Slaughter Free Leather Not Selling As Expected

[StevenSiegel]

Interesting subject.

Now to through a cat in the tub of feathers. (as the saying around here is)

A question for Steve. Would all the horses that are dying in the US since horse slaughter for food, has been banned, from all sorts of things including starvation and the "pet" horses that are killed with a needle (by a vet ) qualify for this program?

I am sorry, but this question is too close to home. We have 15 head of horses, many of which we would give away for free, but cannot because the market is "so bad". All, except for 2 are American Thoroughbreds. We don't have children and our horses, honestly, are our family. In Kentucky, horses are being let loose to run wild in the National Forest. Many people talk about locking their gates at night, not for fear that someone will steal a horse, but that someone will leave a couple more in the pasture to be fed by someone else.

From an "intellectual" standpoint, most of the horses in the US would not have hides suitable for leather production.

Edited December 20, 2010 by StevenSiegel

[catskin]

Steve I didn't mean any harm with my question, just wondered since some may not consider a needle SLAUGHTER. Being from Canada I've read some of the stories as to what some people have done with horses. And some is NOT nice.

[bkingery]

I'm just curious but has ANYONE on here bought any of these freakin hides, for the most part all anyone has to say is wheather or not its ethical or not or politically correct. I say WHO CARES and why should we, we buy leather, we use leather everyday and appreciate it for what it is The freakin skin from a dead animal, has anyone used it, is it good for anything, is it crap, I doubt it. I have read almost every post on this site about where to get good to great leather and just take a geuss where we're told to go Seigel leather HUH go figure that the guy you all are giving BS to for trying to do a good thing for all of us is one of the ones that has been doing this business for a damn longtime and I think he deserves a littl more respect than to be nagged about the politics of leather. Steve if I could afford it I would buy some just to see what it was like.

sorry had to vent

B

[StevenSiegel]

Steve I didn't mean any harm with my question, just wondered since some may not consider a needle SLAUGHTER. Being from Canada I've read some of the stories as to what some people have done with horses. And some is NOT nice.

NO Offense taken

Thanks,

Seve

[mendedbowl]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for trying to help grow the leather industry. I know you've been in the leather business a long time, so you have lots of experience and knowledge. You obviously have a vested interest in wanting the leather industry to grow, ( and so should every leatherworker ). Earlier you stated that market research indicated there was potential demand for leather goods made from this type of hide, but for some reason the people who buy from you (the leatherworkers) didn't buy the slaughter free hides as well as you had expected.

What i'm seeing from the comments being made here is that most, but not all, of the leather workers on this forum do not hold the same views about leather hides as most vegans or PETA, and they don't really see the demand for slaughter free leather goods.

Is it possible for you to share your market research with us here? let the leather workers who live in areas where the demand is higher see the potential sales they could enjoy. I'm an unrepentant capitalist; to me it's a shame to see a demand go unmet because of a lack of knowledge within the supply chain.

ken

[mendedbowl]

And on a side note for anyone interested:

personally i don't care how the animals lived, how they were treated, or how they were slaughtered and skinned. All i'm interested in is getting a good hide at a good price. It just so happens that the best way for the producer to get me a good hide at a good price also happens to be the most ethical way to treat an animal that is raised for it's meat.

For meat producers to make the most profit they must be efficient. That means feed them good, keep them healthy, and kill them quickly. The same practices that produce good quality meat for the market also produces good quality hides for the tanner.

The desire for optimum profit reduces the chances of mistreatment, because in the end any form of mistreatment costs more than it's worth.

ken

[Lasse C]

As a little extra comment I am worried that if "non-slaughter" leather is considered something very special and paid accordingly, it would be an open invitation to unscrupolous people. I doubt that "retired" milking cows would be slaughtered for meat to any significant extent. If "non-slaughter" hides from these animals pay better than conventional hides it will be economically sound to let these animals die from neglect and/or starvation rather than to take care of them properly.

Is that really what we want?

Is that a way to make leather more acceptable and more in demand?

I don´t think so. I really don´t.

Lasse C

[bkingery]

As a little extra comment I am worried that if "non-slaughter" leather is considered something very special and paid accordingly, it would be an open invitation to unscrupolous people. I doubt that "retired" milking cows would be slaughtered for meat to any significant extent. If "non-slaughter" hides from these animals pay better than conventional hides it will be economically sound to let these animals die from neglect and/or starvation rather than to take care of them properly.

Is that really what we want?

Is that a way to make leather more acceptable and more in demand?

I don´t think so. I really don´t.

Lasse C

Yes there are unscrupulous people out there but try to think about it this way, what happens to a person that is old, the skin is loose and wrinkly, what happens to a person who is starved, the skin is loose and wrinkly and has little to no resililiency, no stretch, no bounce back. Now what about the healthy person that dies suddenly the skin is just the same as it was before they died. morbid and sad but true. so why would a person that is trying to sell "non slaughtered leather" mistreat the animals they are trying to sell for it. It would just be counter productive, unless your gonna sell the skins for dog chews what would be the point. I'm sure from a tanners perspective that these hides are very much more intensive to process, and just like us the more work we do hopefully the more money we can get for our efforts.

[bruce johnson]

As a little extra comment I am worried that if "non-slaughter" leather is considered something very special and paid accordingly, it would be an open invitation to unscrupolous people. I doubt that "retired" milking cows would be slaughtered for meat to any significant extent. If "non-slaughter" hides from these animals pay better than conventional hides it will be economically sound to let these animals die from neglect and/or starvation rather than to take care of them properly.

Is that really what we want?

Is that a way to make leather more acceptable and more in demand?

I don´t think so. I really don´t.

Lasse C

Lasse,

At least in the US, retired dairy cows are slaughtered to a huge extent. They almost all go to slaughter if they can walk. It is how the dairy people recoup some of their investment, much like spent laying hens go to soup. It is also how they use "buy-out" programs to send cows to slaughter and reduce milking cow numbers in oversupply/low milk prices times.

The hides on these dairy cows tend to be bigger than beef hides although thinner. They are generally not branded (although a lot in my area are), and tend to have less scarring. They are still a by-product of the cattle industry, not the primary goal. Not many producers worry about the hide value at any point in the production of beef or dairy cattle.

[oldtimer]

As a little extra comment I am worried that if "non-slaughter" leather is considered something very special and paid accordingly, it would be an open invitation to unscrupolous people. I doubt that "retired" milking cows would be slaughtered for meat to any significant extent. If "non-slaughter" hides from these animals pay better than conventional hides it will be economically sound to let these animals die from neglect and/or starvation rather than to take care of them properly.

Is that really what we want?

Is that a way to make leather more acceptable and more in demand?

I don´t think so. I really don´t.

Lasse C

Lasse, I can assure you that all healthy milking cows in Sweden are slaughtered for meat production when their career as milk producers is over . You´ll know when you chew a chunk of "leathery" beef !

/ knut