Picking Out A First Sewing Machine

[DougVL]

I've seen a lot of posts about selecting a first sewing machine. Most recommendations are to get the best machine from the best dealer and avoid problems.

I have a radical suggestion - get something used and cheap first. It's a lot more enjoyable to use a premium machine if you already have some experience with a not-so-good one for comparison. Or - you'd appreciate a Mercedes a lot more if you had a Volkswagen first, assuming you're buying your first car.

And if you have some troubles with a machine, you'll learn more about using, adjusting and fixing a machine. You'd appreciate the dealer support more, as well as the better machine if/when you upgrade.

It's nice to have a broad experience base. Trying out different machines is a fun way to get experience.

And this way you might wind up with multiple machines with different specialties, increasing your versatility.

Just my thoughts. My opinions are guaranteed to be worth at least twice what you pay for them!

Doug

[JLSleather]

I must be the middle of the road guy, Doug. Maybe that's the same as being the odd man out, which wouldn't be new either Here's a couple thoughts, though...

I still don't see the point of $5k (or even $3k) for a shiny new machine unless you're "all in" and know what you're getting is going to do what it's for (meaning you have to start with knowing what it's for).

On the other hand, you can't learn the RIGHT way with the WRONG tools.

When my biggest baby boy wanted to learn to play the guitar, I told him he'd need a Martin, or at least an Ovation. You can save money with the Walmart version, but you will get USED TO HEARING THE WRONG SOUND. When you hear the RIGHT one, you won't recognize it.

I could rotate my tires with a jack and a vise-grip pliers, but chances are I'd have ruined lug nuts (and since the whole thing could slip, maybe the other nuts broken too). Sure, I'd "appreciate" the jack stands and impact wrench later, but I could have appreciated it NOW, and been done sooner and safer and with better results.

Finally, speaking as a relatively old guy, I remember computers with 4k of Ram and 200 Mb disks. While I CAN appreciate this one (which is not state of the art by any means), sure woulda been nice to have this "back when". And I can't imagine trying to enter this long-winded musing with a machine that needs "adjusting" every time I start a new line.

I could go on, but the truth is I'm not trying to talk anyone into or out of anything. Just some thoughts I've had. I personally was uninformed enough to put a few hundred $$ into an old Singer machine that does SOME stuff. I'm only getting my money out of it by sheer stubbornness. If I had it to do again, I would pass on buying it, just because it takes too long and uses too much space. Meanwhile, I'm still researching what machine I will buy ... and I been thinking about a bigger boat anchor anyway.

[Art]

Hi Doug,

An ok view as long as it is you going that direction. Many times on LW, we find folks that haven't sewn before and have LW as their only lifeline. Old farts like me remember 4k computers with NO disk drives, just paper tape and cards (and a tape drive with vacuum tubes in it), and we came from a generation that would tear the heads off a car engine and put a new set of valves in on a Saturday afternoon. Many of the youngsters just were not brought up in that culture, and futzing with a sewing machine that is older than the computer I just mentioned is a little out of their comfort zone, their not stupid, machinery was not in their culture. My wife can tear a sewing machine down and fix it better than I can (on the small ones) because they sewed all the time and made a lot of their clothes. We give sewing machines to our relative's kids (and our own) and she teaches them to use them, nobody is doing that much today, and there are no sewing classes in high school anymore. So telling anyone to buy a new machine with rock solid support on the first purchase is really doing them a favor. They will learn on that new machine, and the dealer (hopefully) will teach them what they need to know. Let them get something like a hobby machine on their second purchase.

Art

I've seen a lot of posts about selecting a first sewing machine. Most recommendations are to get the best machine from the best dealer and avoid problems.

I have a radical suggestion - get something used and cheap first. It's a lot more enjoyable to use a premium machine if you already have some experience with a not-so-good one for comparison. Or - you'd appreciate a Mercedes a lot more if you had a Volkswagen first, assuming you're buying your first car.

And if you have some troubles with a machine, you'll learn more about using, adjusting and fixing a machine. You'd appreciate the dealer support more, as well as the better machine if/when you upgrade.

It's nice to have a broad experience base. Trying out different machines is a fun way to get experience.

And this way you might wind up with multiple machines with different specialties, increasing your versatility.

Just my thoughts. My opinions are guaranteed to be worth at least twice what you pay for them!

Doug

[DougVL]

Our first computer had just a tape drive. Never did use it much.

My own personal first one was an "IBM PC --Compatible(?)-- with just one single-sided floppy drive. So I know what you mean.

I'm not talking about using inappropriate tools, like vise grips on lug nuts, just working my way up. Say from a one-arm lug wrench to a 4-way, and then to a air powered impact wrench. For which you also need a rather expensive compressor. That would be overkill for my two cars! (Of course, the easy response is that you can use the compressor for so many other things. But that's beside the point, and AFTER the big investment.)

Sure, if someone can't handle learning on their own and has to have their hand held, and doesn't even know how to sew, then they need a dealer who's a good teacher. And a good calling plan for their phone, because that dealer won't be local, and can't demonstrate hands-on.

I thought this forum was here to help people learn how to do stuff more than how to buy stuff.

I seems like a number of the people looking for machine info don't even know yet just what they're going to do with one. So there's two basic possibilities that I see:

One is to buy the absolute best machine that can do everything, and the other is to get something inexpensive and try it out to learn what you really want to do and what capabilities you really need. I'dLOVE to have a big machine that could stitch an inch of leather all day, but all I feel like I really need is a half inch foot lift and compound feed. (Looking at specs online, many listings don't even seem to describe the feed system very well. Makes it extra hard to shop that way - yup, need a good dealer!)

Being self-reliant is why I have sewing machines in the first place. If you've got $5000, instead of buying a machine, you can have someone else do a lot of work for you and have a lot of time for other things. Like designing, cutting out, and marketing.

Lots of us can't spend thousands on a hobby machine.

And like I said earlier, learning can be fun, satisfying and rewarding. If a machine user learns a lot about the machines, he can also become a repair man and make money at that too!

I'm certainly not against buying a great machine from a great dealer and getting great service. I'd love to do that myself. I just want to point out some alternatives, or alternate viewpoints. Not necessarily the best things, just different.

Finally, I wouldn't make anyone go this way, just suggest it as a possibility. Like don't rush into any purchase, either.

You have to know what you want in order to be able to get it!

