New To Butterfly Head/universal Head Patcher Machines

[suem]

I just got a 29k 72 patcher. From what I'm reading here I guess I paid a little high for it but I'm happy with it. The long bed 72 model seems a little tough to find plus is a 1950's model made in clydebank scotland and the historical value adds a bit of value to me. I only wish I'd gotten one of those nice original tables but mine came with a standard modern table with a clutch motor (which is going to be fun I guess since I'm used to the other type which are easier to handle/control).

I've never owned anything with a butterfly head before, I never even knew a machine existed with a head that could turn 360 degrees. I always wondered how they sewed zippers into boots, guess this is it.

Yes, I'd like more footlift but I've got a 1" footlift ludwig/aka seiko standard depth cylinder bed for heavier stuff. This attracted me for fixing boot zippers and also the ability to sew in circles for patches etc. in jacket arms and I can see a hundred other applications too. Probably will be dealing a lot with motorcycle bags, seats, the occasional jacket repair. Would do chaps on my other machine most likely.

My question regards the butterfly head. It moves smoothly most of the way around, it gets a little "stiff" in two spots. i've put a little oil in the head thinking it was a bit dry, which helped, but I'm wondering if something may be bent or worn inside...don't want to push it and break something.

Should this head move easily and smoothly the whole 360 degrees or should I expect a bit of resistance in some spots?

thanks for responding.

[Wizcrafts]

I just got a 29k 72 patcher.

SNIP

My question regards the butterfly head. It moves smoothly most of the way around, it gets a little "stiff" in two spots. i've put a little oil in the head thinking it was a bit dry, which helped, but I'm wondering if something may be bent or worn inside...don't want to push it and break something.

Should this head move easily and smoothly the whole 360 degrees or should I expect a bit of resistance in some spots?

thanks for responding.

There is a little leaf spring, shaped something like an inverted letter T - inside the lower section of the needlebar. It is needed to hold back the top thread a bit as the take-up lever does its thing. Sometimes, the spring gets bent and makes contact with the side walls. Eventually, the spring will get pulled out of its channel. It will bend out of shape and cause the butterfly action to have hard spots. The spring is replaceable, along with the two tiny screws that secure it. The entire needlebar must be removed to replace the thread spring.

If this spring is bent, broken, or missing, the top thread will form loops on top, in random places on the material being sewn. I just went through this and replaced the spring on the bottom of the needlebar, on my Singer 29K172. It is still not exactly right and I still get the odd thread loop on top of the leather. The old spring prevented the loops, but it bent under a heavy sewing load and broke off a few weeks ago.

[cdthayer]

I just got a 29k 72 patcher.

My question regards the butterfly head. It moves smoothly most of the way around, it gets a little "stiff" in two spots.

Hi suem,

I have a Singer 29K70 that had two "stiff spots" in the 360 degree rotation of the upper feed. It would rotate the full circle, but had those two spots that aggravated the heck out of me. It's something that you could check on yours.

I probably don't have the proper terminology for things, but the press pin in the top of the cylinder sticks out on both ends, and rotates closely to the lower hex nut on the feed adjustment shaft directly behind the cylinder from the operator. The jam nut was turned with the widest point sticking out in the path where the pin rotates around, and the pin on mine was rubbing against the nut shoulder. I simply adjusted the jam nuts very slightly so that the lower one had the flat portion of the nut facing the pin path.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

[suem]

There is a little leaf spring, shaped something like an inverted letter T - inside the lower section of the needlebar. It is needed to hold back the top thread a bit as the take-up lever does its thing. Sometimes, the spring gets bent and makes contact with the side walls. Eventually, the spring will get pulled out of its channel. It will bend out of shape and cause the butterfly action to have hard spots. The spring is replaceable, along with the two tiny screws that secure it. The entire needlebar must be removed to replace the thread spring.

If this spring is bent, broken, or missing, the top thread will form loops on top, in random places on the material being sewn. I just went through this and replaced the spring on the bottom of the needlebar, on my Singer 29K172. It is still not exactly right and I still get the odd thread loop on top of the leather. The old spring prevented the loops, but it bent under a heavy sewing load and broke off a few weeks ago.

