Making Production Runs Instead Of Taking Orders

[Shorts]

This method is crossing my mind as I read customer questions and communication. Seems people just don't read or look for the information on the website. This morning I woke up with a real short fuse which may be motivating this idea.

There are pros and cons to this method compared to taking individual orders. I'm not clueless as to what some are but I'd like to hear some discussion on the topic. There may be something I have not considered and new light may be shed.

So what do you think of making production runs vs taking individual orders?

[NoahL]

This method is crossing my mind as I read customer questions and communication. Seems people just don't read or look for the information on the website. This morning I woke up with a real short fuse which may be motivating this idea.

There are pros and cons to this method compared to taking individual orders. I'm not clueless as to what some are but I'd like to hear some discussion on the topic. There may be something I have not considered and new light may be shed.

So what do you think of making production runs vs taking individual orders?

Well, I don't know about for leatherwork, but I know a few knifemakers and some do individual orders and some do production runs and some dabble in both. The main issue that I've seen with the people doing production runs is when something happens where they need to replace or repair something they've made (usually as part of their guarantee policy) and they simply don't have time because they schedule it after an entire run, rather than an individual order. Aside from that, I think people generally expect the prices to go down when things are done in production runs as opposed to individual orders, simply because you're going to be making the exact same thing over and over again and logic says that you will make them faster the more you make them. Just some thoughts

[particle]

I had some family members suggest this - make up 5 or 10 extra holsters and sell them on the website. Or if I make a particular holster for a customer, go ahead and make 2 instead of just 1. My thoughts? I'm already "X" weeks behind - if I did that, I'd be "X" x 2 in the hole, just making my customers wait even longer. I guess the difference with this and what what you may be considering is that it sounds like you'd stop taking orders all together, and just sell in-stock items on your website. Thus, no actual wait times for customers.

The downside I'd see here is forecasting what customers will want - what will sell, and what won't. You can sell 1911 holsters all day long, so would you even mess with anything else? I'm sure you've made more than enough holsters to know what you can sell reliably.

Another thing I could see is the perception of decreased value for an 'off-the-shelf' product. People may be willing to pay your current prices for in-stock holsters, but if there is nothing custom about it any more (can't select the color & thread combination, etc.), they may think "wow, I can buy a holster 'just like that' for half that price at _____'s." I have a few in-stock holsters on my site. My wife wanted to charge full-price for them, but as I suspected, they're not moving as quickly as we'd like. The right buyer might be out there that wants a holster just like you have already in stock, but there are a whole lot more out there that want a variation of it to suit their tastes.

I say it's worth a shot - but there is something comforting about knowing I have "X" weeks worth of holster orders in case anything major happens (job loss, car breaks down and I have to make major repairs, etc.).

[dirtclod]

Every time i tried something like that it always backfired. I would have so many of this or that made up and their always the wrong color or wrong design when i get a order and it takes forever to get rid of them.

But if you go to a show or something along those lines you need to have several of every thing made up. So it's durned of if ya do and durend if ya don't. Right now i have a box of things made up that i didn't sell at the show and a order for a couple of things and bet i don't have the color or design they want.

John

[TwinOaks]

Good topic, as it's one of the things I'll be facing in the (hopefully soon) future. I'd suggest a compromise of the two. Take your best sellers, top 3 or 5, and do about half of the holster. Go ahead and cut the patterns, lay out the stitch lines, and stop. This puts you several steps ahead on the construction, but still allows for customization. Leave little things like color and attachment methods for the customer to decide, so all you have to do is complete construction and apply the finish.

[abn]

Good topic, as it's one of the things I'll be facing in the (hopefully soon) future. I'd suggest a compromise of the two. Take your best sellers, top 3 or 5, and do about half of the holster. Go ahead and cut the patterns, lay out the stitch lines, and stop. This puts you several steps ahead on the construction, but still allows for customization. Leave little things like color and attachment methods for the customer to decide, so all you have to do is complete construction and apply the finish.