Doug

Hi Doug,

An ok view as long as it is you going that direction. Many times on LW, we find folks that haven't sewn before and have LW as their only lifeline. Old farts like me remember 4k computers with NO disk drives, just paper tape and cards (and a tape drive with vacuum tubes in it), and we came from a generation that would tear the heads off a car engine and put a new set of valves in on a Saturday afternoon. Many of the youngsters just were not brought up in that culture, and futzing with a sewing machine that is older than the computer I just mentioned is a little out of their comfort zone, their not stupid, machinery was not in their culture. My wife can tear a sewing machine down and fix it better than I can (on the small ones) because they sewed all the time and made a lot of their clothes. We give sewing machines to our relative's kids (and our own) and she teaches them to use them, nobody is doing that much today, and there are no sewing classes in high school anymore. So telling anyone to buy a new machine with rock solid support on the first purchase is really doing them a favor. They will learn on that new machine, and the dealer (hopefully) will teach them what they need to know. Let them get something like a hobby machine on their second purchase.

Art

[Wizcrafts]

Hmmm. Ok. I am not a dealer and I do try to help newbies to sewing leather, as much as I can. Many of these good folks are long time crafters who have been hand sewing for many years. Maybe their art has been noticed by local gun shops, or clothiers and they are going to need to get into machine sewing to handle the expected volume of new business. Let's accept these as given variables.

var = "leather crafter"

var = "hand sewing exp only"

var = "commercial work lined up"

var = "needs industrial sewing machine"

Suppose that the only assistance we want to offer this person is that you should buy the cheapest industrial machine you can find on eBay, or in a hock shop, and learn to use it, break it and fix it again. When they finally know everything there is to know about getting an old P.O.S. machine to sew leather they will also come to realize that it was the wrong type of machine for their jobs. They will try in vain to learn to control the clutch on the motor, but will have little luck, with many runaway stitch lines. The needle will turn red hot and burn both the thread and the leather, cause the motor is too fast. The machine will not like the heavy nylon thread and large needle sizes that are recommended for heavier projects. Thread will bunch up under the leather and jam the bobbin case. In many cases the first time sewing machine buyer will purchase a machine on eBay because it is shown sewing leather. When our crafter tries to sew a 1/4" thick veg-tan leather belt or 5/16" pancake holster the machine may skip stitches, change stitch length, or fray the top thread. Nobody told him that he needed a beefed up, slowed down, compound feed walking or jumping foot machine, so he bought a straight stitch garment machine, dirt cheap, cause it said "sews leather."

Then, after a year of monkey futching around with this P.O.S. machine and ruining dozens of projects and dozens of feet of expensive leather, that would have made him or her some good money if properly sewn, he or she finally decides to call a dealer that frequents these forums and is himself a member here. The dealer takes the toll free call, listens to the rants and raves of the angry leathercrafter who has dinked around with the P.O.S. eBay or Craigslist machine long enough, and after calming him or her down, offers to sell them a brand new fully functional leather sewing machine at a reasonable price. This machine will be made to sew real leather, using heavy thread and large needles, into multiple layers without causing them to go out of alignment, often up to or in excess of 3/4". It will have a brand new servo motor and possibly a speed reducer, giving it incredible punching power at extremely slow and controllable speeds.

The fictitious person jumps up and down about the price of the new machine, but finally takes the plunge and buys one from the dealer. After the machine arrives and gets assembled, the fictitious crafter begins sewing with it. After a few phone calls (toll free) to the dealer for explanations about a few adjustment details, the crafter is happily sewing all manner of leather goods for sale; flawlessly. If something jams, he can call his dealer again, toll free, and once again he or she will receive all the assistance they need to get them sewing again. The dealer will supply him or her with quality thread, needles and bobbins. The leather goods that the new machine can sew will not be limited to 5/16" or 3/8" thickness, like they will be on a garment or upholstery machine. If a holster job with a thick filler comes along, up goes the pressor feet, in goes the 3/4" of leather, down goes the needle, in goes the #346 thread, and sewn becomes the holster.

Try that on an eBay or Craigslist garment or upholstery machine!

With all of that said and out of the way, the dealers on this forum are not out to gouge our members. They are trying to make an honest living selling decent machinery to a specialty market, and provide great service and support to their loyal customers. I have read a lot of comments from members who have purchased new sewing machines from our dealers and I don't recall seeing very many negative comments, if any. Nor do I recall reading about the new machines falling apart.

I myself have gone the route of buying garment machines, then "leather" machines (NOT), then heavy stitchers and finally, a needle and awls machine. I wasted thousands of dollars finding the right machines that can sew "real leather." I have spent countless hours trying to jerry-rig old machines to sew thicker material that they are designed to sew. I have bent and broken hundreds of needles, melted thread and burnt leather. My next sewing machine will be a brand new cylinder arm machine from one of our own dealers. I am through dinking around with old, P.O.S. machines.

[DougVL]

Wow!

It seems that so far no one likes my suggestion at all.

But all the objections are for the extreme opposite case to the one I proposed -

they all describe someone with immediate commercial business needs and no knowledge of machinery or interest in crafting for fun. Seems pretty far outside my parameters, and answering just for the sake of objection.

The original post that got me thinking about all this was someone who just makes holsters for a hobby and had no particular plans to go commercial at all.

Or maybe the forum is just for professionals, and I missed that fact somewhere.

Anyway, I for sure agree with 'Use the best tool for the job.' If time is money and the work is full time, then a new pro machine is the obvious choice. But there are other circumstances. I'm against wasting money, not time. (I don't get paid anything for my time!)

And opinions - just as valid and valuable as mine.

Doug

Hmmm. Ok. I am not a dealer and I do try to help newbies to sewing leather, as much as I can. Many of these good folks are long time crafters who have been hand sewing for many years. Maybe their art has been noticed by local gun shops, or clothiers and they are going to need to get into machine sewing to handle the expected volume of new business. Let's accept these as given variables.

var = "leather crafter"

var = "hand sewing exp only"

var = "commercial work lined up"

var = "needs industrial sewing machine"

Suppose that the only assistance we want to offer this person is that you should buy the cheapest industrial machine you can find on eBay, or in a hock shop, and learn to use it, break it and fix it again. When they finally know everything there is to know about getting an old P.O.S. machine to sew leather they will also come to realize that it was the wrong type of machine for their jobs. They will try in vain to learn to control the clutch on the motor, but will have little luck, with many runaway stitch lines. The needle will turn red hot and burn both the thread and the leather, cause the motor is too fast. The machine will not like the heavy nylon thread and large needle sizes that are recommended for heavier projects. Thread will bunch up under the leather and jam the bobbin case. In many cases the first time sewing machine buyer will purchase a machine on eBay because it is shown sewing leather. When our crafter tries to sew a 1/4" thick veg-tan leather belt or 5/16" pancake holster the machine may skip stitches, change stitch length, or fray the top thread. Nobody told him that he needed a beefed up, slowed down, compound feed walking or jumping foot machine, so he bought a straight stitch garment machine, dirt cheap, cause it said "sews leather."