I haven't had a chance to test out the machine yet (need somebody to help me bolt it down because this thing is weird in that the screws come up from below and screw to the bottom of the machine) hopefully a friend is coming by today to help me get the machine head properly installed on the table. I have seen that leaf spring for sale, probably need to pick a few up, removing the needle bar sounds like a bit of an operation.

I have a very competent industrial tech just blocks away but he wants seventy bucks just to look at it (not that he doesn't deserve that because he does) and that isn't in the budget at the moment.

[suem]

Hi suem,

I have a Singer 29K70 that had two "stiff spots" in the 360 degree rotation of the upper feed. It would rotate the full circle, but had those two spots that aggravated the heck out of me. It's something that you could check on yours.

I probably don't have the proper terminology for things, but the press pin in the top of the cylinder sticks out on both ends, and rotates closely to the lower hex nut on the feed adjustment shaft directly behind the cylinder from the operator. The jam nut was turned with the widest point sticking out in the path where the pin rotates around, and the pin on mine was rubbing against the nut shoulder. I simply adjusted the jam nuts very slightly so that the lower one had the flat portion of the nut facing the pin path.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

Ok thanks. Some of that made sense (i'm a computer hardware geek and I dabble in mechanical stuff..wish I'd paid more attention when dad tried to teach me mechanics when I was a spud)...so in essence you're saying that the nut(s) can be sticking out too far or turned the wrong way and rubbing on something.

It's improved a touch since I oiled it last night. Most of the way it's smooth as silk, just two places it feels like it's binding a tad and it's not a hard grabby binding like you'd expect with a bad spring, it does feel like a rubbing binding which might explain why it got a little better with some slippery stuff.

Funny, the owner said they just had it serviced and I'd expect a good tech to check such things and adjust or repair as necessary. Of course they also told me the front tensioner was there when they put it in the trailer to bring it to me and I go back and look at the ebay pictures and it wasn't there; that's what I get for insufficient research but I really don't feel taken the parts are fairly easy to get with only a few minor exceptions it's a very pretty machine full of history.

So....hex nuts....I need a tiny box wrench, assuming english size or was britain on hex in the 1950's????? Is it the typical righty tighty or is a a f*ck nut that is a reverse thread.

I just took a close look at that, it looks like there is a tiny but adequate amount of clearance there so we are most likely back to the spring issue. I wouldn't mind learning how to pull that needle bar and fix it myself but if there are fine readjustments to make it all "go" again that's really a lot more time than I have at the moment, I want to use it that would just frustrate me, LOL. I have another machine sitting on the floor that the screw on the needle bar loosened and it moved out of position, the place told me how to fix it I just haven't gotten to it because I have other machines, don't need it.

If I pull the needle bar to replace this spring is it a PITA to get out, reinstall and are there adjustments or is it just a pull it out and put it back thing? Any good diagrams? I saw a book on ebay supposedly written by a tech, not old hat revisited, ten bucks download...probably worth it if it's illustrated etc. What tools will I need if I decide to try this.......

Sue.

Thanks for the response.

Edited November 22, 2010 by suem

[suem]

Lubrication question

On the right side of the machine, near the balance wheel, and on the back of the machine there is a panel that is opened for lubrication. I was wondering what grease should be used on what I'm assuming is the main drive shaft because it's so close to the pullys for the belt. They appear to have used some sort of thick black grease there. I was always under the idea that you stuck with heavy silicone grease that black grease wasn't good because it can dry out and cake (I had that happen to one of my older kenmores, the grease thickened up to the point the machine wouldn't run). So what sort of heavy lubricant should I use on that drive gear??? Thanks.

[Wizcrafts]

I wouldn't mind learning how to pull that needle bar and fix it myself but if there are fine readjustments to make it all "go" again that's really a lot more time than I have at the moment ...

If I pull the needle bar to replace this spring is it a PITA to get out, reinstall and are there adjustments or is it just a pull it out and put it back thing? What tools will I need if I decide to try this.......

Sue.

Thanks for the response.

