Splitter Or Skiver?

[Matt S]

Hi @KathrynHD,

Please forgive me if you've mentioned it somewhere and I've missed it, but exactly what sort of leathers are you intending to split/skive, and in what sizes? The sorts of fixed-blade machines you're looking at are a useful tool but certainly not universally useful. In my experience (which admittedly is mostly in cheap ones) they are best used on stiffer leathers like bridle where the leather is resistant to stretching. Like all skiving tools and machines the condition of the blade is absolutely crucial in addition to technique, or else you will get uneven, inaccurate or just plain cut-through splits. Pull-through splitters also tend to need a lot of upper body strength when splitting everything over 2"/5cm wide, irrespective of the blade width. Crankers are a little better, but the ones I've used tend to designed for splitting shoe soling and are rather... cranky when dealing with thinner and softer leathers.

[KathrynHD]

 

38 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Hi @KathrynHD,

Please forgive me if you've mentioned it somewhere and I've missed it, but exactly what sort of leathers are you intending to split/skive, and in what sizes? The sorts of fixed-blade machines you're looking at are a useful tool but certainly not universally useful. In my experience (which admittedly is mostly in cheap ones) they are best used on stiffer leathers like bridle where the leather is resistant to stretching. Like all skiving tools and machines the condition of the blade is absolutely crucial in addition to technique, or else you will get uneven, inaccurate or just plain cut-through splits. Pull-through splitters also tend to need a lot of upper body strength when splitting everything over 2"/5cm wide, irrespective of the blade width. Crankers are a little better, but the ones I've used tend to designed for splitting shoe soling and are rather... cranky when dealing with thinner and softer leathers.

Hi Matt S and thank you for your response.

What I am using at the moment is Veg tanned leather mostly around 2.8mm to 4mm of leather, a few different types including bridle leather. I have found it more economical to buy in long strips rather than buy a hide for now, especially as I am not entirely sure the best options to use and at the trial and error stage.  A wrong hide is a big error!   I have also used pigskin as a liner and nappa leather as padded lining.   My needs for a splitter/skiver in the foreseeable future (providing people want to buy my collars) are around the 2.8 to 4mm (- ish) type of thickness for the face of the collar and 1.0mm-1.5mm for the back or for making card holders and wallets.    What I would like to be able to do is sometimes be able to thin a piece of leather the same as I have used on say, the face of the collar, to be used as the liner, so it matches, yet doesn't make the collar too thick.  It's difficult for instance to get two reds to match of different types.  Mostly what I am using leather which is recommended for belts and will no doubt make belts too as they will be very similar and easier than the collars I am making. 

I have seen when looking at hides that you can buy 3 different thicknesses say 1.5mm; 2-2.4mm, and 3-3.2mm. What seems practical is to buy the thicker hide which you can use for all projects, whereas I would have to buy 2 hides and I may not want to make that many collars in that colour, or in fact sometimes I may want a contrasting colour.   Also, it seems to be an advantage if you have the ability to skive the ends to create a tapered skive rather than doing it by hand with a knife....I have attempted tapered skives with a knife and had some success and do intend to perfect this, but on a belt for instance where they are quite wide and a larger item it would be good to be able to use a machine to do it too.

One of my collars had an insert of tweed so the face had a cut out for that and I wanted to put a finer leather on the back which would  be strong enough to account for the top section being cut out, but stronger than a nappa leather and hold the shape.   Ideally I would like to have used the same colour...2 x the original thickness was too much so if I could thin a piece of the same leather so the overall thickness would be  as I wanted....With the leather's I had available, I used a different colour on the back and dyed the edges to help it look right, which worked out fine, but it wasn't what I wanted to do. 

I would like it to be a bit future proof to still be able to use if I progress on to other things in the future.  I doubt I will ever want to be making shoes, think my limit will be bags and maybe a simple briefcase ,   I also have a couple of watch straps to attempt for my sons...so would see how that went too. I have a hectic time up until Christmas with other work and commitments but will be able to make more set time in the New Year.  It has been very much done in very restricted spare time up to now.    I have seen one tutorial where the maker said once he had bought his splitter/skiver it meant he was using up most of his leather. Inspiring him to make things to use it up.   He uses a hand crank model, I think he says it is a similar design to a Cowboy model from the US. I think similar are $2000 or more, and yet he still was recommending a few little adjustments to it to make it work more efficiently.  That kind of cost is out of the question for me at the moment.  For collars I would need to split up to say 40mm wide, and if I split down thicker leather for wallets maybe a tad more, but my main need at the moment would be for collars. So far the widest part of my one collar was 38mm but I did pad this rather than line it with a flat single piece of leather, so not so essential for that one.    The other collar I made needed a 32mm at the middle point width and that is what I used the pigskin for (It was called Pitsford Saddle Pigskin) but this replaced what I would like to have created from splitting the face of the collar.  May be that unless I spend a lot I cannot cover all those things especially on larger collars or belts.  I know on the bench top Osborne like ones you have to pull quite hard.  I have used this silly little one I have and been able to pull that through, but do understand it can sometimes be quite tough to do.   I imagine the sharper your blade the easier it is. 

So,  are you still awake?    bet you wish you hadn't asked .....or does that help you advise me ?