Then, after a year of monkey futching around with this P.O.S. machine and ruining dozens of projects and dozens of feet of expensive leather, that would have made him or her some good money if properly sewn, he or she finally decides to call a dealer that frequents these forums and is himself a member here. The dealer takes the toll free call, listens to the rants and raves of the angry leathercrafter who has dinked around with the P.O.S. eBay or Craigslist machine long enough, and after calming him or her down, offers to sell them a brand new fully functional leather sewing machine at a reasonable price. This machine will be made to sew real leather, using heavy thread and large needles, into multiple layers without causing them to go out of alignment, often up to or in excess of 3/4". It will have a brand new servo motor and possibly a speed reducer, giving it incredible punching power at extremely slow and controllable speeds.

The fictitious person jumps up and down about the price of the new machine, but finally takes the plunge and buys one from the dealer. After the machine arrives and gets assembled, the fictitious crafter begins sewing with it. After a few phone calls (toll free) to the dealer for explanations about a few adjustment details, the crafter is happily sewing all manner of leather goods for sale; flawlessly. If something jams, he can call his dealer again, toll free, and once again he or she will receive all the assistance they need to get them sewing again. The dealer will supply him or her with quality thread, needles and bobbins. The leather goods that the new machine can sew will not be limited to 5/16" or 3/8" thickness, like they will be on a garment or upholstery machine. If a holster job with a thick filler comes along, up goes the pressor feet, in goes the 3/4" of leather, down goes the needle, in goes the #346 thread, and sewn becomes the holster.

Try that on an eBay or Craigslist garment or upholstery machine!

With all of that said and out of the way, the dealers on this forum are not out to gouge our members. They are trying to make an honest living selling decent machinery to a specialty market, and provide great service and support to their loyal customers. I have read a lot of comments from members who have purchased new sewing machines from our dealers and I don't recall seeing very many negative comments, if any. Nor do I recall reading about the new machines falling apart.

I myself have gone the route of buying garment machines, then "leather" machines (NOT), then heavy stitchers and finally, a needle and awls machine. I wasted thousands of dollars finding the right machines that can sew "real leather." I have spent countless hours trying to jerry-rig old machines to sew thicker material that they are designed to sew. I have bent and broken hundreds of needles, melted thread and burnt leather. My next sewing machine will be a brand new cylinder arm machine from one of our own dealers. I am through dinking around with old, P.O.S. machines.

[Ken Nelson]

Wow!

It seems that so far no one likes my suggestion at all.

But all the objections are for the extreme opposite case to the one I proposed -

they all describe someone with immediate commercial business needs and no knowledge of machinery or interest in crafting for fun. Seems pretty far outside my parameters, and answering just for the sake of objection.

The original post that got me thinking about all this was someone who just makes holsters for a hobby and had no particular plans to go commercial at all.

Or maybe the forum is just for professionals, and I missed that fact somewhere.

Anyway, I for sure agree with 'Use the best tool for the job.' If time is money and the work is full time, then a new pro machine is the obvious choice. But there are other circumstances. I'm against wasting money, not time. (I don't get paid anything for my time!)

And opinions - just as valid and valuable as mine.

Doug

I bought 2 heavy stitchers before I got one that would work for me. Part of my problem was I didn't know how to sew and the old machine, my first, was not easy to master and if I had known then what I do now, I would have changed some things and made it work for me. The next heavy stitcher was not an adequate, period. The third heavy stitcher was new, had a dealer to talk to and I still have it and it does a great job for me. First chap machine I bought was off of ebay and was a high speed drop feed, bad deal. Second was a real good walking foot, used, that had some issues from not taken care of properly and not serviced, Finally made it work for me but like to made me quit building chaps. I have had two new walking foot machines and have had terrific luck with both. I have a new Cobra that is wonderful. My advice to anyone would be: If you know how to sew and understand sewing machines, hunt a bargain if you don't mind the risk. If price is your main concern, and you don't have experience, then you probably will be better off buying a new or at least rebuilt machine from a dealer that specializes in leather sewing machines and has a reputation for service. There are several on this site that are very good guys. Just my 2 cents worth. Ken

[TwinOaks]

Wizcrafts, I didn't know you were watching and taking notes of my first sewing machine experience!!!

I tried the "buy cheap and make it work for you" route. A singer 66 just doesn't have enough ass to stitch together holsters, and hand wheeling it through two layers of pig lining leather just takes the fun right out of making wallet guts. I think Doug has a great perspective- if someone wants to learn to work on sewing machines. The very simple fact is it takes a particular set up for a machine to stitch leather. I have personally typed this several times in numerous topics: A heavy duty leather stitcher is a commercial machine that is modified (usually through speed reducer and motor changes) to sew leather. Yes, there are exceptions like The Boss- it was never designed as a high speed commercial stitcher.

Now, on to the premise that it's better to start small.. I have to agree to a point. Buying the 66 has made me realize something about sewing machines- you get what you pay for. My proof? I have a $51 sewing machine that's holding down a patch of carpet under my table that is just about useless for my hobby. And since I'm just a hobbiest at this point, I work with leather because I enjoy it. What I don't enjoy is working up a design, cutting out the pieces from my rapidly dwindling supply of leather, and getting madder than hell because the cheap tool I thought would work just chewed a long strip from the grain side because I had to adjust the presser foot tension too high so I could get a decent stitch. Lesson: Draw on the collective experience HERE, and buy a sewing machine that will do what I want and a little more, if I ever need it. Some mistakes need to be made to learn from them, and not getting enough machine was one I made. I won't make the mistake again. Hopefully, this topic (and others like it) will prevent new members from getting a piece of junk that falls short of their expectations and ruins an otherwise pleasant experience. What did I learn about the machine.......hmmmm, well, since I spent half my allotted 'leather time' trying to get the dang machine to work, and the other half clearing jams, I didn't have time to take it apart to see how it works. And I really don't care to. I'e already learned it won't do the job, so why would I want to spend more time on it? If it's something that works...that's reason enough to learn to maintain it.

A long time ago, in a thread that's far, far away, Art made a comment that I'll have to paraphrase :"Save up for a decent [stitching] machine. Hand sewing will help you save faster"

...and he's RIGHT!

If the portent of this topic was to extol the virtues of hand powered machines because they're simpler and less expensive than their cousins...well, pardon the rant. But the same lesson applies. Utilize the collective experience available here. The "I wanna try it" attitude may be an acceptable reason to buy less machine, but when several decades of experience says "get more machine to start with", at some point the perspective should be clear. There is a place for machines like the Boss, no doubt. There is nothing wrong with them, provided they do what the user wants. I don't see a Toro3K/Cobra class 3 machine as being particularly portable for use at the hunting lodge or for use in a wagon or calvacade. Similarly, I don't see a Boss being particularly useful for someone wanting to make a lot of lined belts in a relatively short amount of time.

