Rant - Suppliers Selling Finished Goods, It's Competition?

[jeeperaz]

A few weeks ago I went to a feed & tack store and noticed a whole wall of finished leather goods with Weaver's brand name on them. Today, I went to Petsmart and noticed a whole section of dog collars from Weaver.

I have a huge problem with this. I cannot support my 'competition. Weaver has seen their last penny from me.

Even if they do not sell the same product as you, one has to wonder if it's only a matter of time. Would you still buy parts and supplies from them if they sold retail finished holsters, belts, boots, saddles?

Am I missing something here... why shouldn't we as leatherworkers have a serious issue with suppliers selling finished goods? Especially this one who does it at a retail level.

[dbusarow]

I knew about (and even bought) Weaver tack long before I ever bought any leather, buckles, finishes etc.. from them.

Not a problem for me. An awful lot of what I need under one roof. I'm pretty sure they started out selling tack and the supply side of the business came about later.

Dan

[NoahL]

Make your product better than them. Problem solved.

[jeeperaz]

Make your product better than them. Problem solved.

The question isn't how to compete against them. It's a little more philosophical than that.

For what it's worth, I make custom hiking boots. I doubt there will be a day where I walk into REI and see a sale on Weaver 'Super Hikers'.

What I'm trying to convey is that I see their offerings as competition to that of our community... as a whole. In the same vain as I wouldn't buy a Galco Holster or Fossil Ipad cover, I don't feel right about buying supplies from Weaver.

[Ferg]

The question isn't how to compete against them. It's a little more philosophical than that.

For what it's worth, I make custom hiking boots. I doubt there will be a day where I walk into REI and see a sale on Weaver 'Super Hikers'.

What I'm trying to convey is that I see their offerings as competition to that of our community... as a whole. In the same vain as I wouldn't buy a Galco Holster or Fossil Ipad cover, I don't feel right about buying supplies from Weaver.

Competition perhaps but what is wrong with that? They do make some mighty nice looking product.

I think you are making too much of this.

ferg

[jeeperaz]

Competition perhaps but what is wrong with that? They do make some mighty nice looking product.

I think you are making too much of this.

ferg

Yes, I'm probably making way too much of this but I do believe there is some ultimate truth in my thinking. Of course competition is good, but financially supporting your competition might possibly be insane.

I've let go of this... rant mode off

[bruce johnson]

It has kind of been a natural progression in both directions for some of our suppliers. They go or have gone from manufacturing to a supply division or vice versa from supplies to manufacturing. Tandy owned a belt company in the 90s when I was making belts. I buy rope cans from suppliers who also sell custom leather covered rope cans. I buy from who gives me the best service and price, not necessarily them being competition or not. I buy some of my leather from a guy who is a great leather craftsman and has a business with both. None of these really bother me, we all have customers for our price and expertise market.

For this next part, I am not picking on nay one supplier or praising one for that matter (unless either recognises themselves). I can see both sides of things. They might be competition, but the reputable ones are buying materials and have a feel for lot to lot changes in what they are getting - good or bad. Hopefully they have the character to pass that experience on when they select for my order. I really appreciate it when a supplier tells me "the 7/8s are rough, but I've got some good 8/9s". I like it when they say "I've got some great 8/9 sides, you sure you only want one?". I love it even more when they say "It is all crap, but I've got a new shipment coming next week". I have sure had some businesses that weren't users of what they sell, and the some were good. One recently wasn't. That takes experience, and integrity. You either have to have knowledge of the product through use, or enough experience to know what they got in the last shipment and how it might work up.

[JLSleather]

From a "Weaver" point of view (or anybody else who sells hides AND finished goods), the hides they sell is only another of their "products".

On the other hand, the guy has a point. Your competition and your supplier is the same guy ... so ... you have retail price on materials, they're paying tannery price. You're paying WAY more in shipping a few hides at a time than they are for a rail car or truck load. And if they have a "cash flow" issue, they can get you to fix it for them (?????).

In the end, all you can do is decide if what you want is worth the price they're asking - and then buy it or don't.

[Kevin]

If you're truly in competition with them, just buy their stuff and resell it. I don't pay much attention to their finished product catalog, but I don't recall seeing anything all that impressive.

Kevin

[Russ]

The saddle shop I work in has a Weaver display of tack and such products, right next to the shop-made stuff. The percentage is 90% shop-made sales vs. 10% Weaver. I think people go to a saddle shop to buy non-manufactured items. If there isn't a saddle shop around, they'll hit Tractor Supply or wherever. That's what I do...or used to do before I started making my own.

I took a tour of Weaver's manufacturing area last time I was there. When I saw a batch of 500 dog collars being made or 2000 lead ropes completed in 10 minutes, or the assembly line of clicker/edge rubbing/staining/edge painting/hole punching for a 50 bridles per minute, I would look at my wife and say "that's why I can't compete with Weaver." But, I was only joking. I CAN'T compete with Weaver, I don't have millions of $ in machinery and 350 people working for me. Yet.

If you're truly in competition with them, just buy their stuff and resell it. I don't pay much attention to their finished product catalog, but I don't recall seeing anything all that impressive.

Kevin

[Johanna]

Bruce is right about:

It has kind of been a natural progression in both directions for some of our suppliers. They go or have gone from manufacturing to a supply division or vice versa from supplies to manufacturing.

Weaver has been selling finished goods (and they will gladly sell you some at wholesale for you to sell) as long as I can remember. When I worked for Tandy 20 years ago, we got to tour the Eversman Pkwy facility. Everything was made there, too, from dye to lace to and Craftools. The "finished products" were the kits and belt blanks. Springfield Leather sells finished goods and supplies. So does Zack White Leather. Have you seen a Crazy Crow catalog lately? There are some people who want to do the work themselves, there are some people who re-sell and need inventory, there are some people who like kits and then bling it out, there are some people who are going to pay $15K for a designer handbag made out of plastic. I don't see a conflict of interest.

However, you should call Weaver and tell them they should be advertising here.

Johanna

[Art]

Weaver had been selling their tack line for some time. We sell it in the tack shops I am connected with. There are several reasons. First, I could not custom make the volume we sell at our shops. Second, even if I could make their tack line, I could never compete and pay the product liability insurance that comes with the Weaver (we also sell Jeffries) name. Hell, they aren't going to sue me when they do something stupid, their lawyers are going after Weaver. Weaver is filling a niche that I simply can't, and I make a decent markup on it. And Weaver only sells to brick and mortar (well boards and nails in our case) tack shops. Some of our customers can barely afford to board their animals, much less pay high prices (it seems to them) for custom tack, the Weaver line sells very well.

I generally don't buy uncut leather from Weaver. I feel there might be too much temptation for them to cherry pick the leather for their own use. For my own use, I use Belgian, English, and German hardware, Weaver (and Tandy who they cooperate with on buying) tend to provide Chinese stuff. The quality is OK but not great on Weaver hardware.

So, don't shun Weaver because they sort of compete with you, use them, order some of their product and mark it up, that's what you are supposed to do. You will still get custom work, but you will also make money on the customer who really doesn't want custom tack, why have them walk out the door and spend nothing?

Art