Kingmax Vs Artisan Vs Cobra...

[Slickbald]

At a visit to our local industrial sewing supply house for thread, I inquire about Artisan machines. I'm told with no lack of certainty that the Kingmax brand is the actual maker, and Artisan (and I suspect Cobra) are marketers. The same way most tools are made in the same building, by the same company, and marketed through (ordered and sold by) Skill/Dewalt, Grizzly, Milwalkee, etc. Anyone that has worked in high tech knows about contract manufacturing and re-branding.

The Toro-4000 and Cobra Class 4, are the same machine as the Kingmax GA441 (manufactures brand). The only real difference is the table style and a couple of bells and whistles. I'm told they are less expensive in the Kingmax brand and will confirm when the quote comes in tomorrow.

The question: Does any one have experience with the Kingmax brand? At this point it comes down to customer service and price; love some opinions of any brands of this level stitcher. Thanks!

Chris

Edited June 15, 2010 by Slickbald

[Art]

Someone is feeding you a load of crud. The heads for the Artisan 4000 and Cobra Class 4 are made by Zhiqiang Sewing Machine Company, Hebei, China. Zhiqiang does put their own label on their product for the Asian trade, it is the Zhigong grand extra heavy duty lock stitch sewing machine series, Zhigong being the blue and white label that is plastered on the front of the head. The heads are custom manufactured for customers like Artisan and Cobra and are a little different. I don't know where the Kingmax comes from, but I would find out before I bought one.

Both Cobra and Artisan also do about 4 to 8 hours additional work modifying these machines for leatherwork. They also replace or modify several parts in addition to checking the machine to make sure it is right. Quite often it is not and has to be repaired or adjusted.

Art

At a visit to our local industrial sewing supply house for thread, I inquire about Artisan machines. I'm told with no lack of certainty that the Kingmax brand is the actual maker, and Artisan (and I suspect Cobra) are marketers. The same way most tools are made in the same building, by the same company, and marketed through (ordered and sold by) Skill/Dewalt, Grizzly, Milwalkee, etc. Anyone that has worked in high tech knows about contract manufacturing and re-branding.

The Toro-4000 and Cobra Class 4, are the same machine as the Kingmax GA441 (manufactures brand). The only real difference is the table style and a couple of bells and whistles. I'm told they are less expensive in the Kingmax brand and will confirm when the quote comes in tomorrow.

The question: Does any one have experience with the Kingmax brand? At this point it comes down to customer service and price; love some opinions of any brands of this level stitcher. Thanks!

Chris

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I don't know where the Kingmax comes from, but I would find out before I bought one.

Both Cobra and Artisan also do about 4 to 8 hours additional work modifying these machines for leatherwork. They also replace or modify several parts in addition to checking the machine to make sure it is right. Quite often it is not and has to be repaired or adjusted.

Art

Kingmax Industrial Sewing Machines come from Deko Corporation/Dongsheng Sewing Machines Company, Ltd., web site Kingmax

Oh, and it's more like It's rare that a machine is setup or adjusted properly. The excitement of a perceived good price will quickly disappear soon after you find out what shows up after the machine arrives without proper setup. Not to mention the fact that there is also a value to having the confidence and support of a domestic dealer.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Slickbald]

Thank you both! The info came from the Kingmax dealer in Denver, and I came here for just this reason! (I don't trust salesmen!) They do look identical on the their web sites.

My main anxiety with this type of machine is my belief that I'll spend as much time working on it as using it, or be down while it's "in the shop" as it were. I built production equipment for 15 years and am darn tired of dinking with them frankly. I'm looking for dependability, dependability, and dependability; quality stitching assumed equal between the brands.

Cobra Steve is rumored to be calling me to discuss, but I would still like opinions on any either of the two brands here if anyone is willing...

This is an end of year purchase, I have time to pick and choose! Thanks again!

[Wizcrafts]

Thank you both! The info came from the Kingmax dealer in Denver, and I came here for just this reason! (I don't trust salesmen!) They do look identical on the their web sites.

My main anxiety with this type of machine is my belief that I'll spend as much time working on it as using it, or be down while it's "in the shop" as it were. I built production equipment for 15 years and am darn tired of dinking with them frankly. I'm looking for dependability, dependability, and dependability; quality stitching assumed equal between the brands.

Cobra Steve is rumored to be calling me to discuss, but I would still like opinions on any either of the two brands here if anyone is willing...

This is an end of year purchase, I have time to pick and choose! Thanks again!