Personally, I've all but quit making holsters because of the time it takes to stitch them by hand. The last one I made (tuckable IWB) I sold for a flat $50.....it's all the market would bear. I figure for just labor (including design and layout) I made about $9.50/hr, but that doesn't include the cost of materials - so much for profit margin. I'm saving up for one of the 16 inch arm machines because it will be much more pleasant to me to sit down and stitch a holster in minutes instead of hours. That time I save is infinitely more valuable than a bit of money spent on a machine that doesn't do what I want....

.but:

"Knowing I blew $75 bucks (singer 66 +shipping) for a POS ebay machine instead of just saving up and getting something good to start with: Priceless!!!"

[TwinOaks]

P.S. And I'm gonna spend the extra money up front this time to get "more machine" so that 2 months after getting a 9 inch arm machine I don't have to drop another $2000 to get more machine. It's easier to spend it once and be done- practice sewing machines at ebay values eventually add up to more than the cost of the right one.

[bruce johnson]

Doug,

I can agree with some of your premise - learn how the machine works and you can troubleshoot a lot of things yourself. My background is almost exactly what Art described. I started off with the romance of hand sewing everything. I started getting some orders, handsewed more to the point of tendonitis. Orders started coming and I needed a machine. At that time I had no experience with a sewing machine other than old metal well built home machines. They would not get the job done for what I needed - even a checkbook was pushing the limits. At that time a machine that could do most of what I needed was $5000. With no background in heavy machines, for me to go buy a used one was like someone who had never driven a car and only seen pictures to go to a car trader's lot. The Boss stitcher was out and at $1600 (then with no accessories) was the only thing in my budget. I figured out from that how a machine works - things like "OK that thread makes a loop there at the needle as it pulls up - neat, and that hook thing catches it". Then "by magic that thread goes all the way around the bobbin and pops up the other side". A few repairs and putting it together out of time taught me timing. I moved up through a shortlived ownership of a 440 and on to a used Adler 205. Motorized brought some new experience, it was a good solid machine but eventually I needed something with a different feed system and accesssory availability. Still the next machine up to do what I needed was a $5000 investment. At that point I was confident enough that I looked for a good used machine. They had some wear or wanted $4000 for them. I opted to drive on the top of the tread and bought new for another $1000.

A couple years later Artisan brought out the 3000 - motorized machine that had capacity and under $2000. That machine probably more than anything I have seen in my relatively short time in the leather business revolutionized things. It made sewing available at half the cost or less and several people had something they could justify. In the meantime, the generation of old timers is passing. Several of the old machines have been orphaned and parts aren't available even if a guy is handy with them. The shoe and general repair shops closed 15-20 years ago, the manufacturing trade is all but gone on any scale. Several of the used machines I see have been sitting idle for 20 years in somebody's garage or shed. Some may not have even been working when the old guy even shut the doors the last time. They would take some serious work to get them back to reliable. The hobbiest/second income guy usually doesn't have that kind of time or inclination to deal with it when they can buy a machine ready to go for a little over $2000.

[JLSleather]

Here's my thing, Doug and all ... if you can buy a decent machine that does what you need it to at a bargain price, then do it.

ONCE in the last year I paid more than I needed to ... couple of boys were gonna go clear the sidewalks at a freind's house I didn't have time to get to (she's 60-something, and stubborn, and WILL go shovel herself if you let her). Boys gave me a price that was HALF of reasonable, and I paid them the going rate anyway ... cuz they were kids and would later realize their price was WAY too cheap).

I recommend that you insist on seeing it work and getting the manual. Many of the ads I see proclaim how you can download the manual, or it's "easy to get". Fine ... then let them download it or "get" it, and produce it with the machine.

If you're buying a used vehicle, it's not the salesman's job to teach you to drive. But you'd still test drive it. You might even take it to a mechanic who knows more than you, and has all those fancy tools to diagnose it.

I DON'T own the bigger boat my wife said we need (she's right) because the guy looked all offended that I wanted to put it on the lake and SEE it work. Sorry ... fancy signs and shiny web sites don't mean anything here.

[Johanna]

Fifteen years ago a friend needed money and offered us a "Singer that would sew leather" for $400. We had a busy shop, and we snatched it up. It took awhile, but John got it humming, and he could sew anything on that machine as graceful as a ballerina. That old Singer is a mattress machine, and sews something like 750 stitches per minute. It scares the hell out me. After he died, I never messed with it. I always did enjoy sewing by hand.

Fast forward and I meet Jerry Zonis, the owner of Artisan. He sat me down at one of his machines and I was sewing leather like a pro in less han ten minutes. When we bought the Singer, a comparable machine to the Artisan one would have been around $5K. In John's experienced hands, the Singer worked just fine. I could have easily sewn my arm to a side of saddle skirting before he could have dialed 911. A complete idiot like me can thread an Artisan and sew- and to be fair, this is true of all the dealers- Artisan, Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew and Tippmann for sure- you can call them up and say "Hey, what's wrong here?" or send them a picture and they will answer you in understandable plain English. Jerry, Steve, Ryan & Bob Kovar, Ronnie and Bob Tippmann are all easy to talk to and they will tell you what you need to have to get the job done, and how to get things working if you mess up. I know all these guys, and they are knowledgeable and friendly.

So if the choice is to buy an old machine and tinker with it because you want to, great. But if you need to step up production in the shop and go to the next level, you can buy a brand new machine that suits your needs from a company that offers service after the sale for a lot less than you could 20 years ago. The Singer has a lovely 4 foot long work table that has a bunch of crap piled on it right now.

For novices like me, there is a lot to be said for speed reducer motors. Until I met one of them, a Tippmann Boss was the only machine I felt comfortable operating. Tippmans are reliable sturdy machines, but you may not want to pull the handle for every stitch. I've seen the Cobras and Artisans and Cowboys and Techsews sew through tough leather as sweet as you please. Go to a dealer or a tradeshow and test drive the new machines, talk to the dealers and be prepared to answer "What do you want to sew?"

If you want to play with some old machines, PM me and I will send you some names of members here who do that for a living- buy old machines and fix them up for resale. They are great guys, too, and if you get stuck finding parts, they will know where to find one. There are some hustlers out there, too. I can tell you who NOT to buy a used anything from.

