Slaughter Free Leather Not Selling As Expected

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

There was a whole thread recently on VEGAN leather. A guy was looking to get naturally deceased leather because his girlfriend was a vegan. She was opposed to killing cows for food, and the leather made from them. But she was OK with leather made from a cow that had died naturally.

Yes, I could see a market for this type of leather, as well as a higher market price. Do a little research and you can come up with quite a bit on vegan friendly items. They tend to lean towards cotton, hemp, wood, and other sustainable materials. There are some that advocate synthetics for shoes, clothing, etc due to their aversion to animals being used for food, or other products. I'll tell ya, after seeing a video of dogs, and other animals being skinned alive on Chinese fur farms ,I can see their point. Fur is one thing, and leather is another, since leather is a byproduct of the meat industry. Cows are not raised for just their hides.

If a letter could be provided that could be photocopied showing the provenance of these hides, and I wanted to market to vegans, I would get some. As for the damage, a lot of vegans, as well as others interested in more organic items are not put off by an item not being perfect. Naturally grown, or formed items are seldom perfect like corporate factory items are. As a matter of fact it could be used as a marketing point; harvest markings for example.

So, what does this all mean? You can buy the hides that Siegel has for sale, or you don't. No need to call his business dealings into question. As with any retail business you have to take some gambles as to what the customers will want to buy from you. This one didn't work out for him as well as he had hoped. No biggie, you cut your losses, and move on.

Edited December 18, 2010 by BIGGUNDOCTOR

[StevenSiegel]

Hi,

This is Steven Siegel.

These are interesting comments.

The intent, believe it or not, was to help our industry. As a commodity, leather is grossly underpriced and the people who work in the industry as makers are generally not equitably rewarded for their knowledge and labor as compared to other industries. Just ask most custom saddle makers how many hours they put into learning their trade, the hours necessary to produce a saddle and the dollars received for a finished product.

As far as proof of origin, this part was easy as, if the product was "successful" a chain of custody letter could have been supplied for EVERY side, from the original ranch, to the intermediary, to the tanner.

Any particular questions would be appreciated.

[bkingery]

Interested to be sure, my questions would be 1-how long was it in the field 2-what kind of deterioration is there on average because lets face it dead things rot 3- have you Steven been asked for a particular item of this nature 4- what kind of tannage 5- what is the temper and how come it is so thick and can YOU split it. I personally think that the drag marks might be kinda cool depending on the severity you could use them as a tearout design for tattoo type stuff, or just make stuff look old and incorporate the scratches. If I wasn't past my budget for the month already i would think of buying some but I can't afford to blow my nose at the moment so maybe later. Good effort SIR.

P.S. any of us that read the forum alot sure do remember the Vegan Girlfriend, Wonder whatever happened to that guy.

Peace and Love

Bryan

[TexasJack]

Just makes me laugh! The whole idea of leather being "OK" if the animal died in the pasture is ridiculous. Most people that (are crazy enough) to hate leather and fur will hate it no matter where it comes from.

Eat the meat, tan the leather, make things out of the leather - and ignore weenies that find fault with any of that.

[Denise]

People who hold strong convictions about something are often very motivated to put their money where their mouth is and will pay extra for products that fit into those convictions. You can see this with organic food, a large proportion of which is purchased by more affluent moms with small children. Working with leather of this kind would be a niche market for sure, but one that could be very profitable for those motivated to get into it. Those of us who live a more rural lifestyle don't have access to that market since our community/culture is anything but vegan, but for those working in the larger centers that are more likely to have friends/family/connections to the vegan world, and I can see a small niche market for this leather. But figuring out what to make and how to sell it would be a big job.

[UKRay]

I was fascinated by this thread and had to see where it went. From a marketing perspective, 'natural death' has a number of fairly major issues - some good and some bad, but all interesting.

Let's start with the concept of 'natural death' - Death is rarely a marketing advantage, but it wouldn't take marketing people long to sit down and think up a new way to describe this particular kind of demise. One that sounded as though the critter had lived a long and excessively happy (possibly even dissolute) life and was overjoyed to be giving its hide to make your boots, bag, belt (insert appropriate item here). Maybe as a way of making up for the fun it had.

Okay, so we now have a leather that is a by-product of farmyard fun and frolics rather than the meat industry. I can't see a problem with that.

