SIEGEL OF CALIFORNIA...

[howardb]

Wow, this thread's hot enough to warm your beer.

Service, kids, it's the name of the game. Sounds like someone has had bad experiences with just about every major supplier. That hurts when it happens. Hurts you, and as we can see here, hurts the supplier as well.

Life is also too damn short. If someone gives you crappy service, don't go back. Have the courtesy to call them and let them know what happened, but don't feel you have to go back if the overall service is bad. I think Lt. Cmdr. Montgomery Scott said it best: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." (those of you who get that, put on your ears and salute)

After reading the thread, I can see that Tandy store service quality will vary by store. That is expected. If it's bad enough, let Tandy corporate know. You might not get the butt-kissing response that you probably deserve, but one hopes THEY get the message. Enough complaints and they will do something about it, though it might take a while.

I also come to realize that none of the suppliers are all digital and online like a McMaster Carr, where they know where every friggin' locator pin and extension spring sits, even if it is on a cart getting ready to ship. But they ship millions of friggin' locator pins, not hundreds of D rings.

The good news is, these folks either shape up and get their collective acts together, or they will fail. All we can do is let them know when they do something bad, and DO let them know when they have done something good. It's only fair.

I'm too new to sing praises on any of the suppliers, and have no negative experiences either. After reading this, I will know that backorders are common, usually not flagged, and I will have to call to find out what's going on. It's also VERY interesting and comforting to note that I could actually call the owner/president of just about all of these companies and they WILL talk to me! Try that with Microsoft...

Back to the beer...

Brent

[StevenSiegel]

WOW! Sorry if I ruffled some feathers! Like I said in the first post I spoke to Steve and he was very nice, however the problem still exists. First of all, if you are going to list something as a SPECIAL you should have it in stock. Second, any business worth their salt will have a little note on every product that read "In Stock". (If not you should update your website every couple of days and take off any item that is not expected in within a week) What I hate the most is BAIT AND SWITCH where a business will advertise something at an amazing price but when you want it there is a problem like "Sorry we sold out" or "This model is just as good" (remember I live in NY and that runs rampid here!) but with mail order you often order other items to reach the free shipping point and for what? The item you originally wanted didn't show. Also when I called to complain they kept saying that they were waiting for the order from OSBORNE sounding like Osborne's having trouble filling their orders. So being the Loser that I am ^_^ I called OSBORNE and spoke to JAKE the president and 5th generation Osborne, he said that he is FULLY STOCKED READY TO SHIP! The problem was NOT with them.

As for Tandy I LOVE that store but have found a huge difference between stores. I found a really good Tandy dealer and now when I need Tandy stuff I only deal thru him!

Hi,

I received an email this AM about some posts on this web site. I am only making ONE public response to "Scouter". If anyone wishes to reach me, please email me at ceo@siegelofca.com

1) Re: This post from Scouter

Hey Scouter,I gave you the courtesy of a reply to your insistence on speaking with me on the phone and was very polite and honest with you. I am currently at Outback's in Denver; btw the owners' of Outback are repeat satisfied customers of Siegel of California, not to mention Disney, Prince Charles, numerous 10 goal polo players, numerous custom saddle makers, and THE NY MOUNTED POLICE DEPT.

I gave Scouter my time, my honesty and my empathy.

I received in return an accusation of illegal activity, a fabrication of our communication and a mis-characterization of his conversation with Jake. (BTW I'm sure Jake will be happy to know that he has been promoted and Ralph is no longer President of CS Osborne. And, it's 8 generations, not 5)

I don't care to give Scouter any more time. If anyone wishes to contact me directly, my email address is ceo@siegelofca.com

[StevenSiegel]

I had same bad experience when I got about a 1/4th of oder I called in from their year end special. That was my very last order from them. I really liked the way Hidecrafters sent an e-mail confirming what was shipping but last couple times I called in order, they didn't have the items. I've had good service from Springfield and TLF. Those in areas where they can go pick up are fortunate. I think if I stepped up from hobby, I'd have to go with Ohiotravelbags, Weaver, and W&C.