 

 

[KathrynHD]

On 11/22/2021 at 3:01 AM, bruce johnson said:

Since Joseph Dixon is no longer in business. It will be hard to get original parts. As far as blades, they are pretty simple and a good bladesmith should be able to make one. Rollers - any machine shop can make those. The Dixons are OK,  not sure how easy they'd be to skive with. They are just not that common in the US although I've got one or two sitting here to be refurbished but don't come across maybe one a year usually. 

What is the likelihood of a Krebs machine being available anywhere?  

[berkan]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:55 PM, KathrynHD said:

Oh, I have dismissed any of those I have seen thinking they were a cobblers machine.....Just too much for me in cost at the moment, though when I have a minute I will look and see if there are any videos....I have looked at crank handle ones online and thought that would be much easier and not stretch the leather....but they always come more expensive and I haven't proved myself yet to justify.   It does sound a good one from the description but I can't justify spending that at the moment.....it would increase too with shipping and customs.  They add 20% here of the price paid before it can be posted!  Thank you very much for the link... it's another type to look out for.  

If you want to bid, I will discount the price.
I'm selling all the beautiful tools I love as I'm leaving my workshop and going abroad.

Keep in mind, see you

 

 

[RockyAussie]

On 11/22/2021 at 7:42 PM, KathrynHD said:

Okay, food for thought, thanks for the repy. seems people have their favourites which they learn by trying out all sorts, and different ones suit different people and what they need them for... I suppose at some point I just need to get one and see.  I am reticent as I have made a couple of howlers in buying in the very beginning....a bit taken with the look of old machinery.....    

Like you I think I bought a lot of howlers when I first started off. I bought a roller type for a way lotta money and found that I then needed to become a master at sharpening to get anywhere near to predictable results. That also takes a fair time to do. I have had the boot repair style cutter/skiver and for shoe repairing hard sole leather but not any use for general leather goods making. I would suggest you keep an eye out for a good priced bell skiver. I have band knife splitters but early on I did a lot of my splitting requirements with a bell knife skiver and they have the advantage of being able to be sharpened by the machine within a few seconds normally. I would recommend either a Fortuna or a Fav AV2 machine as my first choices and you can see in this video I did awhile back a little of what I am talking about. There are a few others as well if you check while your there.  They are not hard to resell if you decide to later on.

 

[KathrynHD]

23 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

Like you I think I bought a lot of howlers when I first started off. I bought a roller type for a way lotta money and found that I then needed to become a master at sharpening to get anywhere near to predictable results. That also takes a fair time to do. I have had the boot repair style cutter/skiver and for shoe repairing hard sole leather but not any use for general leather goods making. I would suggest you keep an eye out for a good priced bell skiver. I have band knife splitters but early on I did a lot of my splitting requirements with a bell knife skiver and they have the advantage of being able to be sharpened by the machine within a few seconds normally. I would recommend either a Fortuna or a Fav AV2 machine as my first choices and you can see in this video I did awhile back a little of what I am talking about. There are a few others as well if you check while your there.  They are not hard to resell if you decide to later on.

 

Thank you for your reply.  It looks interesting, I wonder how they worked....What is the maximum width of leather that will split?

[Spyros]

On 11/18/2021 at 9:27 PM, KathrynHD said:

What about this one?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275030817581?hash=item40091d3b2d:g:ZM8AAOSwyNdhgpwD

Says the spring metal opener  is broken and missing??  for the pliers. Is this fixable? Is it mad to buy an untested machine?  Certainly looks nice. I would want for splitting and skiving

I have a cheap ebay version of this thing, and it works for me, but it does take some upper body strength and it will stretch your leather a bit. 

But most crucially, have you ever tried to sharpen a blade like that?  The one I bought even has a secondary bevel, which means that once a month I need a full hour in complete silence and focus to sharpen this thing, and I've sharpened (feels like) a million things in my life so it's not like I'm new to sharpening.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Spyros

[RockyAussie]

1 hour ago, KathrynHD said:

Thank you for your reply.  It looks interesting, I wonder how they worked....What is the maximum width of leather that will split?

If you wanted to do a large piece that is not easily bent ...with the guide removed you can go back untill you reach the overhead arm at the back which is about 8' or 200mm so if you turn it around you would be able to double that width to 16". The roller or presser guide though means that you are limited to doing each pass at around 30mm or 1.2" at a time. Most stuff like belts and that take one pass either side which can be bevelled or flat if you want. I do have one video where I am doing up 100+ croc belts which I think I have to get around to loading up sometime soon. Here are a few pictures that show one of the typical uses this machine is used for-

Here this croc top pieces are ready to skive

Here are the leather fillers that are skived

This is showing the croc being skived

Edges at .5mm

What some look like when nearly finished

[KathrynHD]

That looks very impressive...thank you, I will do some research 

[KathrynHD]

12 hours ago, Spyros said:

I have a cheap ebay version of this thing, and it works for me, but it does take some upper body strength and it will stretch your leather a bit. 

But most crucially, have you ever tried to sharpen a blade like that?  The one I bought even has a secondary bevel, which means that once a month I need a full hour in complete silence and focus to sharpen this thing, and I've sharpened (feels like) a million things in my life so it's not like I'm new to sharpening.

  It does seem a mammoth task the sharpening.  I have seen videos on ones where you put them in a gadget with wheels, can't remember what it's called and that helps to shape when there is a bevel.  Also graduating wet and dry paper fixed over glass looks a good option but I have only done a minimum amount of sharpening knives, just have watched a few videos too.  It's all food for thought.  Keep getting very tempted and then put off