Taking Money Away From The Small Guy

[reddevil76]

This is a side I received from Tandy. I took several pics, and they ARE representative of the ENTIRE hide. TANDY CAN SUE ME IF THEY WISH TO DISPUTE THAT!!

I am extremely angry now because they have simply not replied to my emails about this. I am fully aware this is advertised as a economy side. But look at it this way, I not only pay for the leather, I have to pay for the shipping as well. Which is about $35. So for every inch that is unusable, not only the leather money goes down the drain, so does the shipping money. And I would have been happy if I can get 10 sq ft of clean leather out of a 24-26 sq ft economy side. BUT THE ENTIRE SIDE???

There was also a $5.59 per sq ft calf veg tan which was advertised as clean carving leather. Clean! It is almost as bad as this economy 3-4 oz side! I was so angry when I saw it that I used the lace cutter to cut half of it into lace simply because I could not stand looking at it. I made a mistake of braiding a couple of cords plus lined 4 wallets. It was a desparate attempt to myself to justify the purchase of it and also to used it so I don't have to look at it. But it was a mistake, because what is not usable, simply shouldn't be used. I ended up throwing away the cords, and then had the wallets returned from unhappy customers, and I threw them away. So I also wasted the HO leather which was used to create the wallet outers and inners.

Before, already I would received one liner brusque replies to my enquiries. Now there is a problem, NO REPLY! AGAIN, SUE ME IF I HAVE SAID SOMETHING UNTRUE!

They give me the feeling that they take overseas customers as easy prey and send the lousiest leather to them as it is more difficult for them to return the leather. But do we pay any lesser than US customers? Should we be treated this way? Is this preying on the small guy to line the pockets of the corporate big wigs?

I HATE TANDY LEATHER FACTORY! Now i just have to go dig out our family book of curses.

I am considering setting up a website just dedicated to showcasing these leather they have exchanged for my hard earned money.

[RMB Custom Leather]

I quit buying leather there awhile ago because you can get it cheaper and better hides at other places. I buy my leather from Zach Whites, Waterhouse, and Siegal's

[reddevil76]

I understand alot of people found their ideal supplier by shopping around. But sometimes, the act of shopping around simply just depletes your entire budget before you could even properly start off.

I did get some H.Oak from Springfield, which is ok, but does not suit my needs. I don't need leather that carves well, but need them to be clean clean clean. Jill from Springfield has offered to send me samples of another leather which is in the same price range but cleaner (import).

I am waiting on the samples right now. But sometimes, these acts from companies like Tandy just zaps the energy out of you. I almost sold my entire set of tools just after receiving this Tandy side. Really felt like I could not just keep taking loans, hoping to make something to pay it off, and then receiving another useless side, and taking another loan to order more.

Maybe you guys are stronger than me, but this shopping for leather just depresses me, literally. Tandy, ironically, has taken the joy out of leathercrafting for me.

[Johnny B]

I understand alot of people found their ideal supplier by shopping around. But sometimes, the act of shopping around simply just depletes your entire budget before you could even properly start off.

I did get some H.Oak from Springfield, which is ok, but does not suit my needs. I don't need leather that carves well, but need them to be clean clean clean. Jill from Springfield has offered to send me samples of another leather which is in the same price range but cleaner (import).

I am waiting on the samples right now. But sometimes, these acts from companies like Tandy just zaps the energy out of you. I almost sold my entire set of tools just after receiving this Tandy side. Really felt like I could not just keep taking loans, hoping to make something to pay it off, and then receiving another useless side, and taking another loan to order more.

Maybe you guys are stronger than me, but this shopping for leather just depresses me, literally. Tandy, ironically, has taken the joy out of leathercrafting for me.

I am lucky to have a Tandy's close by. I actually pick my leather that I want. I recently went thru about 15 hides before I found a perfect one. A whole 6/7 ounce hide with almost perfect leather on every square inch. They sell the economy shoulders that are far from perfect but these make great distressed holsters and sheaths. They also have boxes of scrap leather that I can purchase per pound. I always look in these boxes and purchase leather from them on occasion. Some really nice pieces in there ranging from 2/3 sq feet to sometimes 8/9 sq feet. I once found a piece of alligator, maybe 4sq feet and it cost me like $5.00. Made a couple of holsters and several inlays with it. That one piece made me about $400.00 profit.