I think there's a lot of wisdom in Mike's advice. Kind of a "middle-of-the-road" approach.

[Lobo]

I am now making 6 basic holster designs with about 4 available options and 4 finish colors, available for about 90 different handgun models/variations. Depending on how you chase the math, this comes out to about 10,000 possible variations.

I am averaging 20 to 30 holsters per week plus pouches, belts, etc, for a total production of 30 to 40 pieces weekly. Everything is made to fill existing orders. I complete 3 production runs weekly of about 10 to 12 items in each.

A worksheet accompanies each piece through each function (cutting, assembly, stitching, edge finish, forming, dying, oiling, burnishing, finishing, hardware, packaging) and I try to make a point of reviewing the worksheet for each piece at every step. However, I have found that I still make mistakes. Customer orders left-hand but I cut, assemble, and stitch for right-hand. Customer requests lining but I get to forming and notice that I didn't install lining. Lots of ways for an old guy to screw up, especially when my mind goes into cruise control mode for a few hours.

So, I always have a few on hand cut and ready to assemble, assembled and ready to stitch, stitched and ready to form, etc, etc, etc. I also have a few that make it all the way through the process before I catch my mistake. Once in a great while I will send out an order and the customer finds that I omitted a requested option, etc. Two or three times per year a customer takes advantage of my no-questions-asked return policy on standard production items returned in unused condition, and once in a while a customer will abuse that policy by returning an item with obvious signs of use. I once had a pre-paid order, sent to the address provided, then returned as undeliverable (moved, no forwarding address), which I kept for several months hoping to hear from the customer, but never did.

I ask that payment be received prior to actual production, which is usually about 3 to 4 weeks. Occasionally I have an order produced prior to payment, and the customer has changed his mind, or bought something else since ordering.

Overall, I average about 3 or 4 completed holsters per month that are not what was ordered, or not paid for, so I put those into a box and wait for another order for that combination. Occasionally I will receive an order for one that I have on hand and ready to deliver, but this happy circumstance does not happen very often. So, 2 or 3 times per year I will hold a clearance sale. Occasionally I will sell one on clearance, then receive an order for that exact thing the next week! Fortunately that unhappy circumstance doesn't happen too often.

I have thought about selecting a dozen of the most popular combinations (holster design, finish color, handgun model) and producing for open-stock orders, thinking that this might boost overall sales a bit. So far I haven't made that happen, primarily because every time I think that I have identified the most common demands I will experience several weeks with no orders for those combinations.

When we think about the specifics of serial production for selected models there are so many variables to consider. The 1911-style handguns are made with at least 5 common barrel/slide groups, plus different accessory rails and different slide profiles (flat-top, etc). The J-frame S&W revolvers now come with at least 4 barrel lengths, several barrel profiles, plus different cylinder lengths, etc. At least twice each week I receive e-mails asking about holsters for something new, and I have to decide whether or not to invest in another dummy gun (or buy another pistol, which I have done when demand indicates it is worthwhile to do so).

Things were so much easier 30 years ago! Half-a-dozen handgun makers, each making half-a-dozen variations. Now there are dozens of makers with hundreds of variations, and new models being introduced just about every month or so. Trying to anticipate demand and consumer preferences, then producing to meet what you expect people to want, just seems to be risky at best. Perhaps that is why so many of the big-name makers have gone to the "one size fits several" approach.

I can usually get all the leather, thread, dyes, hardware, etc that I need to keep up with orders. What I can't get is more hours in a day to spend at the bench. I introduced two new holster designs last year, and those took 4 to 6 months each to develop, test, and get ready for production and marketing. I have a couple of new design ideas in mind that I would like to start developing, and I have a prototype on the bench right now, knowing that it will require another 3 to 6 months of development and testing before I know whether or not it will work as expected, but with no idea at all on how it might be accepted by customers.

So, these are my thoughts on this subject, for what they may be worth.