DougVL, I think everyone here is pretty much saying the same thing- since new machines are affordable and dependable, there isn't any need to buy one to work on unless you want to. If you want to do that, it can be a fun hobby, just like fixing up old cars. If the leatherworker just wants to sew, he should call or visit a dealer and get several opinions before making a choice, just like he would if he were buying a new car.

Johanna

[DougVL]

Lots more interesting comments! And great ideas for new people to read. Especially the recounting of user's learning experiences. Those were sort of the point of my original posting

The statement "There is nothing wrong with them, provided they do what the user wants" made above says it the best of all. As a couple have said here, you don't always even know what you want. I was just suggesting a way to find out what you want, not how to make money fast. And I hoped to point out that there are amateurs who want to do leatherwork and just plain can't spend multiple thousands of dollars. If a machine can pay for itself, then the only reasonable thing to do is get the absolute best. My career has been in getting industrial machinery working and working well. Some included design for efficiency and for operator convenience. I have plenty of high quality equipment in my own home shop. But there are still a lot of things that just don't justify professional grade tools - things used only occasionally for light duty work. My first table saw was a light weight little benchtop model that used an 8 inch blade and a washing machine motor. It did good work, and I still have it. It's handy to be able to take outside or into the garage. I can't do that with the big, cast iron 12 inch one that's in my basement shop now.

So far every response here has been about using a sewing machine for producing income. Part of my premise was that this is not always the case, and responding to any inquirer with the answer that the only thing to get is the brand new, top of the line machine doesn't always help. Describe some alternatives, and maybe the reasons why the alternatives are less desirable.

I've done a fair amount of projects for myself, of light weight leather (like garment or upholstery weight) with an ordinary, ancient straight-stitch home sewing machine. Using a wedge point needle didn't make much difference, but I didn't know at the time, so I got some. The machine worked great and made just what I wanted. But I didn't try to make holsters or boots, or even knife sheaths with it.

Last year I found someone moving with very short notice and forced to sell a Singer 112W139. I'd kind of wanted a double needle machine for a few projects, mostly non-leather. For example, need a machine for sewing thick but soft, loose fabric. There's a clothing project or two of fleece, and 3 or 4 layers of that just won't fit under the presser foot of most machine. Including this one! Its foot lift is only about 1/4 inch. From reading specs on various 111 & 112 series machines, I had expected at least 3/8, and maybe even 1/2 inch. Oops. I didn't have time for research on this one - seller had only a day left. And the manual for this model doesn't include the spec for foot lift, although many of the Singer manuals do.

I found that a clutch motor is unusable for me. I want to make little things, with short seams and lots of corners and curves. For tarps or things with long, straight seams it would be fine. I put a huge pulley on it and slowed it down to about 1/3 of full speed and now it's not too bad. But until I can come up with some spare cash for a servo motor with needle positioning, I won't be using it much at all. If I can come up with a way to make money with it, then I could get the servo. I've considered trying to make boat covers with it - that's what the seller had originally intended. But that's a whole 'nother learning curve I haven't been ready to follow yet.

Someone here already mentioned downloading manuals. There is a huge number of them available from Singer, both operator's and parts books. And some service manuals. For those people who have an interest in having one, and for people wanting to know the specs and features of machines they can't see in person, it's a big help. Most of the Singer manuals describe the uses or products which that specific machine was designed for, which is also helpful.

I don't understand why so many responses seem to be about fixing broken machines. I only said that it helps ANY machine operator a LOT to understand how their machine works and just what it can and cannot do. Whether the machine is a stove, oven, mixer, radial arm saw, concrete compactor, sewing machine or dump truck. Especially a welder!

I also do not recommend buying used equipment through ebay. At nearly best, the seller is honest, but just doesn't know anything about what they're selling and can't give useful information to answer good questions. And of course, sewing machines aren't very practical to ship, either. I did buy one machine that way, my 29K51, though. It came heavily packed but still the bobbin winder got broken off.

A nice feature for a web site would be a comprehensive listing of machines suitable for leather, with both their capabilities and their limitations listed and described. I was looking at the Ferdco site and did see a listing of light, medium and heavy stitchers and their thickness capacity, and thread weights for some of them.. I'd like to see something that also included the type of feed, needle series and useable sizes, weight, needle-to-arm distance, round or flat bed, useable thread weights and needle sizes, etc. A WIKI somewhere would be nice, so it could be updated by anyone with information to add. Maybe the dealers would even participate and describe the differences in the special parts they use instead of the standard stock ones. For example, Ferdco says they start with a 440 frame casting and put in their own parts. On the other end of the scale, some other 440-based model will cost less but have all Chinese parts. Some machines are made in Taiwan and seem to be better quality but higher priced. Sorting all this out would be very helpful.

It's interesting to see how many responses to this posting have shown up this quickly. And it points out that apparently just about all the users here are professionals who depend on their machine(s) for a living. That wasn't my assumption in the beginning, and isn't the case for me. But it's interesting to learn, and find out how many people there are out there in cyberland who do leatherwork for money! I'd think it to be a rewarding career.

A couple more thoughts to toss in here - - - -

This posting was about picking a FIRST machine, with the idea that a progression to better is a good thing. (I did especially like JSLeather's posting here.)

And a fine, high-grade tool is a great pleasure to use, in its own right. I have a couple older Leica cameras that are just fabulous, even though not often used in this digital age.

DougVL

Fifteen years ago a friend needed money and offered us a "Singer that would sew leather" for $400. We had a busy shop, and we snatched it up. It took awhile, but John got it humming, and he could sew anything on that machine as graceful as a ballerina. That old Singer is a mattress machine, and sews something like 750 stitches per minute. It scares the hell out me. After he died, I never messed with it. I always did enjoy sewing by hand.

Fast forward and I meet Jerry Zonis, the owner of Artisan. He sat me down at one of his machines and I was sewing leather like a pro in less han ten minutes. When we bought the Singer, a comparable machine to the Artisan one would have been around $5K. In John's experienced hands, the Singer worked just fine. I could have easily sewn my arm to a side of saddle skirting before he could have dialed 911. A complete idiot like me can thread an Artisan and sew- and to be fair, this is true of all the dealers- Artisan, Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew and Tippmann for sure- you can call them up and say "Hey, what's wrong here?" or send them a picture and they will answer you in understandable plain English. Jerry, Steve, Ryan & Bob Kovar, Ronnie and Bob Tippmann are all easy to talk to and they will tell you what you need to have to get the job done, and how to get things working if you mess up. I know all these guys, and they are knowledgeable and friendly.

So if the choice is to buy an old machine and tinker with it because you want to, great. But if you need to step up production in the shop and go to the next level, you can buy a brand new machine that suits your needs from a company that offers service after the sale for a lot less than you could 20 years ago. The Singer has a lovely 4 foot long work table that has a bunch of crap piled on it right now.