Hi,I am Steven Siegel, CEO of Siegel of California, Inc & M Siegel Co., Inc.. My grandfather started our business in 1917 on South Street in Boston which was for many years the leather capital of the world.There have been some very good comments about back order. I realize very well that if you place an order for 1Million dollars and 1 of the items is a 5 cent widget, the entire order may be useless without the 5 cent widget. To not know that an entire 1 Million dollar will be shipped minus the 5 cent widget is wrong.This is our company policy:1) Regarding "Regular Merchandise" If we are out of stock of anything your order will not be shipped without first notifying you and getting your ok, even if that means a delay of 1 day in shipping your order.2) Regarding "End of Year Special" As is stated on nearly every page of our flyer is clearly stated that we wiil not back order any out of stock items. We will do the best that we can to notify customers at the time the order is placed if we are out of stock. We will ship what is available and will not hold your order to notify you of any out of stock items.3) If you will supply the customer service person with your email address at the time you place your order, you will receive an automated email from UPS with the tracking number, value of merchandise, etc.4) You can always call us toll-free at 800 862 8956 to get the status of your order, but we are trying to automate everything, so please don't call unless it's really necessary. This will help us with lower overhead and you, the customer with lower prices.5) Most importantly, I know that many of y'all are afraid to order leather mail order. Who knows what you will receive? Well, we have a policy to pick up the merchandise freight free so you don't have to worry about the quality of anything being not what you expected. BTW, we also ship freight free, UPS ground only, for any order over $75.6) Our specialty is leather. All of the other items are incidentals to us. We cater to customers primarily with needs for all types of leathers. I am currently at Outbacks in Denver. The owners of the company are satisfied, repeat customers as are: Disney, Shania Twan, Bo Derek, Ty Warner, The NY Mounted Police Dept, some of the largest belt makers in the world (sorry, but can't mention their names), Orvis, custom saddle makers, Harvard University, The Smithsonian, etc, etc. etc. ... forgot to mention that our leather was the leather used on the last 12 Kentucky Derby Winners. 7) We do not cater to crafters. It is not our strength. I would recommend Tandy's, Hide Crafter's, etc, etc.8) If you are looking for some GREAT deals on leather sign up for our Friday Specials at: www.siegelofca.com (BTW we have recently hired Kevin Mitnick to make sure our site is hack proof. He will be starting some time next week.))9) Finally, I would like to say THANK YOU to those of you who have been understanding and supportive.

[wolvenstien]

Mr Siegel,

I have to ask, and this is not an attempt on my part to start a contest of words or semantics, What is your companies definition of "crafter"? My definition of crafter applies to almost everyone on this board. Anyone who is not employed making 100% of their income from the craft are "crafters" to me. I am a "crafter" as I make almost no money from it. Is this your definition as well?

[SCOUTER]

Welcome Steve! Please don't take any of this as "personal" every thing I wrote was 100% true. As a matter of fact if you go to your website https://www.siegelofca.com/default.asp The same item I ordered on December 17th that WAS OUT OF STOCK is STILL OUT OF STOCK and listed on your FIRST page. C.S. Osborne TL127 Edger (What I called a SPECIAL WhineWine). So am I wrong here?

Steve, Now that you are a member, How about a "club" discount!

[whinewine]

Welcome Steve! Please don't take any of this as "personal" every thing I wrote was 100% true. As a matter of fact if you go to your website https://www.siegelofca.com/default.asp The same item I ordered on December 17th that WAS OUT OF STOCK is STILL OUT OF STOCK and listed on your FIRST page. C.S. Osborne TL127 Edger (What I called a SPECIAL WhineWine). So am I wrong here?

Steve, Now that you are a member, How about a "club" discount!

Anyone who has done any business or run any business knows how stupid it would be, business-wise, to redo a website each & every time an item sold out. This is why God gave mouths to us & (most times) brains & ears- so we can communicate & listen to what others say & then form thought (in a mostly rational manner). As Art previously stated: USE THE PHONE! Ask questions. Communicate= hear what the other person has to say, not hear just what you want to hear.

It is wrong to malign a good company just because you couldn't get your own way, IMHO, & then turn around & ask for a 'club discount'.... That is just so....gimmie gimmie gimmie me me me waa waa waa.

[bcurrier]

Personally I'd like to thank Mr. Siegel for taking the time to post a reply. Having your business discussed in this manner in public isn't a pleasant thing. Any business' rationale for sale items is theirs and doesn't really need to be defended at all, including the stock situation. If someone wants to blow out old stock, odds & ends, or 3 items on a whim, that's his call, as is policy on restock, communications, and every other topic mentioned. I haven't seen a thing in this thread regarding Siegels that would make me hesitate to order from them. With Mr. Siegel's reply, in fact, it's just the opposite.

Bill

[Johanna]

I almost closed this thread before I went to bed last night, out of courtesy to all the parties involved. Steven Siegel has built his business on customer service, and I'm glad he came here and contributed to this discussion. I'm not taking sides, but I believe customer issues like this one are best resolved OFF the board, in private, don't you?

Thanks everyone for keeping this discussion civil and constructive.

Johanna

(I'm probably the only person here who knows who Kevin Mitnick is, and I would be tickled to be introduced!)

[StevenSiegel]

Mr Siegel,

I have to ask, and this is not an attempt on my part to start a contest of words or semantics, What is your companies definition of "crafter"? My definition of crafter applies to almost everyone on this board. Anyone who is not employed making 100% of their income from the craft are "crafters" to me. I am a "crafter" as I make almost no money from it. Is this your definition as well?

