SIEGEL OF CALIFORNIA...

[whinewine]

Welcome Steve! Please don't take any of this as "personal" every thing I wrote was 100% true. As a matter of fact if you go to your website https://www.siegelofca.com/default.asp The same item I ordered on December 17th that WAS OUT OF STOCK is STILL OUT OF STOCK and listed on your FIRST page. C.S. Osborne TL127 Edger (What I called a SPECIAL WhineWine). So am I wrong here?

Steve, Now that you are a member, How about a "club" discount!

Anyone who has done any business or run any business knows how stupid it would be, business-wise, to redo a website each & every time an item sold out. This is why God gave mouths to us & (most times) brains & ears- so we can communicate & listen to what others say & then form thought (in a mostly rational manner). As Art previously stated: USE THE PHONE! Ask questions. Communicate= hear what the other person has to say, not hear just what you want to hear.

It is wrong to malign a good company just because you couldn't get your own way, IMHO, & then turn around & ask for a 'club discount'.... That is just so....gimmie gimmie gimmie me me me waa waa waa.

[bcurrier]

Personally I'd like to thank Mr. Siegel for taking the time to post a reply. Having your business discussed in this manner in public isn't a pleasant thing. Any business' rationale for sale items is theirs and doesn't really need to be defended at all, including the stock situation. If someone wants to blow out old stock, odds & ends, or 3 items on a whim, that's his call, as is policy on restock, communications, and every other topic mentioned. I haven't seen a thing in this thread regarding Siegels that would make me hesitate to order from them. With Mr. Siegel's reply, in fact, it's just the opposite.

Bill

[Johanna]

I almost closed this thread before I went to bed last night, out of courtesy to all the parties involved. Steven Siegel has built his business on customer service, and I'm glad he came here and contributed to this discussion. I'm not taking sides, but I believe customer issues like this one are best resolved OFF the board, in private, don't you?

Thanks everyone for keeping this discussion civil and constructive.

Johanna

(I'm probably the only person here who knows who Kevin Mitnick is, and I would be tickled to be introduced!)

[StevenSiegel]

Mr Siegel,

I have to ask, and this is not an attempt on my part to start a contest of words or semantics, What is your companies definition of "crafter"? My definition of crafter applies to almost everyone on this board. Anyone who is not employed making 100% of their income from the craft are "crafters" to me. I am a "crafter" as I make almost no money from it. Is this your definition as well?

HI,

Perhaps this was a poor choice of words. Maybe this can better be expressed by our company's goals which is to offer the technical skills and know how to purchase or direct a tanner to make leather suitable for a wide variety of purposes and offer this leather in an honest manner. For example, if you were a maker who needed to know if a glutaraldehyde tannage or a zirconium tannage was better for your use and needed the leather either off the shelf or specially made, hopefully you would come to our company. If you are a bookbinder and need leather specially tanned to withstand atmospheric sulfur dioxide, we would have the leather in stock and could explain why this leather is suitable for this purpose. If you need Genuine English Bridle, not the leather made outside the UK which really has no resemblance in durability, strength or appearance then you would, hopefully, be giving us a call. If you were a chap maker and called us for "oil tanned leather" you would receive a lecture about using the wrong terminolgy, because you are probably asking for oiled off leather not leather which has used oil as the tanning agent; e.g. chamois. If you need a book on "how to build a 'whatever', or a pattern to make something or advise on stamping, we would not serve you well. If you are looking for finished products, we refuse to make/sell them because I have a personal ethical issue that this ulitmately competes with my customers.

Thank you for the question. I hope that I have not been abrasive with my answer. My personal goals are to put honesty ahead of dollars, so our company does some things in a different manner than others; the most obvious being willing to offer free return freight (within the limitation of 15 days from receipt of merchandise and you haven't cut the leather up, etc) on any merchandise from our company, especially leather and a lifetime guarantee on all tools purchased from us (barring abuse, of course). Other examples are heavily discounting or replacing for free leather with hidden defects e.g. skirting which has hard spots in the leather which is undetectable until the leather is cut.

Again, thank you for the opportunity to reply on this forum.

[StevenSiegel]

I almost closed this thread before I went to bed last night, out of courtesy to all the parties involved. Steven Siegel has built his business on customer service, and I'm glad he came here and contributed to this discussion. I'm not taking sides, but I believe customer issues like this one are best resolved OFF the board, in private, don't you?

Thanks everyone for keeping this discussion civil and constructive.

Johanna

(I'm probably the only person here who knows who Kevin Mitnick is, and I would be tickled to be introduced!)

Hi Johanna,

I was in shock when Kevin returned my call. We have a couple of friends in common. (Or, at least my friends claim they are friends of his... who knows?) If you would like, I'll keep you posted privately about the work on our site. If so, would you mind sending me an email address where to respond?

[gtwister09]

(I'm probably the only person here who knows who Kevin Mitnick is, and I would be tickled to be introduced!)

Not the only one Johanna. I too know him via his work. By the way he has GREAT business cards as well.

Steven will be well served with his services.

Regards,

Ben

[TwinOaks]

Thank you Mr. Siegel,

Your responses are well phrased and insightful. I am new to leather working and rely heavily on statements from others ( on and off this board) for information in numerous related topics. Your direct input here has given me ( and presumably others) a better understanding of your company's goals. While I am not at the point in my leather working career that I need specially made materials, nor answers to technical questions about tannage, it is nice to know where to look for them when I eventually do. Best of luck,

[greg gomersall]

I don,t buy much from Steve but I did party with him in Sheridan 10 years or so ago. Fun guy to drink with. His catalog is The most Comprehensive leather and tool catalog available from any supplier, I would hate to be the inventory manager for his operation. I also hate to turn away business but I also realize its impossible to please everyone so I have from time to time and am sure I will again ask a potental customer "What Gives You The Right To Own A Piece Of My Work".

Steve welcome on board and I will try to send a little more money your way. Greg

[bruce johnson]

Greg,

Try the LM shearlings first. I used to be a Lazy M user. When I went to visit Siegels a a little over a year ago, I took a swatch of Lazy M to see if Steve could get something close. He got in the LMs a month or so later. The wool color is more the golden traditional color, not as orange as the Lazy M. The actual leather is pretty thick also. Wool density and length seems better too. I have had people who have no clue feel both and tell me which feels denser. About 3 to 1 for Steve's. I had about 10 Lazy M's when Steve got in the LMs. I have been using them up on the relines, and using the LMs on the new ones. If you want a swatch, let me know.

[Art]

Oh yes, Sheridan was a lot more fun when Steve was there. Got Bill Reis a little POed, but then again who cared about that. Even the plane ride was a blast. Steve, please do Sheridan again.

Art

I don,t buy much from Steve but I did party with him in Sheridan 10 years or so ago. Fun guy to drink with. His catalog is The most Comprehensive leather and tool catalog available from any supplier, I would hate to be the inventory manager for his operation. I also hate to turn away business but I also realize its impossible to please everyone so I have from time to time and am sure I will again ask a potental customer "What Gives You The Right To Own A Piece Of My Work".

Steve welcome on board and I will try to send a little more money your way. Greg