Sue;

First of all, you should examine the spring on the needlebar to see if it warped. Lower the needlebar all the way down. Aim a flashlight, or clamp light onto the left side of the lowered needlebar and look at the left side of the bar, just above the mounting bracket for the needle. The spring is visible at that point. The thin shaft rides inside a 1/6" wide channel and the bottom looks like a paddle and rests in a cutout. If it is warped the paddle part will not sit squarely across the cutout, but will be twisted. Ditto for its thin strut that connects to the top of the spring, where it is screwed onto the needlebar, with two little screws. A warped spring catches inside the hole as you turn the butterfly and will break off the paddle section.

Here is what you will need to pull the needlebar, to replace a warped or broken thread control spring:

1. A 9/16" open end wrench, only if your patcher has a tall hex shaped darning assembly sticking up, with a rotating T bar on top. It will need to be unscrewed before the needle lifter pin can be driven out.
2. a set of drift pin punches, with small, medium and large faces
3. a hammer
4. a medium width flat blade screwdriver
5. a small, narrow blade screwdriver, with a decent handle. Or, a medium jewelers screwdriver and possibly pliers to turn it.

The needlebar assembly is in two pieces. The needle is mounted onto a little piece of metal that is screwed onto the needlebar. That screw is above the needle securing screw. Here is the sequence to remove the needlebar:

1. Unscrew the needle holder from the needlebar
2. If your machine has the T bar darning attachment, behind the needlebar, on top, remove it with a 9/16" wrench
3. Use a drift punch to drive out the tapered pin that holds the needlebar to the take-up lever puck. Drive from the back towards you.
4. Drive out the pin holding the take-up lever to its assembly (back towards front) and remove the lever
5. Unscrew the lift height adjusters on the back of the lift assembly
6. Remove the lift assembly from the trapeze, pulling it out of the front
7. Lift the needlebar out of the top
8. Locate the little T shaped thread control spring, just above where the needle holder screws onto the needlebar and carefully unscrew the two tiny screws that secure it. Use two magnets to keep them safe. Keep them in their original positions (left and right) and separated.
9. Remove the spring
10. clean the bar while it is out.
11. Install the new spring and secure it tightly with the little screws. Make sure they are all the way down. Try to install the screws in the same positions, in case they have worn according to their original mounting position.
12. Lightly oil the needlebar and replace it into the top of the hole in the head.
13. Replace the needle lift assembly and its adjusters and the take-up lever pin (front towards back)
14. Replace the pin that holds the needlebar to the needle lifter (front towards back)
15. Re-attach the darning T-bar assembly, if exists.
16. Attach the needle holder assembly and position it so that the needle is centered in the hole in the throat cover plate.
17. You are done at this point

Or, take it to a competent sewing machine mechanic and pay him to do all this.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Wizcrafts

[CowboyBob]

suem,

Don't put grease in the back,there's a roller there & it will buildup behind the roller & stop it from spinning & put flat spots on it & ruin it!ONLY use oil on the whole machine.

On the issure about the butterfly turning the others gave you some things to look at & I just thought I'd mention that sometimes it gets dirt & etc in it & if you just keep oiling & turning it'll loosen up.

Bob

[suem]

suem,

Don't put grease in the back,there's a roller there & it will buildup behind the roller & stop it from spinning & put flat spots on it & ruin it!ONLY use oil on the whole machine.

On the issure about the butterfly turning the others gave you some things to look at & I just thought I'd mention that sometimes it gets dirt & etc in it & if you just keep oiling & turning it'll loosen up.

Bob

That's what I mean some dufus already put some thick black grease back there before I got it!!!!!! So how do I get this off before it causes an issue?

Wow, not surprising, people that sold it to me told me that an industrial mechanic worked on it...sounds like the guy was an idiot. So will pb blaster do to take all that out of there? Or wd 40? I know there are some products that dissolve grease...heck even I know you don't put anything but white oil on a sewing machine. The 29K book says in one place that if you have a squeaky issue that regular oil isn't fixing to try some hot paraffin...that's still miles from thick black possibly lithium or bearing grease as this stuff appears to be!