For novices like me, there is a lot to be said for speed reducer motors. Until I met one of them, a Tippmann Boss was the only machine I felt comfortable operating. Tippmans are reliable sturdy machines, but you may not want to pull the handle for every stitch. I've seen the Cobras and Artisans and Cowboys and Techsews sew through tough leather as sweet as you please. Go to a dealer or a tradeshow and test drive the new machines, talk to the dealers and be prepared to answer "What do you want to sew?"

If you want to play with some old machines, PM me and I will send you some names of members here who do that for a living- buy old machines and fix them up for resale. They are great guys, too, and if you get stuck finding parts, they will know where to find one. There are some hustlers out there, too. I can tell you who NOT to buy a used anything from.

DougVL, I think everyone here is pretty much saying the same thing- since new machines are affordable and dependable, there isn't any need to buy one to work on unless you want to. If you want to do that, it can be a fun hobby, just like fixing up old cars. If the leatherworker just wants to sew, he should call or visit a dealer and get several opinions before making a choice, just like he would if he were buying a new car.

Johanna

[Wizcrafts]

I propose that the dealers here contact their parts and casing suppliers and see if they can come up with a portable walking foot machine that is already beefed up and modified to sew real leather, up to 3/8" - without needing to add another flywheel, or grind the teeth off of the pressor feet. Such a machine would be a great first machine for casual leathercrafters or those attending flea markets and shows. Make no more than 50 pounds in a carrying case and sell it for under $500 and you'd have a winner, in my opinion.

[Art]

You of course want compound feed too.

That would be a very popular machine. When I can get the pig to fly, I'll have him bring one right over to you. The three main reasons are:

50 lbs.

$500

Plenty of power.

Ain't gonna happen.

There isn't enough margin (or any), and there isn't enough market.

Art

I propose that the dealers here contact their parts and casing suppliers and see if they can come up with a portable walking foot machine that is already beefed up and modified to sew real leather, up to 3/8" - without needing to add another flywheel, or grind the teeth off of the pressor feet. Such a machine would be a great first machine for casual leathercrafters or those attending flea markets and shows. Make no more than 50 pounds in a carrying case and sell it for under $500 and you'd have a winner, in my opinion.

[bruce johnson]

Doug,

Good points and going back to your original post - the more commonly available used machines will sew leather on some scale. It is a different deal sewing veg tan vs. garment leather and I think that is the dividing line between readily available cheap machines. The average hobbyist may be doing some chaps or garment leather work and those Singers in several models will sure enough work. Once you get into carving on vegtan - belts, checkbooks, planners, sheaths, etc - the number of used lower cost machines drops. This seems to be the most common application that most of the people asking on this forum are doing. I'd expect that is why you got some of the repsonses you did. The Adler flatbeds come to mind as not being all that rare and doing the job, and sometimes can be bought pretty right. Condition is the key, and parts are a little pricey sometimes. Get into much heavier and the bigger Adlers, Singer 7s, needle and awl machines, and those oldies are the used machines that fit. The problem is finding one and finding parts and advice. I may be wrong here, but I think the closest industrial sewing machine repair guy with any reputation is 80 miles away from me.

There may be other trading boards, but Ferdco seems like it is one of the more visited ones. That's how I got my Adler sold - lots of calls the first week and I took the offer from the guy who would pick it up. Still most of the stuff listed there is not cheap for the casual user.

When I was trading up from the Boss to a powered machine I called Ferdco from the ad in the back of Western Horseman and got a 440 for no other reason than it was the cheapest powered machine sold. It was not the right machine for me - starting with the speed, and the feeding mechanism. I just called and ordered it - didn't know enough to ask the right questions. When it wasn't doing what I needed a machine for, you are right with the first post- I was ready to appreciate a better one. I called Ron at Ferdco and got my first lesson. That was long enough ago, that hobbyists just didn't buy leather machines from dealers to any extent. When someone called a dealer, they already had experience and knew what they wanted. Ron took a lot of time and went over machine types, feed, speed, thread size, and tables with me. He offered to trade the 440 head for a used Adler 205-64 head, sent along a smaller pulley for the motor (servos were pricey then, not $150 or whatever they are now), and made the deal work for both of us. I appreciated that and remain a loyal customer.

I asked him why someone hadn't written an article on sewing machine basics for someone like me in LCSJ. It had been offered and declined. The journal is kind of funny about suppliers or dealers writing articles, or mention of some specifics by some authors. It is a business decision for them, they don't want to offend other advertisers. As far as a wiki-type deal on sewing machines - great. I'd sure like to see it. As it stands right now, this forum is probably as close as it gets - dealers and users, full time makers and hobbyists.

Wiz,

I don't know of anyone who has bought the Singer 550, but would be interested. The local sewing machine and vaccum shop had one set up a couple years ago. The owner had me sit down and run it. It did sew some pretty hard skirting leather, and seemed to be happy doing it. The limiting factor is probably thread size.

[Wizcrafts]

You of course want compound feed too.

That would be a very popular machine. When I can get the pig to fly, I'll have him bring one right over to you. The three main reasons are:

50 lbs.

$500

Plenty of power.

Ain't gonna happen.

There isn't enough margin (or any), and there isn't enough market.

Art

They are already out there Art. Many sewing machine vendors are selling unmodified portable walking foot machines now for well under $400. The buyers can then purchase a Monster Wheel from SailRite for about $125, plus postage and it adds the punching power and smooth slow speed needed to sew veg-tan projects up to about 3/8" - after grinding the bottom teeth off the pressor feet. My idea was that perhaps some of our dealers could get these machines modified at the factory to sew leather, rather than vinyl. They would have smooth bottom pressor feet (to avoid marking the top of the leather), heavier top tension and pressure bar springs, a slightly heavier take-up lever and a wider, heavier flywheel already installed.

Unmodified, these machines now weigh 41 pounds, in the carrying case. Add another 9 pounds for a larger, heavier flywheel (which slows the top speed & increases torque) and you've got a 50 pound mini workhorse, perfect for shows, flea markets and hobby sewers.

They are not triple feed, but double feed machines. The outer pressor foot moves in time with the feed dogs. This is still better than a straight stitch machine. Having the heavier springs, flywheels and take-up parts made and pre-installed at the same factory that produces those machines would be cheaper than purchasing a standard mini walker and then purchasing or modifying those additional parts, later on.

There was a discussion on this very forum where some members have increased the height of the pressor feet to sew thicker leather with heavier thread than the standard portable machine can manage. Others have discussed how adding a Monster Wheel allowed them to sew thick leather. This could be done at the factory for a lot less cost, making it possible to sell already modified machines suitable for hobbyists and traveling leathercrafters lacking the budget for a full size industrial machine.