The meat hater isn't going to change their attitude, but lets face it, plastic shoes are pretty grim. Sweaty feet are just the start... Plastic bags? I don't think so. Plastic belts? Well maybe, but they won't be selling out any time soon... leather is a natural product, perfect for a whole range of tasks and if it is marketed in the right way will sell - even to some of those who wouldn't normally buy.

If I lived in the US, I'd be on the phone to Mr Siegel right now ordering a couple of hides and making up some 'Special order only' bags that carry a premium because the leather came from HAPPY cows.

In the UK, people pay a premium for eggs that come from 'happy' chickens - in other words: free range, properly nourished birds that roam free and are not kept in battery cages. This is exactly the same idea and, frankly, I think it could be a winner. I just wish I had easy access to the stuff over here.

Ray

[StevenSiegel]

HI,

This is Steve Siegel again.

I have read the posts and would like to respond.

I am not very good at communicating by this medium. Frequently, I am misunderstood. My intentions are only for the best for all, without any judgements. What is written below is not meant to offend or "preach" to anyone. If my words should appear this way to anyone, I apologize now as they are only meant to be informative and a source of exchanging information.

1) RE Photos of defects

I would like very much to be able to shoot photos which accurately presented all defects in a piece of leather such as warbles, healed scars, and their concentration, loose grain, open grain, locations and concentrations, holes, locations, size, etc. Leather is a very unique product which can not be easily "graded" by a standardized system. This is a big problem for the multi billion dollar shoe industry. With all of the resources that they have available, they cannot standardize a "selection". Leather is a commodity which is tactile and visual; thus somewhat subjective. Over the years we have found that it is best to "grade" leather according to it's intended use. For example, the same leather which could be used for chaps, handbags or shoes would be graded differently for each of these applications. The chap maker would need to cut large, defect-free pattern pieces, with not much concern for tensile strength. The bag maker, cutting smaller patterns, could cut around an occasional defect without losing yield. The bootmaker who is cutting smaller patterns must be particularly concerned about the tensile strength of the leather so that it can be lasted, without the grain opening. If anyone can send me a couple of pictures that would represent what they would like to see on a web / email, please send them along to me at siegel.leather@gmail.com . I am always interested to learn something new. It would help me and others to learn how to communicate this more effectively to the public. (This is the reason that our company has always had a policy of free freight and free return freight to indicate that our intention is to pick leather as if, the customer was persoanlly picking the leather. No other leather company has this policy.)

2) Re: Defects of Slaughter Free Sides

The drag marks are not throughout the hide. The price of $80 / side is ridiculously inexpensive. The leather is tanned in the USA. It is a typical "strap" leather tannage at full substance, meaning that it will be better than leather that has been split from "skirting" leather to produce the same substance.

3) Re: Politics of This Stufft

People are people. Everyone has a different opinion. The concept was to offer a product which would allow our customers to make an additional profit that they could not make otherwise. Even the organization, PETA, which had been investigated for it's involvement as a domestic terrorist organization and is opposed to leather, would probably endorse this product. I believe this because the figurehead of PETA has put in her will that she would like her skin, after she dies to be converted to leather. I used to travel worldwide frequently. In the heart of our country, at the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport, during our previous President's tenure, I noticed PETA ads throughout the airport as public service announcements., provided free of charge by the people of Texas. They had been up for 4 years at the time that I noticed them and had a discussion with Texas law enforcement. . They were permanently removed within 1 week.. The point is, even in the most unlikely of places, there is a "movement" about that has this concept about leather

4) Re: Why Slaughter-Free?

If the hides are not converted to a useable product, they would, otherwise be disposed of to decay back to dust... This is re-cyled without the "carbon footprint" cost which many re-cylcled products require. In regard to decomposition:

a) It's a function of temperature and time. All of the leather which we sell would have the tensile strength necessary for the intended use.

[UKRay]

You may need to stay with this a little longer, Steve. People are notoriously slow in accepting new ideas even if, like this, the idea is a great one.

Having spoken to a number of leatherworkers in the UK since replying to this thread, I'm even more convinced it has huge potential over here. If the US doesn't want it, why not think about export?

Ray

[oldtimer]

Why not extend the market with slaughter free beef along with slaughter free leather !?

Edited December 19, 2010 by oldtimer

[Randy Cornelius]

To bad they don't come in heavy weight, I would use them for stirrup leathers for saddle repair.