Pros And Cons: Cylinder Vs Post Vs Flat Bed

[MartyS]

As a beginner leather worker / experienced designer I am looking to buy only one machine. I will need to sew some production belts, but also work out the patterns on bags and other odd shaped items. I can see that a flat bed won't work for many shaped items, but I don't understand the pros and cons of cylinder arm vs post type machines.

Thanks Marty.

[dirtclod]

Marty i have both types of machine post and cylinder arm. You can do alot on a post machine but i think you can do alot more on a cylinder arm machine. On the cylinder arm you can sew a wider piece without having to fold or mash it depending on the arm length. A cylinder arm will generally sew heavier / thicker materials. Use heavier thread. More choices on the feet especially if you get a newer machine. Most companies have a flat plate attachment that can be put on or took off if you want one. Sew odd shapes and they are easier to sell to more people if you ever need to. And i'm sure their are some things that i didn't think of.

Marty if your going to get a new machine take pieces of what your going to be sewing and try it out, if your going to order one send samples and ask them to sew them for you. If your buying a used one do the same thing. Call different dealers and talk to them see who you feel comfortable with.

[Lobo]

I just set up my new Cobra Class 4 from Leather Machine Company (see banner ads).

This is a cylinder arm machine with 16.5" throat and will sew just about anything easily. Flat bed attachment was included with mine, as was a roller-style material guide. Servo motor provides excellent control. Reverse is easily engaged and stitches back in the same holes.

The difference in price between a middle-of-the-road machine and a top-of-the-line machine is relatively small. I recommend buying a machine that will exceed your needs rather than struggling with less for some applications. I also recommend buying from a company known for outstanding customer service. Call Steve, he will see that you get exactly what you need and be there after the sale with technical support.

[Art]

Hi Marty,

So, you can buy either a Flat bed, a cylinder arm, or a post machine and you can have only one, period. One of each would definitely be the better solution and one of each in both the medium and large versions would be the best solution. But if you have got to have it all, you need to throw a patcher in there.

Cobra Class 4 with needle positioning system. Heavy Duty Cylinder arm with Table (for flat work)

Cobra Class 18 with needle positioning system

Cobra Class 18 C special order cylinder arm machine

Cobra Class 29 Patcher

Cobra Class 88 or Class 51 Post Machine

Cobra Class 55 a small boot top decorating machine that is great of wallets etc.

The patcher and post machines are great machines for repair work. There are some repair jobs that a post can do without deconstructing a purse or other item, but with enough creativity, you can do it with a Class 18 flat bed if you have to. If someone wants you to sew a patch on a jacket sleeve and you don't have a patcher, turn it down or get out the hand-sewing kit.

The real choice here is between the Class 18 C and the Class 4. You need to choose the maximum thread size you need. The Class 18 uses 46 to 207 and the Class 4 uses 138 (it will sew 69 but will need a little adjustment) to 415. Of course the amount of product you can get under the presser foot is different too.

I've heard folks say you need a flat bed for belts, well it ain't so. Harness makers have been using cylinder arm (or needle and awl machines which are like big cylinder arms) for about ever. Once you learn to use a sewing machine, you can pretty much sew whatever you need to, sometimes it is a little easier with one machine or another, but you can get it done with what you have (not quite time to throw away the awl and harness needles though). Necessity is the mother of invention.

After all that crud, Get a Class 4 and don't look back. Best machine, best dealer.

Art

[harnessman]

On 9/9/2010 at 11:42 PM, MartyS said:

As a beginner leather worker / experienced designer I am looking to buy only one machine. I will need to sew some production belts, but also work out the patterns on bags and other odd shaped items. I can see that a flat bed won't work for many shaped items, but I don't understand the pros and cons of cylinder arm vs post type machines.

Thanks Marty.

Hi Marty

I went through the same agony about three years ago. I was getting way behind on work doing everything by hand, needle and awl. I knew that in order to keep competitive and grow I needed a machine, but which one. Based on current work at the time I had a real hard time justifying the $2K of the large harness machines, much less the $4-$5K of a good Campbell or Adler. I finally settled on one of the big cylinder arm stitchers commonly know as a class 4 or Juki 441 clone from China/Taiwan/Japan. Got fits from the wife about spending that much money on a new sewing machine for my "hobby". Let me tell you that without any reservations it is the best investment I have ever made in a piece of machinery. That big sucker has paid for itself many times over and has allowed me to get into work that would have been virtually impossible without it. There are very few projects that can not be handled by that cylinder arm. Flat work, no problem, takes me about 30 seconds to attach my home made flat table. Round work, that would be almost impossible to do on a conventional needle and awl machine is a cinch with the cylinder. Box stitching, not a problem with the right attachments. 3/4" thick traces 72" long, piece of cake, I can now sew up a set, double line stitched, in about 1/2 hour where it used to take me a week to do by hand. Then, with a few adjustments, I can sew thin 7-8 oz belts laying down a beautiful consistent stitch that frankly rivals hand stitching and is soooo much faster.

There is a learning curve with the big stitchers, as there is with any machine, but once you get the hang of it they are amazing. I personally see no need for all the fancy needle positioning crap that they are currently hanging on them that drive the cost up. It did not take me long at all to figure out how to put one stitch at a time where I wanted it and stop the needle up, or down, or any where in between.

Oh, I have also worked with Post type machines, we have lots of them in the upholstery shop at work, and they are pretty much a specialty machine and not all that versatile. They are pretty limiting as to what you can do with them compared to a cylinder arm. If you only have room, or budget, for one machine bite the bullet, get the cylinder arm, you will not regret it.

JMHO

Jim

Edited October 30, 2019 by Wizcrafts
Corrented the original tiny font size.

[christine1ca]

This is super helpful as I've been going through the same search. @harnessman what's your model # for the machine you love so much?

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, christine1ca said:

This is super helpful as I've been going through the same search. @harnessman what's your model # for the machine you love so much?

Harnessman hasn't posted on this forum since January, 2016. This topic is from September 2010; nine + years ago.

[PatC61]

Hi, I am a total newbie.   I haven't started using leather as yet.  I use leatherette or Waterproof Canvas to make bags.  I am thinking of getting an industrial machine.  First I was looking at the Post bed but it seems now that the cylinder bed may be the better choice.  Any words of advice?

[Art]

Get a cylinder bed machine, preferably one with a flat table insert. The post machine is seldom a requirement (although that one time you need one, nothing else will do). I do have a post, but wouldn't want one as my only machine. You can do a lot (almost anything) with a post, but it won't be as comfortable as it will be with a cylinder bed.

[dikman]

A cylinder arm is probably the most useful overall. My first machine was a post bed (given to me by a friend) but I hardly use it.

[Michiel]

A postbed is great for  top stitching bags

I have cilinder arm and post bed machines , but when  making bag’s I always use my postbed and hardly a cilinderarm

[Michiel]

Thinking about it:

when you use thick leather a cilinder arm is great and there are not much advantages with a post bed.

But for thin stuff a post bed is more versatile in my opinion.

I think that’s why most members here are for cilinder arms (and they are right)

It depends on the material and the design of your projects

[Art]

Welts and bottoms on bags is where the post shines.