Just a thought.

NB: These suggestions and ramblings are aimed at selling a decent portable machine to a leather crafter who wants to get into sewing, at home or on location, but lacks the budget to move into a full-fledged heavy leather sewing machine. It is a cost-effective alternative to a pull lever portable stitcher and easier to use for long runs. There have been quite a few inquiries made on this forum, over the last few months, for machines capable of sewing up to 3/8" of real leather, easily controllable, at about the $500 price point.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Wizcrafts

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz,

I don't know of anyone who has bought the Singer 550, but would be interested. The local sewing machine and vaccum shop had one set up a couple years ago. The owner had me sit down and run it. It did sew some pretty hard skirting leather, and seemed to be happy doing it. The limiting factor is probably thread size.

The Singer 550 is a home sewing machine, not an industrial model. You will need an industrial sewing machine that was designed to handle and feed heavier thread, that uses larger needles and has a separate motor capable of driving the needle/thread through heavy leather. It will need either a clutch or servo motor, rated at about 400 watts, or more. The exception is the SewPro 500GR that is rated at about 300 watts, but has a built-in 2:1 speed reducer and a 50 mm pulley. I have one hooked up under my table, driving my National 300N walking foot machine. This setup can sew through 7/16" of belt leather, with #207 thread and a #24 leather point needle.

[CowboyBob]

Well I might as well put in my $.02 ,we have been selling these portable machines w/a walking foot to alot of inmates for sewing leather crafts,in alot of the prisons they aren't allowed to have a industrial machine w/a large table so these work for them they come in 7 & 9" arm length w/straight stich & zig-zag.

They have a 1.5 amp motor vs a 1 amp motor on a reg home machine,they also have a cog tooth belts,like a timing belt on a car that doesn't slip.

Along with a little speed reducer that give it the punching power.

We even have an old machine (mini-walker)we use as a rental for people to sew upholstery with.Very easy to handle for them too!

They aren't the greatest or smoothest machine I've ever ran BUT they get the job done @ a low price.

Bob

[Art]

[quote name=Wizcrafts' date='13 May 2010 - 06:19 PM'

Well Wiz,

If it is such a great idea, why not do it. Lets see you come up with and support a Sailrite clone with monster wheel, 1.5 amp motor, smooth feet, heavier springs, and everything you want for under $500 (your own words). Sounds good, I'll take the first one, or honest to ghod, I'd probably buy the same thing from Sailrite for $649,

http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp03447-0758.html

because I know they can support it. After you've eaten a few of the returns and go out of business, I'll still be using the Sailrite. The extra margin of profit means the company stays in business, has parts, supports their product. One of the caveats is to never develop anything new out of China, someone will be marketing your product before you get the first one to sell. Even if developed here, there is a very short window of opportunity before someone has knocked it off.

BTW, Artisan tried to sell a Sailrite clone a few years back, had it at one of the IFoLG shows. Obviously didn't work for them, never seen it again. When the companies like Allbrands get in the picture, you can't expect many dealers to carry a product like that unless they can add value to the picture, and of course charge for it.

Art

timestamp='1273789151' post='154364]

They are already out there Art. Many sewing machine vendors are selling unmodified portable walking foot machines now for well under $400. The buyers can then purchase a Monster Wheel from SailRite for about $125, plus postage and it adds the punching power and smooth slow speed needed to sew veg-tan projects up to about 3/8" - after grinding the bottom teeth off the pressor feet. My idea was that perhaps some of our dealers could get these machines modified at the factory to sew leather, rather than vinyl. They would have smooth bottom pressor feet (to avoid marking the top of the leather), heavier top tension and pressure bar springs, a slightly heavier take-up lever and a wider, heavier flywheel already installed.

Unmodified, these machines now weigh 41 pounds, in the carrying case. Add another 9 pounds for a larger, heavier flywheel (which slows the top speed & increases torque) and you've got a 50 pound mini workhorse, perfect for shows, flea markets and hobby sewers.

They are not triple feed, but double feed machines. The outer pressor foot moves in time with the feed dogs. This is still better than a straight stitch machine. Having the heavier springs, flywheels and take-up parts made and pre-installed at the same factory that produces those machines would be cheaper than purchasing a standard mini walker and then purchasing or modifying those additional parts, later on.

There was a discussion on this very forum where some members have increased the height of the pressor feet to sew thicker leather with heavier thread than the standard portable machine can manage. Others have discussed how adding a Monster Wheel allowed them to sew thick leather. This could be done at the factory for a lot less cost, making it possible to sell already modified machines suitable for hobbyists and traveling leathercrafters lacking the budget for a full size industrial machine.

Just a thought.

NB: These suggestions and ramblings are aimed at selling a decent portable machine to a leather crafter who wants to get into sewing, at home or on location, but lacks the budget to move into a full-fledged heavy leather sewing machine. It is a cost-effective alternative to a pull lever portable stitcher and easier to use for long runs. There have been quite a few inquiries made on this forum, over the last few months, for machines capable of sewing up to 3/8" of real leather, easily controllable, at about the $500 price point.

Well Wiz,

If it is such a great idea, why not do it. Lets see you come up with and support a Sailrite clone with monster wheel, 1.5 amp motor, smooth feet, heavier springs, and everything you want for under $500 (your own words). Sounds good, I'll take the first one, or honest to ghod, I'd probably buy the same thing from Sailrite for $649,

http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp03447-0758.html

because I know they can support it. After you've eaten a few of the returns and go out of business, I'll still be using the Sailrite. The extra margin of profit means the company stays in business, has parts, supports their product. One of the caveats is to never develop anything new out of China, someone will be marketing your product before you get the first one to sell. Even if developed here, there is a very short window of opportunity before someone has knocked it off.

BTW, Artisan tried to sell a Sailrite clone a few years back, had it at one of the IFoLG shows. Obviously didn't work for them, never seen it again. When the companies like Allbrands get in the picture, you can't expect many dealers to carry a product like that unless they can add value to the picture, and of course charge for it.

Art

[quote name=Wizcrafts' date='13 May 2010 - 06:19 PM'

timestamp='1273789151' post='154364]

They are already out there Art. Many sewing machine vendors are selling unmodified portable walking foot machines now for well under $400. The buyers can then purchase a Monster Wheel from SailRite for about $125, plus postage and it adds the punching power and smooth slow speed needed to sew veg-tan projects up to about 3/8" - after grinding the bottom teeth off the pressor feet. My idea was that perhaps some of our dealers could get these machines modified at the factory to sew leather, rather than vinyl. They would have smooth bottom pressor feet (to avoid marking the top of the leather), heavier top tension and pressure bar springs, a slightly heavier take-up lever and a wider, heavier flywheel already installed.