I'm glad you are open to our opinions, which are very strong on this forum. Most of the pros here have worked their way up through many sewing machines to get to where we are today. While we cannot decide what you should do with your own money we can offer learned advice.

My advice is to go with a Cobra, Cowboy, or Artisan long arm 441 clone. I personally think that the best choice would be between the first two, as I know the dealers personally and have spoken to both about their machines. You will definitely get more than your money's worth from our member dealers. They are available personally to answer any questions you have and to fix any mechanical problems that may arise. The Cobra and Cowboy line of machines are custom built to leather-sewing specifications for the US dealers who promote them. Additions are made when they are unpacked, then they are adjusted, mated to a motor/table and sewn off.

There is a big difference between a stock 441 type machine and a specially setup leather stitcher. Our dealers install special leather and harness stitching pressor feet, guides and throat plates, plus they make proper adjustments to the clearances inside the machine. A leather sewing machine has to endure a tremendous amount of pounding, as huge needles and thread penetrate 3/4" of often hard leather.

I hope this helps.

[Deb59]

I'm glad you are open to our opinions, which are very strong on this forum. Most of the pros here have worked their way up through many sewing machines to get to where we are today. While we cannot decide what you should do with your own money we can offer learned advice.

My advice is to go with a Cobra, Cowboy, or Artisan long arm 441 clone. I personally think that the best choice would be between the first two, as I know the dealers personally and have spoken to both about their machines. You will definitely get more than your money's worth from our member dealers. They are available personally to answer any questions you have and to fix any mechanical problems that may arise. The Cobra and Cowboy line of machines are custom built to leather-sewing specifications for the US dealers who promote them. Additions are made when they are unpacked, then they are adjusted, mated to a motor/table and sewn off.

There is a big difference between a stock 441 type machine and a specially setup leather stitcher. Our dealers install special leather and harness stitching pressor feet, guides and throat plates, plus they make proper adjustments to the clearances inside the machine. A leather sewing machine has to endure a tremendous amount of pounding, as huge needles and thread penetrate 3/4" of often hard leather.

I hope this helps.

I just got a Cobra Class 4 in about 2 weeks ago. It came with very little setup to do. I made a couple of calls to Steve, one of them he was at a community carnival with his family and even though I offered to call back at another time, he took time out from his family to talk to a cusomer and answer a question. The machine is set up and is sewing like it's name a..."Dream Machine". I had been kicking around what machine to purchase for several years. I had it narrowed down to either a Cowboy or an Artisan and was leaning towards the Artisan at the Fort Worth Show I attended. Steve was working for them at the time, he answered all my questions, and you could tell he knew what he was talking about with machines, not what you wanted to hear to make a sale. I started saving and when Cobra entered the picture with Steve behind it - I knew what machine I would be purchasing. Customer Service and support are a major factor to consider when making your decision. I know several people who have Artisans and love them. I don't think you could go wrong with any one of the 3 - Cobra, Cowboy, or Artisan. Talk to them all and see who you feel the most comfortable with asking questions.

[dbusarow]

I also got a Cobra 4 2 weeks ago. Hardest part of setup was carrying the head in and bolting it to the stand.

I had never use a leather sewing machine before. It worked fine right off the bat.

Of course as soon as I changed a couple of things while experimenting and managed to mess up the threading on top of it it developed problems. Still sewed, just not as well. 15 minute call to Steve sorted it out.

Worth the few extra dollars, no doubt.

Dan

[DuaneBallard]

I also got a Cobra 4 2 weeks ago. Hardest part of setup was carrying the head in and bolting it to the stand.

I had never use a leather sewing machine before. It worked fine right off the bat.

Of course as soon as I changed a couple of things while experimenting and managed to mess up the threading on top of it it developed problems. Still sewed, just not as well. 15 minute call to Steve sorted it out.

Worth the few extra dollars, no doubt.

Dan

Easily the nicest sewing machine I've ever used. Steve is a class act. His work, word, and machines are second to none.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I'm glad you are open to our opinions, which are very strong on this forum.

That's a nice way to put things

[Slickbald]

I just got the quote on the Kingmax 441... $100 MORE than the Cobra list! ROTFL!

I'm way to opinionated to take most other opinions personally. Experience is what it is, and everyone has their own.

I spoke with Steve a great deal and discovered our worlds were pretty small. He has me sold on the Cobra (mostly he and you all have me sold on STEVE!) I'll likely be getting one at the Southwest Show in October, cash flow not withstanding!

Thank you all for your opinions and recommendations!