Best regards.

[Dwight]

I did a couple of production runs this spring and summer to get ahead of my anticipated sales, . . . it has not panned out as well as I wanted it to do so far, . . . but that is just a product of the market, . . . and why so many bigger outfits can and do employ "market research" people.

I'm getting ready for another small production run, . . . more as samples than as actuall sellable products, . . . and will use them as examples on displays at some local gun shops.

But for the majority of my customers: custom, one at a time.

That reminds me, . . . got to get to work on the OWB for the Keltec .32 ordered yesterday, . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

[badasp118]

All I can say is I don't get the same feeling when I buy a production holster as I do a custom. I as a customer I enjoy planning it and talking to the maker, and getting "my" holster.

Badasp118

[SouthernHolsters]

I'm in the process of changing my method of operations right now after doing this for 5 years. I have been caught up for 2 weeks now from my custom orders and plan to do some custom and some on the side for "in-stock" in the future. The ability to order custom holsters is still turned off on my website and I will turn it back on in about another week, only allowing maybe 5 custom holsters through at a time. I am doing this because this is not my main source of income. I have a full time job that pays the bills and this gives me play money.

Once a year I would stop taking orders just clear the backlog then start it all over again. But the pressure to have orders completed on time took away from my evenings and weekends with my family.

I am now free to make some one-offs, experiment with my ideas, or just do nothing for the rest of the day.

[rdb]

There's a big difference between part timer, and full time holster maker. Neither one has the ideal situation.

Personally, I'm just stating off in the larger holster world, with eons of learning to do. It used to be one thing to make a custom holster every once in awhile, another to make production runs for samples at gun shops, or large requests. I've spent the past few months building a few patterns that might work on the retail level, a few that seem to do well, and then there are the possibles. With so many types of weapons, and the cost of blue/duncan guns, it will take a long time for me to catch up.

Every where I look online, the custom makers are putting up signs on their web page shutting down all new orders, or putting off deliverys for weeks, if not months. Supply and demand, simple! But a business model that takes all this into account is imperative!

There are some basic standards, I would think, that you may be able to make up a stockpile of, in a few styles, such as pancake, avenger, belt slide. You know your customer base best. They might include a few Glock 17-22, Beretta 92fs, jframe. I wouldn't go too crazy, as noted above, the one thing for sure is that if you have it in stock, the customer wants something else. The old shop keepers motto is, "If one person asks for something, tell them you may have it in the future. If a second person asks, tell them you'll have it next time they're in. If a third customer asks, you better have it."

[Shorts]

Alright, now that it's been mentioned, what is everyone's definition of a "custom" holster and a "production" holster?

The majority of holster makers, I'm thinking, make a large portion of their revenue from what I would consider "production". I see production as a patterned piece. I see custom as a one off, unpatterned piece, or a holster made from a patterned piece that's be tweaked on a customer's request, and doesn't qualify for an exchange or refund. But I'm a hard nose.

[kevinhopkins]

Hi Monica,

My idea of something custom made is (i think) the same as yours. It's an item that is made from start to finish according to what the customer wants. Anything that is termed "production" is usually associated with mass production techniques of some form or other, that allow you to produce products that are all the same, in a rapid manner. We make "production" wallets for resale. We have cutting dies for every single part, and can make about 20 wallets in the time that it would someone to do a "custom" wallet. I think there's room for both products in most people's business, but that's just a personal opinion. We've found that at times, a custom product price will drive a customer to a "production" product, and sometimes the production product will drive a customer to purchase the more expensive custom product. I think it really depends on what your own business needs and desires are. Sorry for being a bit vague!

Happy productioning!

Kevin

[Denise]

I wonder if there is room for a "semi-custom" category (for any leather work) where the customer can choose, for example, the color from a set number of colors or the carving style from a set list, but they can't make changes other than what you specify in those lists. I believe this is what a lot of people sell as "custom" when I see it really as production with options. True "custom" work to me means the customer gets to choose or modify pretty much anything so long as it doesn't negatively affect the function, which includes safety. Some see the defnition as semantics, others as a crucial distinction. Which way you see it may depend on what category of product you are trying to sell...