Sorry that you have had a bad experience with Tandy. I have been more than satisfied with them but I never mail order from them.

[reddevil76]

Yes, I found that people who told me that they are satisfied with Tandy are usually the ones who walk in and choose their leather.

For the 15 hides you went through, you found only one good one. For the rest, it has to go somewhere, right? Is it the right thing to dump it on us, the mail order customers.

I feel, to be fair, if they have problems selling these hides to walk in customers, they should not just see mail order customers as an outlet for them to get rid of these leather. Instead they should either speak with their supplier, or stop importing these leather, or REPRESENT IT ACCURATELY as covered with insect bites, and not use the word occasional.

As it is, it does not add character to any project of mine but just adds more crap to my scrap bin. If you can call a complete 24 sq ft side a scrap.

I have a customer who mentioned he was interested in picking up leather craft. After giving him some tips on what is necessary to order, I discovered that he is going to the US to study in July. I told how much I envy him as he could actually walk in to a store and pick out his leather instead of sending money across the continent and crossing my fingers hoping I won't be burnt for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc... time.

I should just pick up another hobby.

[Ferg]

Yes, I found that people who told me that they are satisfied with Tandy are usually the ones who walk in and choose their leather.

For the 15 hides you went through, you found only one good one. For the rest, it has to go somewhere, right? Is it the right thing to dump it on us, the mail order customers.

I feel, to be fair, if they have problems selling these hides to walk in customers, they should not just see mail order customers as an outlet for them to get rid of these leather. Instead they should either speak with their supplier, or stop importing these leather, or REPRESENT IT ACCURATELY as covered with insect bites, and not use the word occasional.

As it is, it does not add character to any project of mine but just adds more crap to my scrap bin. If you can call a complete 24 sq ft side a scrap.

I have a customer who mentioned he was interested in picking up leather craft. After giving him some tips on what is necessary to order, I discovered that he is going to the US to study in July. I told how much I envy him as he could actually walk in to a store and pick out his leather instead of sending money across the continent and crossing my fingers hoping I won't be burnt for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc... time.

I should just pick up another hobby.

Sorry for your obvious frustration. I have dealt with Tandy for many years and have had only a few problems, they were taken care of promptly. I have found that the managers of the stores have a lot to do with how much second grade leather you may receive.

Seriously though, if this has you this upset you are in far a lot of disappointment in any business endeavor.

ferg

[reddevil76]

Ferg,

I guess I am being very emotional about it. But I guess it depends on where the individual is in life at the moment.

One year ago, I would have just wrote it off and forgot about it and moved on. Right now, things are just a little different. And ironically, leatherwork was suppose to help me along while keeping me busy. Yet, due to such issues, it has sunk me deeper.

Take a plate away from a diner in Hooters, he might abuse you verbally and call you a crazy. Take the food from the hands of a starving Somali and he might just kill you to get it back.

Dylan

[Billy P]

Hey Dylan, a few years ago, I ordered one of those Craftsman sides in 3/4 oz. When it came it had holes all over it about the size of a U.S. quarter(.25 cent) coin. I called and they said no problem they would send me another one. What they sent was the Tandy Live Oak, most expensive leather they had, plus a bill for another $47.00, to replace that bad hide. They knew that I am on a limited income and only do leather work as a hobby, so that extra cost hurt me too. Since then I haven't ordered much from them. I usually use SpringField Leather, S-T Leather, or Zach White. I do go to the Charlotte N.C. store on occasion, when I'm up that way, but I go in and pick out what I want/need. It wasn't the Charlotte store that did that to me, and they are mostly really good people up there. The other store has good people, but I felt that before they sent me something that cost almost twice as much, they should have called me and let me have the option, to get that or not. Just my .02 worth. Whatever, don't give up, because there a lot more suppliers out there. Billy P

[wildrose]

I have used Tandy 90% of the time for almost 20 yrs now. On occasion, I ordered from Hidecrafters, though it's been a while. I get a business discount from Tandy, so prices make it worth it for me.

I also buy alot of my products from Michaels or AC Moore craft stores. I mention that to show you where I'm coming from. At Michaels, as an example, I will search through 10 wood boxes (made in China, or wherever) to find one good one. But shopping there, I know what I'm in for.