Aggh always take a close look at your purchases, some idiot could have screwed it up.

Going to inspect the spring and keep oiling it hopefully that's all it is..........

[suem]

Sue;

First of all, you should examine the spring on the needlebar to see if it warped. Lower the needlebar all the way down. Aim a flashlight, or clamp light onto the left side of the lowered needlebar and look at the left side of the bar, just above the mounting bracket for the needle. The spring is visible at that point. The thin shaft rides inside a 1/6" wide channel and the bottom looks like a paddle and rests in a cutout. If it is warped the paddle part will not sit squarely across the cutout, but will be twisted. Ditto for its thin strut that connects to the top of the spring, where it is screwed onto the needlebar, with two little screws. A warped spring catches inside the hole as you turn the butterfly and will break off the paddle section.

Here is what you will need to pull the needlebar, to replace a warped or broken thread control spring:

1. A 9/16" open end wrench, only if your patcher has a tall hex shaped darning assembly sticking up, with a rotating T bar on top. It will need to be unscrewed before the needle lifter pin can be driven out.
2. a set of drift pin punches, with small, medium and large faces
3. a hammer
4. a medium width flat blade screwdriver
5. a small, narrow blade screwdriver, with a decent handle. Or, a medium jewelers screwdriver and possibly pliers to turn it.

The needlebar assembly is in two pieces. The needle is mounted onto a little piece of metal that is screwed onto the needlebar. That screw is above the needle securing screw. Here is the sequence to remove the needlebar:

1. Unscrew the needle holder from the needlebar
2. If your machine has the T bar darning attachment, behind the needlebar, on top, remove it with a 9/16" wrench
3. Use a drift punch to drive out the tapered pin that holds the needlebar to the take-up lever puck. Drive from the back towards you.
4. Drive out the pin holding the take-up lever to its assembly (back towards front) and remove the lever
5. Unscrew the lift height adjusters on the back of the lift assembly
6. Remove the lift assembly from the trapeze, pulling it out of the front
7. Lift the needlebar out of the top
8. Locate the little T shaped thread control spring, just above where the needle holder screws onto the needlebar and carefully unscrew the two tiny screws that secure it. Use two magnets to keep them safe. Keep them in their original positions (left and right) and separated.
9. Remove the spring
10. clean the bar while it is out.
11. Install the new spring and secure it tightly with the little screws. Make sure they are all the way down. Try to install the screws in the same positions, in case they have worn according to their original mounting position.
12. Lightly oil the needlebar and replace it into the top of the hole in the head.
13. Replace the needle lift assembly and its adjusters and the take-up lever pin (front towards back)
14. Replace the pin that holds the needlebar to the needle lifter (front towards back)
15. Re-attach the darning T-bar assembly, if exists.
16. Attach the needle holder assembly and position it so that the needle is centered in the hole in the throat cover plate.
17. You are done at this point

Or, take it to a competent sewing machine mechanic and pay him to do all this.

The second part sounds daunting but nothing I can't handle if the phone doesn't ring, people leave me alone and I've got all day ;-) Only part that is a little intimidating is knocking that pin out, it doesn't sound like you're saying there are any hard to do adjustments in there (kind of unbelievable but if you say so....).

thanks for the tip about the crudded up butterfly. It does look a little cruddy in there if you look up from the needle plate; going to keep oiling it and pray...course if it has to go in for this other issue (s) I'll just leave it.

As for inspecting that spring...I guess I must be an idiot, I can see the slot in the area above the needle, I can spot the two screws that are screwed onto the needle bar up beyond the butterfly but I sure can't see the "paddle," could it be that it's already broken off? That would be annoying.

Can you get a picture of what it's supposed to look like and post it? I guess I'll find out if it's broken when i try to sew won't I; my impression is I won't get good stitches if that is broken. I guess if I'm getting the main drive gear cleaned of grease (and it is grease I put my finger on it and it came off with the consistency of vaseline but it smells like lithium grease), the butterfly straightened out (i.e. not sticking) and that stupid spring repaired that 70 bucks is looking more and more fair.

Aggravating I wanted to play with it this week.

