

Josh

Edited July 6, 2009 by jbird

[esantoro]

I agree in part with you both, but I would add the following that I think leads to further complex questions of how modern societies are organized and controlled. I've linked to this film before in another thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3LSyck0YTE

This _South Park _ episode is rather poignant:

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/127947

Globalized business requires consumerism to keep the economic wheels churning. Structures must be positioned to fuel that consumption. That consumption, in turn, must be designed not to fulfill promises of satisfaction but keep the tease going. If a majority of society jumps on this bandwagon, it will be more willing to do the work required by such a system, even if that work is unfulfilling. In fact, the work being unfulfilling opens up opportunities to attempt satisfaction through superficial consumption. Thus the wheels keep turning.

Oh, crap! Now I cant stop, so I must end with this passage from Henry Miller:

"The way I see it, the world is going to the dogs. You don't need much intelligence to get along, as things go. In fact, the less intelligence you have the better off you are. We've got it so arranged now that things are brought to you on a platter. All you need to know is how to do one little thing passably well [...]. If you had any aesthetic leanings you wouldn't be able to go through the stupid routine year in and year out. Art makes you restless, dissatisfied. Our industrial system can't afford to let that happen -- so they offer you soothing little substitutes to make you forget that you're a human being [...]. No, just when they've got it down pat, everything running smooth as a whistle, nobody squawking anymore, nobody restless or dissatisfied, the thing'll collapse. Man wasn't intended to be a machine. The funny thing about all these utopian systems of government is that they're always promising to make man free--but first they try to make him run like an eight-day clock. They ask the individual to become a slave in order to establish freedom for mankind. It's rum logic [...]. Jesus, when I see what lawyers and judges are trying to preserve it makes me puke. The law hasn't any relation to human needs; it's a racket carried on by a syndicate of parasites. [....] You've got to squint as you go along; you've got to pretend that it makes sense; you've got to let people suppose that you know what you're doing. But nobody knows what he's doing! We don't get up in the morning and think what we're about. No sir! We get up in a fog and shuffle through a dark tunnel with a hangover. We play the game. We know it's a dirty lousy fake but we can't help it--there's no choice. We're born into a certain setup, we're conditioned to it: we can tinker with it a little here and there, like you would a leaky boat, but there's no making it over, there's no time for it, you've got to get to port, or you imagine you have to. We'll never get there, of course. The boat'll go down first, take my word for it.... Now if I were Henry here, if I felt as sure as he does that I was an artist, do you think I'd bother to prove it to the world? Not me! I wouldn't put a line down on paper; I'd just think my thoughts, dream my dreams, and let it go at that. I'd take any kind of job, anything that would keep me alive, and I'd say to the world: 'F__k you, Jack, you're not putting anything over on me! You ain't making me starve to prove that I'm an artist. No siree--I know what I know and nobody can tell me different.'"

-- Henry Miller, _The Rosy Crucifixion: Sexus_ (1962)

Ed

[Ian]

I just got back from a ride through beautiful countryside, gorgeous green hills and the smell of fresh cut hay, and at every turn were family gatherings, kids playing softball and in the distance a fireworks display starting up. in front of almost every house was our flag. I tell you, there was at least one point I had tears in my eyes, thinking of how incredibly grateful I am that my parents brought us to America.

The day I was sworn in as a citizen was the most memorable of my life. Both my brothers have retired from the Marines, yet have not yet become citizens. My brother Graeme says "what will be any different if I'm a US citizen or not?". I wish I could explain the difference I felt going into the courtroom for the swearing in ceremony to how I felt when I left. Going in, America was just the country I was living in- coming out, America was MY country. Judging from the tearful expressions on the faces of the other new citizens from 45 different countries that day, I was not alone in my gratitude.

I am fully aware that some people from other countries are baffled and amused by American patriotism. All I can say, is that anyone who doesn't have a love and patriotism for their country is seriosly missing something. So, I am an unashamed patriot and anyone, regardless of political party, nationality or idealistic persuasion who seeks to undermine our country and constitution is my personal enemy, undeserving of any consideration.

And that's my soapbox this weekend!!

[azrider]

Amen brother!

I have visited a few other countries, and while there are some issues here, there is no other place I would rather live. Last night I watched most of my town assemble in the parks downtown and watch bands, eat, and watch the fireworks display. No one was talking about our counry being disliked by other countries, a ression, or anything else. It was a bunch of people celebrating just being a part of this country. I was sure glad to be there.