Tandy is much the same: you get what you pay for. I myself have been happy with them the majority of the time. For years, I selected the leather in-store, but now I am too far from a store, and I mail order. The store in Charlotte, NC has been terrific to deal with. They are polite and send me exactly what I ask for. I also had a positive experience with the Raleigh store. Prior to moving south, I dealt with stores in the Baltimore, MD and Allentown, PA area. Was happy overall with them too.

As with any business, there are ups and downs, happy customers and unhappy ones. I am really sorry to hear about your negative experience, because I know about the lost revenue and expense. I would only ask that you either take your business elsewhere, or give them another chance. Take a deep breath and move on - we all have our "learning experiences" - even those that are painful.

[newfiebackflip]

I am in the same boat. Leather suppliers in Canada are very few and far between and the prices are always brutal because they know its either buy online and pay expensive shipping plus shipping time or buy our expensive crap.

So its now come to the point that I am just waiting for my credit card and I am going to buy a few in bulk.

[jeeperaz]

I have a tandy store less than 2 miles from my house. I rarely shop there as I find just about everything they have to be of inferior quality to products availble elsewhere... at the same cost.

[Art]

Hi Flipper,

Gas up, head South, avoid the lake, about 200 miles later you will be in Curwensville, Pennsylvania, USA and the home of Wickett and Craig. They have everything you would want from vegtanland. However, they can be trusted to send you the best of whatever leather you need, finished the way you want. Want it split, they'll do it and you get the split too if you ask, one side, they'll do it, just call 1-800-TANNERY.

That is where we get our veg anymore, they are good folks.

Art

I am in the same boat. Leather suppliers in Canada are very few and far between and the prices are always brutal because they know its either buy online and pay expensive shipping plus shipping time or buy our expensive crap.

So its now come to the point that I am just waiting for my credit card and I am going to buy a few in bulk.

[whinewine]

Hi Flipper,

Gas up, head South, avoid the lake, about 200 miles later you will be in Curwensville, Pennsylvania, USA and the home of Wickett and Craig. They have everything you would want from vegtanland. However, they can be trusted to send you the best of whatever leather you need, finished the way you want. Want it split, they'll do it and you get the split too if you ask, one side, they'll do it, just call 1-800-TANNERY.

That is where we get our veg anymore, they are good folks.

Art

And let me know if/when you're coming (via pm). I live about an hour south. We could meet up (& crash at my place if you're tired).

russ

[Spinner]

Hi Flipper,

Gas up, head South, avoid the lake, about 200 miles later you will be in Curwensville, Pennsylvania, USA and the home of Wickett and Craig. They have everything you would want from vegtanland. However, they can be trusted to send you the best of whatever leather you need, finished the way you want. Want it split, they'll do it and you get the split too if you ask, one side, they'll do it, just call 1-800-TANNERY.

That is where we get our veg anymore, they are good folks.

Art

Same here. I'm in California and do mail order with W&C and have had nothing but nice leather come from them.

Gets here pretty quick too. Just tell them what grade/quality you're looking for and they'll pick it for you.

They'll even cut and then split if needed. Someone just recently made mention of ordering a side that they had cut in half and had the halves split to two different thicknesses.

[cem]

I am in the same boat. Leather suppliers in Canada are very few and far between and the prices are always brutal because they know its either buy online and pay expensive shipping plus shipping time or buy our expensive crap.

So its now come to the point that I am just waiting for my credit card and I am going to buy a few in bulk.

Same here in West Oz there are two shops and one wholesaler, the two shops lets just say I won't touch them for leather I'm not about to remortgage my house for access to their expensive offerings. The wholesaler is pretty good when they have what I want in stock otherwise it's a wait for them to get stock from Sydney and they may or may not send what I want.

The other Sydney supplier that carries Hermann Oak and Wickett & Craig which I currently want to try seems to have an adversion of wanting to sell me stuff. I've been waiting over a week for them to get back to me. I think it might be easier just to use Springfield for Hermann Oak and deal with Wickett Craig directly even if I just have to get a full side.