[CowboyBob]

Yes,PB Blaster will help dissolve the grease then get a rag & wipe it out mmaybe even holding the rag w/tweezers since it's kinda tight back there.I won't worry about trying to get it all out just the worst of it & then oiling it will thin it ouit,mainly get any big globs out.

[suem]

Yes,PB Blaster will help dissolve the grease then get a rag & wipe it out mmaybe even holding the rag w/tweezers since it's kinda tight back there.I won't worry about trying to get it all out just the worst of it & then oiling it will thin it ouit,mainly get any big globs out.

Of course the can of blaster is hiding, I have some electronics contact cleaner that says it will dissolve petroleum products. I use this in my computers all the time...think that's ok to use? I also have some of that citrus stuff that from what I've seen will remove paint if left on full strength for long enough, I'm thinking WD 40 would NOT be a good choice. It looks like the worst is in the front behind the plate on that big pin....but I will use the rag suggestion...aggh I'm not even a mechanic and I know that one.

[Wizcrafts]

The second part sounds daunting but nothing I can't handle if the phone doesn't ring, people leave me alone and I've got all day ;-) Only part that is a little intimidating is knocking that pin out, it doesn't sound like you're saying there are any hard to do adjustments in there (kind of unbelievable but if you say so....).

SNIP

As for inspecting that spring, I can see the slot in the area above the needle, I can spot the two screws that are screwed onto the needle bar up beyond the butterfly but I sure can't see the "paddle," could it be that it's already broken off? That would be annoying.

Can you get a picture of what it's supposed to look like and post it?

Here is a closeup of the paddle on the thread regulator spring on the needlebar. Removing the parts, replacing the spring and replacing the parts took me a little over 1 hour; taking my time. It could be done in less time if someone was in a hurry and has experience with doing this. The hold up is usually getting the tapered pins out, without damaging the frames that hold them in place. It also took a few minutes to disassemble the lifting plunger assembly from the trapeze.

Here is the needle lifting plunger and take-up assembly, which also needs to come off, by removing the tapered pins.

[KateC]

What about Keroscene (sp) to clean up the old oil and then use a good sewing machine oil to lube it back up?

[catskin]

Just wondering does the 29K51 have that spring in the needle bar to? If so mine is missing. If it does where are they available?

[Wizcrafts]

Just wondering does the 29K51 have that spring in the needle bar to? If so mine is missing. If it does where are they available?

I got mine from Bob Kovar, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. You might want to get two of the little spring mounting screws and any other screws that are worn on your patcher, while you're at it. His number is: 866-362-7397. He also sells the threading rods, for $5.00.

[catskin]

Thanks Wiz, Wish I'd realized it was missing a few days ago. I am just had some stuff sent from Bob, that spring and a threading rod would not have added much weight. :lol:

[suem]

Here is a closeup of the paddle on the thread regulator spring on the needlebar. Removing the parts, replacing the spring and replacing the parts took me a little over 1 hour; taking my time. It could be done in less time if someone was in a hurry and has experience with doing this. The hold up is usually getting the tapered pins out, without damaging the frames that hold them in place. It also took a few minutes to disassemble the lifting plunger assembly from the trapeze.

Here is the needle lifting plunger and take-up assembly, which also needs to come off, by removing the tapered pins.

Just from your earlier description I was guessing the spring paddle thing is missing, that picture just confirms it.

It apparently must have broken off at some point, you can see the screws on the needle bar holding down what is most likely the top of the spring attachment with the lower piece missing.

Wow, the sellers seemed like a nice older couple, either their mechanic ripped them off or they were not the nice set of folk I thought they were; oh well not completely unexpected.

So I either need to get determined and do it myself or just work a trip to the local tech into the budget and I suppose whilst he has it apart he can clean and lube up the butterfly too.