Unmodified, these machines now weigh 41 pounds, in the carrying case. Add another 9 pounds for a larger, heavier flywheel (which slows the top speed & increases torque) and you've got a 50 pound mini workhorse, perfect for shows, flea markets and hobby sewers.

They are not triple feed, but double feed machines. The outer pressor foot moves in time with the feed dogs. This is still better than a straight stitch machine. Having the heavier springs, flywheels and take-up parts made and pre-installed at the same factory that produces those machines would be cheaper than purchasing a standard mini walker and then purchasing or modifying those additional parts, later on.

There was a discussion on this very forum where some members have increased the height of the pressor feet to sew thicker leather with heavier thread than the standard portable machine can manage. Others have discussed how adding a Monster Wheel allowed them to sew thick leather. This could be done at the factory for a lot less cost, making it possible to sell already modified machines suitable for hobbyists and traveling leathercrafters lacking the budget for a full size industrial machine.

Just a thought.

NB: These suggestions and ramblings are aimed at selling a decent portable machine to a leather crafter who wants to get into sewing, at home or on location, but lacks the budget to move into a full-fledged heavy leather sewing machine. It is a cost-effective alternative to a pull lever portable stitcher and easier to use for long runs. There have been quite a few inquiries made on this forum, over the last few months, for machines capable of sewing up to 3/8" of real leather, easily controllable, at about the $500 price point.

[Wizcrafts]

Well Wiz,

If it is such a great idea, why not do it. Lets see you come up with and support a Sailrite clone with monster wheel, 1.5 amp motor, smooth feet, heavier springs, and everything you want for under $500 (your own words). Sounds good, I'll take the first one, or honest to ghod, I'd probably buy the same thing from Sailrite for $649,

http://www.allbrands...03447-0758.html

Art

Art;

First of all, the $649 price at AB is for the basic setup version of the machine.

Does not include Metal Monster Wheel, Kick Stand to stabilize case bottom, 1" Binder Swing Type, and Light included in SR-Loaded Accessory Pack for over $200 More.

Now you are looking at an $849.00 machine.

Anyway, a few of our dealers already carry a portable machine that can be beefed up upon request. They are being sold to all kinds of users, from inmates to upholsters, to carpet installers. My idea was to have a complete custom package available for modifying these machines into a leather capable stitcher, within their limitations. You and I don't need such a machine since we are already equipped with serious equipment. But, a newbie to sewing leather projects, with a limited budget, would benefit from this type of machine, as a first leather capable sewing machine. Once the person outgrows it he or she will probably move up to a cylinder arm compound feed heavy stitcher.

Are we done arguing now?

[Art]

Well no,

You are asking dealers to get new castings made and develop a new machine, that may be going a little far. Taking a 126 and hanging a few extra parts on it is a little more reasonable.

Artisan tried, it didn't go anywhere, now you want someone else to join this? Like I said, go ahead, put YOUR MONEY in it and then talk, the leather community may support you....or not.

The only reason to do something like this is the expectation of reward. Is altruism enough of a reward for this? Not when it has to feed your family.

Someone can probably make your dream machine for "less than $500", will he sell enough to make it worthwhile? Who knows. That's why I encourage you to undertake or back this venture.

You are the one telling everyone what they should do, so show us.

Art

Are we done arguing now?

[Wizcrafts]

Well no,

You are asking dealers to get new castings made and develop a new machine, that may be going a little far. Taking a 126 and hanging a few extra parts on it is a little more reasonable.

Artisan tried, it didn't go anywhere, now you want someone else to join this? Like I said, go ahead, put YOUR MONEY in it and then talk, the leather community may support you....or not.

The only reason to do something like this is the expectation of reward. Is altruism enough of a reward for this? Not when it has to feed your family.

Someone can probably make your dream machine for "less than $500", will he sell enough to make it worthwhile? Who knows. That's why I encourage you to undertake or back this venture.

You are the one telling everyone what they should do, so show us.

Art

What dream machine? I was talking about a portable WF machine that can sew up to 3/8" of leather without bogging down or breaking parts. The $500 price was off the top of my head, not etched in stone. I am not interested in becoming a sewing machine builder or importer, nor do I have any money to invest in such a venture.

Had I known that my making a suggestion for an intermediate level machine for new sewers was going to trigger such a backlash, I never would have posted it. I didn't think I was telling anyone what to do. A simple "it's not cost effective" would have sufficed, but you are making this into a big deal.

I have no wish to continue this argument with you Art. I'm sorry I ever brought it up.

[DougVL]

I'm sorry I ever brought it up.

Wiz -

Don't be sorry!

You have just the right idea! And it didn't sound to ME like you proposed a whole new machine with new castings. Just modify the Sailrite-type mini-walker. Excellent idea!

Several years ago I bought a Singer 20U33 new from an importer/dealer in California. They modified it by mounting a home-machine motor on it to make it portable, and put it in a carrying case. It was pretty nice, but ran a bit fast. I happened to find some old parts in my junk box, though. An old, broken bread machine provided a large, toothed-belt pulley and belt and I also somehow happened to have a small toothed pulley that fit the machine motor. I drilled holes in the pulley and the original pulley on the machine and bolted them together. It cut the speed roughly in half, and doubled the torque. Really sweet.

Now my point in all that was that it might not require a big, heavy cast flywheel. The large toothed pulley by itself really added a lot of power. It might be pretty simple to add one of those big pulleys and a longer belt to one of sewmun's portable walkers. I thought I'd seen smooth feet for them in Sailrite's catalog, so I just checked on their website. They have a leather foot for the zig-zag and one for the straight stitch. At $33 each. So the main thing it would take is finding a suitable, easy-to-mount pulley. Sailrite has belts for $10 and $12.

Anyway, it seems like a pretty do-able project. Good idea!

Doug

Edited May 14, 2010 by DougVL

[Art]

Careful, I've had some folks that have had problems with Sailrite feet on the 126. I'd like to hear if anyone has actually used them.

One of the advances that should be pursued is the SCR motor/controller. They have very respectable power at almost crawling speeds. More expensive yes, but you wouldn't need the monster wheel.

Art

I thought I'd seen smooth feet for them in Sailrite's catalog, so I just checked on their website. They have a leather foot for the zig-zag and one for the straight stitch. At $33 each. So the main thing it would take is finding a suitable, easy-to-mount pulley. Sailrite has belts for $10 and $12.

Anyway, it seems like a pretty do-able project. Good idea!

Doug