[jbird]

Ian

you had to go threw some stuff to get the benafits of are country and now you understand the value of the flag and the valus this land was founded on.

Josh

[TexasJack]

A company I worked for put together a film to celebrate their 40th anniversary. They had a lot of great footage from the old days of pipeline construction and such. At the time they showed it to us, the wheels were beginning to fall off and the company would be sold a few years later (after several layoffs and division sell-offs and all the crap that goes with that.) On the way out of the theater, one of the young engineers remarked, "Wow, that would have been a great company to work for!" and one of the old engineers turned around and said, "It was."

And on the weekend of the USA's anniversary, I find myself deeply saddened to look at where things are going and realize that the young people will never know how great this country really was.

When my son took history in high school just a couple years ago, he showed me his book. WWII was NOT discussed. No stopping the Nazis, no putting an end to the holocaust, no Pearl Harbor, and no brave military personnel sacrificing their lives on the beaches of Normandy and Iwo Jima. The chapter covering the 1940's was, "Life During WWII" and it dealt with women working in factories and recycling scrap metal.

If you keep the kids stupid, it will make it easier for them to adjust to the new socialist 'paradise'.

By the way, "God bless America" is probably already illegal in California and "America the land of the..." has been optioned to either Nike or China.

God Bless Texas. God Save America.

[Jordan]

Ain't it the truth. How many natural born americans could pass the exams to become a citizen of this country? a sparse few! myself included. I am in my fifties and was lucky enough to be taught our history even though I am still finding out how watered down it was. I watched a show the other day and was absolutely amazed at the biblical roots the founding fathers were inflenced by, in the formation of this country, that by not teaching it has been hidden from us. Never been to D.C. but apparently our national monuments are overflowing with these references by inscriptions and the museums and libraries are full of documents that most never see.

[Ian]

Ain't it the truth. How many natural born americans could pass the exams to become a citizen of this country? a sparse few!

Jordan, I hate to break it to you but the citizenship exam was ridiculously easy. When I first applied, I was given a reading list of books deaing with history, government and geography. I studied like a maniac for weeks until I could answer every one of the hundreds of sample questions perfectly. When the time came to take the test, I remember the first question was 'what are the colors of the flag?', and how many 'original states were there?' On the last question, I made the mistake of saying "there were 13 original colonies". The examiner said "of course you'd say colonies since you're British" (but he gave me the point anyway) LOL

[Jordan]

LOL, they must have changed the tests since I learned about them way back in high school. I was just thinking about some of those people Jay Leno interviews on the streets, some of those answers are hilarious, bet some of them couldn't find a hole in the ground if they fell in it.

[Raven]

You think you have it bad? In England patriotism is a dirty word associated with extreme right-wing movements. Flying the Union Flag is seen as disruptive and the flag of England is just something the soccer fans put out when the World Cup is on.

[esantoro]

There is another aspect to patriotism that is willing to take a critical look at the country and recognize its shortcomings. I've spent several years in and around Europe. Every time I traveled it was long and slow on ferries, trains, and buses. You get to see a place that way. When I returned to the U.S., I did the same on Greyhound and Amtrak.

What I experienced is that Europeans identify with their country -- the land, the culture -- much more than Americans do with their own land and culture. To me, the patriotism we tend to see here in America isn't so much about the country but about an ability and a desire to cut ourselves off from any kind of connection to and responsibility for the community, a misguided sense of freedom. What I see that tries to pass for patriotism is narcissism. The most patriotic Americans I know never talk about patriotism but feel a connection to the community -- a connection that isn't trotted out predictably on cue once or twice a year for superficial display -- and they know how much that sense of community has been deliberately eroded in the last forty years.

U.S. history is dumbed down on both sides of the political spectrum. The very same type of people responsible for current large-scale financial mismanagement were the ones who benefited the most by breaking from British Rule. Two-thirds of those who fought against the crown stood nothing to gain. Their lot was the same under either rule and always has been. Thomas Paine was a show piece propaganda tool to rally popular support for the war. The founding fathers in no way wanted Paine's version of democracy, but they found his rhetoric useful and effective. Today we are still that same America.

Edited July 7, 2009 by esantoro

[jbird]

The facts remain that all the founding fathers were set on a new way of freedom

and better way of life for all, how ever freedom dosent mean freedom from good living and good hard work,

but today the Constitution hangs by a thread and the good old USA is not peopled by those who love there Flag And there sworn duties as Americans.