When we were mounting it on the table, we noticed one of the mounting screw holes on the bottom of the base was broken, not so much it couldn't receive a screw but still broken....sheesh guess that's my luck with industrials..the first machine I bought UPS dropped off a truck or off the pallete in the warehouse and broke the base on that one too (took one corner of the base completely off..one hole mounting screw hole). Fortunately there was insurance...of course UPS fought tooth and nail to avoid paying the claim, but we won in the end. Moral of the story on my first leather machine, UPS drops everything never send a big machine like these anything but freight. We were thinking we could fix that mounting hole with jb weld...are the bases separate on the 72? (I can't tell)

(As for the question about the 58 having that spring...I'd bet it does, Singer seems to have found a good thing and just kept improving it...they all look pretty similar to me at first glance and if you look at the parts manuals a huge number of stuff is the same on a number of them.)

FYI...I looked at home depot and asked a few questions about removing grease/oil...no one really knew about anything but the blaster. I think the orange stuff would do it but it wouldn't be something you'd want to get on paint because I KNOW from past experience that left on long enough it will dissolve paint, even the bottled variety sold for the kitchen will.

Like I said I build a lot of computers, dirty contacts (grease oil corrosion) are issues. The can says it "dissolves petroleum products" and I also thought the contact cleaner would be good because it dries with no residue and "shouldn't" hurt rubber (i.e. all the plastic coating wiring in the system). I tried that and it took it right off one good spray or two, used a paper towel to catch the drips and rubbed around back there as much as I could. I also used the contact cleaner to try to clean out the butterfly and that HELPED a lot but I guess now we know that the spring is broke....but if it's completely broke I bet that isn't why the butterfly head is stiff? (since it was said if it was 'twisted" that could stick it up, but this isn't twisted it's completely broken off) The head has gone from catching in two places to catching in one now soo it probably is/ was all gummed up, the contact cleaner got a lot of black stuff to drip out when I sprayed it good.

Thank you so very much for everything everyone!!!!!

If I could send you all a big batch of home made cookies I'd do that!!!!!.

[suem]

Use a drift punch to drive out the tapered pin that holds the needlebar to the take-up lever puck. Drive from the back towards you.

Drive out the pin holding the take-up lever to its assembly (back towards front) and remove the lever

......

I'm confused about which pins have to come out????

I've decided to try this. I'm having a little trouble with your terminology. Can you please send a couple of pictures of the pins that have to come out? I understand the big one that attaches the "trapeze(???)" aka take up lever (or is the take up lever the thing on top of the trapeze that thread is threaded through?) to the needle bar but I don't understand which other pin has to come out...i.e. take up lever????

Drift punch...I'm assuming this tool has other names? Lowes doesn't carry anything called a drift pin punch neither does harbor freight. Northern tools has a drift pin punch set but they're huge and they want almost two hundred for the set. I found a "punch" set at lowes for 12.99 in looking at pictures I believe this is the same thing.

Back on the subject of the sticky butterfly...I hope when I get in here that I find the pieces of that thread spring jammed up in there or that I can finally get to whatever is gunking up the head but if that doesn't fix it..... I saw something called a "butterfly friction spring" in the parts list. I grabbed one at the same time I got the thread springs, was wondering if this could be the sticky butterfly problem and if it is what sort of a PITA is it to fix that. Since I'm going to have that all apart anyway might as well do that too. It wasn't an expensive part, like five bucks.

I am so anxious to get this running right, I've got a pair of fishing boots that fit me great other than my calves expanded when I started Kung Fu so they're too tight around my thunder calves anymore, I'm going to slit the side and add some marine vinyl to expand the top and seal the new seams, may not be as water tight as before but I don't really care too much about that as long as they fit. I couldn't figure out how to sew that patch in but this should handle that famously--this is what it's for after all, LOL.

Thanks so very much again for all the help.

[Wizcrafts]

Suem;

I strongly advise you to take the machine head to a professional sewing machine mechanic. Without the proper tools and know how, you may damage the moving parts beyond repairability.

[Art]

Bob and Wiz have given good instructions and advice here, you might want to send the head off to a good mechanic if you are still having trouble, PREFERABLY a Singer (not modern) mechanic. Why an old singer mechanic? Because they know that Singer screws had positively the wackiest thread system in creation (ok the world, I have no idea what the Klingons use). Good old Singer mechanics have screw collections salvaged from old junkers etc. I have an old Singer screw chart somewhere, but I suppose someone knows where one is on the Internet, if so please post it here. I have heard stories of Singer thread gauges, but have never seen one.