[Lobo]

I wonder if there is room for a "semi-custom" category (for any leather work) where the customer can choose, for example, the color from a set number of colors or the carving style from a set list, but they can't make changes other than what you specify in those lists. I believe this is what a lot of people sell as "custom" when I see it really as production with options. True "custom" work to me means the customer gets to choose or modify pretty much anything so long as it doesn't negatively affect the function, which includes safety. Some see the defnition as semantics, others as a crucial distinction. Which way you see it may depend on what category of product you are trying to sell...

Exactly! Custom work involves making a piece to the specific demands of a particular customer. I do this as a matter of course, charging for materials and shop time to produce exactly what the customer wishes to have.

However, that is a very small part of my overall business. The majority of my production is standard designs with limited options produced on demand to fill orders as received. Lots of customers like to refer to this as "custom" work, but it really is nothing more than serial production with variations based upon a menu of options.

This works well for me so I will keep doing it.

Best regards.

[TwinOaks]

Wow, this has been a good thread...

I think I can best describe my ideas through an example: My friend Robert, who manages (and will own, once his FFL shows up) the indoor range and gun shop, has decided that he's going to have me do ALL the leather for the shop. He's already got a target market, and will be adjusting the store's inventory to fit it. I'll simply be making 'cookie cutter' holsters that fit the different items in inventory. There will be a holster pattern for Glocks, S&W/Taurus snubbies, Ruger/Keltec pocket pistols, Springfield XD, Bersa, etc. They'll be available in three colors, and will be stitched to fit the shape of the weapon and probably have a thumb break strap for retention. Simple belt attachment method. These are standard pattern items, and will be priced accordingly, there will be a little "break in period" for the leather to get stretched just right.

Then there's the custom leather available. Got a weapon that isn't on the 'standard' list? Fill out this form and see the guy at the end of the counter. These holsters (and other items) are made to specific details to give the customer exactly what they want, and are molded to the specific weapon they'll carry. This area is where most of my current work is- I just finished a left handed paddle holster for a Highway Patrolman, paired with a shotgun stock wrap with padded cheek rest and loop cartridge holders for a 16 gauge. Not the most common order

And yes, the price is adjusted accordingly.

So I guess the short answer is production line items fit 'most', and a custom item fits one- whether you talking guns or people.

[horsewreck]

As I read Monica's last post here I said to myself what about semi-custom work, Then I got down to Denise's post and thought great minds do think alike. The term semi-custom is used more I think in saddlery and often denotes a product that is hand made and has workmanship and features not found in most mass produced products. In my shop we use the word custom to denote a product that is designed and built based on the customer imput, while we only tell the buyer what we can't do for safety or functional reasons. If a customer asks for let's say a holster model that we build alot and only adds his initials to the front, I might call that a semi-custom product. While I am making that semi-custom holster I might cut out two or three of the same model and finish them just to have in the store for walkins, I would call them stock or production holsters. For me being in the position of being able to make all levels of product helps us stay in buisness and prosper, though I will admit that the custom-er can be trying at times I still love the custom business.

[vahillbilly]

You can also make a "batch" of holsters in the same manner as you would a production run of holsters. Even if they are different patterns for different weapons, you can cut out a batch of say 20, of whatever you have orders for or want to stock. Then assemble them all with a pretty specific list of steps which are common to most pieces. For example, cut, glue, sew, mold, dye, etc. This is a lot faster, at least for me, than the one at a time approach, yet each holster can be considered custom. I also think it is a very good idea to have partially completed popular designs put together when time allows.

As to the custom vs. semi-custom vs. production holsters, I think there is a market for all, but they do have to be priced to match each catagory. You will have to decide whether you want to accept market prices for "less custom" pieces.

Sam