[esantoro]

The United States for the last three decades has had predominantly conservative leadership in both parties who have all but destroyed the Constitution for personal economic gains and economic gains of an industrial class. This class has not worked harder over the last forty years; it has enacted laws and deregulation to work in its favor. It is this class that loves the flag waving, as it so easily diverts attention from their own unpatriotic behavior and actions.

Jefferson saw these contradictions in the early workings of America when he wrote "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

The facts remain that all the founding fathers were set on a new way of freedom

and better way of life for all, how ever freedom dosent mean freedom from good living and good hard work,

but today the Constitution hangs by a thread and the good old USA is not peopled by those who love there Flag And there sworn duties as Americans.

[Jordan]

Speaking of traveling here's a story I cam across the other day under the title "You could have heard a pin drop"

Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane.

At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his

carry on. “You have been to France before, monsieur?”

the customs officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting admitted that he

had been to France previously. “Then you should know enough to

have your passport ready.” The American said, “The last time I was

here, I didn't have to show it.” “Impossible. Americans always

have to show their passports on arrival in France!”

The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look.

Then he quietly explained, “Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach

on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find a single

Frenchmen to show a passport to.”

. . . You could have heard a pin drop.

[Regis]

Ed,

I think you missed it there. A conservative president (8 years) and very liberal house and senate (including the few years that "so called" conservative party was in charge). Congressmen threatening lenders to provide loans to unqualified borrowers and then blaming the lenders. Congress now selling access to keep certain car dealerships open. It's a group of gansters in DC now and has been getting worse for years with only a scattering of patriotic constitutionalists over the last 20+ years. Even the liberal John Kennedy would not stand a chance these days for being too conservative.

It is so refreshing to see that patriotism of the American people from Boston to the heartland on July 4th. I don't understand how we as a grassroots patriotic people deserve what is in Washington (both parties).

BTW - I spent 7 years in europe and appreciate the national pride & community spirit most had at that time (1960's).

Regis

The United States for the last three decades has had predominantly conservative leadership in both parties who have all but destroyed the Constitution for personal economic gains and economic gains of an industrial class. This class has not worked harder over the last forty years; it has enacted laws and deregulation to work in its favor. It is this class that loves the flag waving, as it so easily diverts attention from their own unpatriotic behavior and actions.

Jefferson saw these contradictions in the early workings of America when he wrote "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever."

Edited July 7, 2009 by Regis

[Ian]

Personally, I'm sick to death of the liberal vs. conservative crap. We are expected to choose one side or the other with nothing in between. Both sides will bend over backwards to excuse their own behaviour while pointing fingers at the same behaviour from the other side.

If anyone thinks that the conservative movement is the movement of the rich, how do they explain the FACT that the wealthiest states (in terms of per-capita income) are liberal - California, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York. And how surprising that these are the states on the verge of bancruptcy brought about by their policies. And, strangely have the highest tax rates in the nation. Whereas Texas, without a state income tax created more jobs in the past 5 years than all other states combined - and not through socialist stimulous packages.

Just as Cheney was crucified for his association with Haliburton (never mind that Clinton gave contacts to Haliburton for all of his own conflicts), Obama's election was bought by General Electric, whose mouth piece NBC ripped the flesh from Obama's opponents - and, oh, what a surprize that the CEO of GE is on the team of economic advisors now, and, the new lighbulbs we will be mandated to use will be made by....well, GE, as well as the components of the windmills that will soon cover our landscapes. Does anyone with any intellegence see that the parties are bought?

Personally, I don't care who the h--- marries who, and certainly have no control over how many kids of flushed down the drain so their mothers can continue their behaviour. But, I DO care that our country is being turned into a dependant bunch of losers, so their votes can be bought.

The idiots (of both parties) have be legislating and regulating and piling on taxes and fees for as long as there has been a country. The kids of today have half of the freedom we had at their age and I shudder to think what restrictions their children will live under. All the while, the dummies think they are gaining in freedom because it is easier to smoke some weed. For all their hopes and dreams of legal drugs (which, by the way, I'm one person who believes that I have the right to ingest anything I choose [although I don't even drink]), I laugh to think that the brainwashed masses cheering their pied piper will be paying 75% of their incomes in taxes within 15 years.

So...I'd rather waste my vote and vote Libertarian than join the puppet brigade and vote for the sanctioned parties. At least that way, I can keep the dream alive that one day we'll have the freedom our forefathers came here for. And, for anyone who thinks the flag fyling from my porch is a shallow display of meaningless patriotism, well what I have to say to you will probably get me kicked of the board for good.