If you have a 29 (or 30), get it running and keep it, there are just some things only it will do, and if you have a repair business, a 29 or a post or both are pretty much must have things (unless you LIKE hand work).

If you have to take it to a mechanic, first thing to do is contact the local shoe repair guy and see if he knows who to take it to.

Art

[suem]

Bob and Wiz have given good instructions and advice here, you might want to send the head off to a good mechanic if you are still having trouble, PREFERABLY a Singer (not modern) mechanic. Why an old singer mechanic? Because they know that Singer screws had positively the wackiest thread system in creation (ok the world, I have no idea what the Klingons use). Good old Singer mechanics have screw collections salvaged from old junkers etc. I have an old Singer screw chart somewhere, but I suppose someone knows where one is on the Internet, if so please post it here. I have heard stories of Singer thread gauges, but have never seen one.

If you have a 29 (or 30), get it running and keep it, there are just some things only it will do, and if you have a repair business, a 29 or a post or both are pretty much must have things (unless you LIKE hand work).

If you have to take it to a mechanic, first thing to do is contact the local shoe repair guy and see if he knows who to take it to.

Art

Maybe you're right, I guess if I don't get the terminology I'm at a disadvantage aren't I. The man I have down the street is a wizened old industrial mechanic; been fixing them for years. I'll ask him but I bet he can handle it, now if I can just handle his fee... I got the parts so he wouldn't have to mess with getting them, maybe he'll be kinder on the bill. Thanks for everything folks.

[suem]

Ok after much staring at the instructions and looking at diagrams and asking questions of a friend whose dad was an industrial mechanic when he was young, I've got the needle bar out of the machine. As usual, I have this tendency to overcomplicate things until I do it the first time. It was really nothing once I could associate the parts you were talking about with the instructions.

You know...if the stupid little screws on the tension spring weren't stuck as they apparently are on mine, you really don't seem to have to pull the needle bar all the way out. If you take off the needle holder and the foot (and you probably don't have to take the foot off) the needle bar will drop down far enough to reach the screws without pulling the bar (you only have to knock that one big pin out on top of the needle bar and I found a set of punches at lowes to do that job easily) but I can also see the wisdom in pulling the needle bar completely and lubricating it while you are in there.

My spring screws are frozen in there so hard I can't find a jeweler's screwdriver that will move them (and I have quite a collection). I'm afraid to screw with it too much for fear of stripping them out and really being screwed. I've messed a little with stubborn screws in the past but these are so tiny...afraid to use the usual methods. Going to get some blaster and hope that may free them. I guess if I can't get them out I'm looking at a needle bar...any idea what a large bobbin needle bar for the 29k 72 is running? I saw one on ebay for a hundred bucks (ouch).

Now that the bar is dropped the butterfly turns freely...I found that the butterfly spring on top was a bit broken on one end....I hope when it goes back together it then moves freely.

Any thoughts on getting those two terrifically tiny and apparently quite frozen spring screws out?

Who can sell me a couple of sets of those screws? My british place has them but the shipping is silly for a few bucks worth of parts if I can't get them over here...which I think I can because I think I saw somebody talking about these screws.

Thanks.

[amuckart]

Hi Suem,

I have a page with a little information on this class of machine here: http://alasdair.muck...singerpatchers/

At the bottom of the page are some documents written by a chap by the name of Ken Jerrems who originally posted them on Needlebar but gave me permission to host them once they became unavailable from there.

He has a pretty good set of diagrams and explanation of how the heads of these machines work.

The one thing I would say about stripping a machine like this is get a good set of proper pin punches they make life much easier and will save you marring the head trying to get pins out with something improvised.

[Wizcrafts]

Suem;

Get a pin flame torch and train it on the needlebar, around those little screws. This may expand the steel enough to loosen the screws. Alternately, or additionally, insert the screw driver and tap on it with a small hammer as you twist it counterclockwise between your other thumb and middle finger. Chances are this will free it.