HI,

Perhaps this was a poor choice of words. Maybe this can better be expressed by our company's goals which is to offer the technical skills and know how to purchase or direct a tanner to make leather suitable for a wide variety of purposes and offer this leather in an honest manner. For example, if you were a maker who needed to know if a glutaraldehyde tannage or a zirconium tannage was better for your use and needed the leather either off the shelf or specially made, hopefully you would come to our company. If you are a bookbinder and need leather specially tanned to withstand atmospheric sulfur dioxide, we would have the leather in stock and could explain why this leather is suitable for this purpose. If you need Genuine English Bridle, not the leather made outside the UK which really has no resemblance in durability, strength or appearance then you would, hopefully, be giving us a call. If you were a chap maker and called us for "oil tanned leather" you would receive a lecture about using the wrong terminolgy, because you are probably asking for oiled off leather not leather which has used oil as the tanning agent; e.g. chamois. If you need a book on "how to build a 'whatever', or a pattern to make something or advise on stamping, we would not serve you well. If you are looking for finished products, we refuse to make/sell them because I have a personal ethical issue that this ulitmately competes with my customers.

Thank you for the question. I hope that I have not been abrasive with my answer. My personal goals are to put honesty ahead of dollars, so our company does some things in a different manner than others; the most obvious being willing to offer free return freight (within the limitation of 15 days from receipt of merchandise and you haven't cut the leather up, etc) on any merchandise from our company, especially leather and a lifetime guarantee on all tools purchased from us (barring abuse, of course). Other examples are heavily discounting or replacing for free leather with hidden defects e.g. skirting which has hard spots in the leather which is undetectable until the leather is cut.

Again, thank you for the opportunity to reply on this forum.

[StevenSiegel]

I almost closed this thread before I went to bed last night, out of courtesy to all the parties involved. Steven Siegel has built his business on customer service, and I'm glad he came here and contributed to this discussion. I'm not taking sides, but I believe customer issues like this one are best resolved OFF the board, in private, don't you?

Thanks everyone for keeping this discussion civil and constructive.

Johanna

(I'm probably the only person here who knows who Kevin Mitnick is, and I would be tickled to be introduced!)

Hi Johanna,

I was in shock when Kevin returned my call. We have a couple of friends in common. (Or, at least my friends claim they are friends of his... who knows?) If you would like, I'll keep you posted privately about the work on our site. If so, would you mind sending me an email address where to respond?

[gtwister09]

(I'm probably the only person here who knows who Kevin Mitnick is, and I would be tickled to be introduced!)

Not the only one Johanna. I too know him via his work. By the way he has GREAT business cards as well.

Steven will be well served with his services.

Regards,

Ben

[TwinOaks]

Thank you Mr. Siegel,

Your responses are well phrased and insightful. I am new to leather working and rely heavily on statements from others ( on and off this board) for information in numerous related topics. Your direct input here has given me ( and presumably others) a better understanding of your company's goals. While I am not at the point in my leather working career that I need specially made materials, nor answers to technical questions about tannage, it is nice to know where to look for them when I eventually do. Best of luck,

[greg gomersall]

I don,t buy much from Steve but I did party with him in Sheridan 10 years or so ago. Fun guy to drink with. His catalog is The most Comprehensive leather and tool catalog available from any supplier, I would hate to be the inventory manager for his operation. I also hate to turn away business but I also realize its impossible to please everyone so I have from time to time and am sure I will again ask a potental customer "What Gives You The Right To Own A Piece Of My Work".

Steve welcome on board and I will try to send a little more money your way. Greg

[bruce johnson]

Greg,

Try the LM shearlings first. I used to be a Lazy M user. When I went to visit Siegels a a little over a year ago, I took a swatch of Lazy M to see if Steve could get something close. He got in the LMs a month or so later. The wool color is more the golden traditional color, not as orange as the Lazy M. The actual leather is pretty thick also. Wool density and length seems better too. I have had people who have no clue feel both and tell me which feels denser. About 3 to 1 for Steve's. I had about 10 Lazy M's when Steve got in the LMs. I have been using them up on the relines, and using the LMs on the new ones. If you want a swatch, let me know.

[Art]

Oh yes, Sheridan was a lot more fun when Steve was there. Got Bill Reis a little POed, but then again who cared about that. Even the plane ride was a blast. Steve, please do Sheridan again.

Art

I don,t buy much from Steve but I did party with him in Sheridan 10 years or so ago. Fun guy to drink with. His catalog is The most Comprehensive leather and tool catalog available from any supplier, I would hate to be the inventory manager for his operation. I also hate to turn away business but I also realize its impossible to please everyone so I have from time to time and am sure I will again ask a potental customer "What Gives You The Right To Own A Piece Of My Work".

Steve welcome on board and I will try to send a little more money your way. Greg

[esantoro]

I just wanted to add my voice to this thread. There may have been a few times where I didn't receive what was expected from Siegel, but they were always very professional and helpful. I'm very happy with their service, and I know of no other company in existence that has their satisfaction and return policy, which alone should allow Siegel the benefit of the doubt.

Ed

[SCOUTER]

How funny is it that whiner actually thought I was asking for a discount?! Keen sense of humor that one!

[Johanna]