Edited March 2, 2011 by cem

[TexasJack]

Tandy is kinda the Walmart of leather suppliers. They have a little of everything, the quality varies from barely useful to mostly OK, and they have stores all over the place. They are what they are. There aren't many who've become millionaires making leather goods. (Any?) There probably aren't many millionaires who decide to take up leathercraft. So Tandy serves a purpose. There are places that sell better stuff and they get a premium for that. It's all part of business.

You had a bad experience with Tandy, and we all understand the frustration. I hope your next purchase works out better, whether it's from Tandy or someone else.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

That is why I never mail order certain items like leather, and shoes. What you need to do is find a shop that has a sales person that will work with you, that you can email a pic to or that will understand exactly what you are expecting to get. and who you can ask for each time you call. I have a Tandy down the road from me in Fabulous Las Vegas, so I can pick out what I may need,sorry that you do not have the same opportunity to do so yourself. I am actually fairly surprised that you don't have better access to leather with your location considering how many leather goods are made that way.

When I was heavy into the gun parts a number of years ago I found a company that had a salesman that hit it off with me. He would call with specials on military surplus items that they had, and he would give me the no BS answer when I asked about condition, It they were dented, or dinged he told me. I still bought alot from him because I knew exactly what I was going to get. After awhile he knew what I liked, and he would call if something came in that might interest me. Over the years we developed a good business relationship.

Don't give up, and that scrap leather has lots of uses. Try making some sandals, and use it for the soles. It could also be used for stacked handles, or utility items like ax sheaths, work cuffs, and other things that don't have to be pretty, just work.

[cem]

I know your frustration when it comes to ordering leather reddevil finally heard back from supplier which is good except they don't do smaller cuts on the Hermann Oak and Wickett & Craig (would of liked to try it first before getting full sides), I wish they had put that on their website it would of saved me some time and I could of had some on it's way from overseas by now. I think I will be doing what BIGGUNDOCTOR suggested I'm gearing up for at least a part time business by the end of the year and need to find a good supplier.

[Chief31794]

I like buying leather from Zack White, they Split it to the thickness you prescribe, sell it reasonable, and ship it very fast. I use Tandy a lot with the elite membership, however, if I want a side of leather to work with, Tom the store manager in Jacksonville, FL (150 miles away) takes my order, I then explain what I'm looking for and he goes through the piles making sure I get what I need. Great guy to work with. I still won't buy most hardware (purse closures, etc from him because the quality is non existent), I buy most of my hardware from the Ohio Travel Bag company. Great folks there as well. I've had very few bad experiences with either of them and when I do get something from Tandy that isn't right, I call Tom and he makes it right quick. I visit the store about once a month (My Mom lives in Jacksonville) and make it a point to talk with Tom and build a relationship so that I'm not just an anonymous voice on the phone. As for tools, particularly stamps, I don't like to buy from Tandy unless I see them and try them out on some scrap in the store before I purchase them to ensure they are sharp and no defects in the face. The last several stamps I have bought have been Barry King and those I don't have to go try but at $25-60 at BK vs $4.80 for elite price at Tandy you have to weigh that in. After weighing, I am buying most of my stamps (and I seldom need any as I have a large quantity) from Barry King.

Ken

Edited March 2, 2011 by Chief31794

[reddevil76]

I know your frustration when it comes to ordering leather reddevil finally heard back from supplier which is good except they don't do smaller cuts on the Hermann Oak and Wickett & Craig (would of liked to try it first before getting full sides), I wish they had put that on their website it would of saved me some time and I could of had some on it's way from overseas by now. I think I will be doing what BIGGUNDOCTOR suggested I'm gearing up for at least a part time business by the end of the year and need to find a good supplier.

When making a wallet for example, it might just need 2 sq foot of leather. But then, there will wastage, or worse, mistakes. On top of that, for the entire side, not every inch is usable, especially when the defects are in inconvenient places. With all these adding up, if we can save on shipping, we try. If it means a little wait for the supplier, it might just be worth it. Afterall, it would also be cheaper to return the leather in the event of a problem.

That said, Springfield Leather has been treating me right and I would recommend them if you do need to go overseas like me.

How much is it (approx) to ship a side from US to Oz? It cost me $155 to ship 4 light weight sides. 2 in 4-5 oz, and 2 in 3-4 oz.

[reddevil76]

That is why I never mail order certain items like leather, and shoes. What you need to do is find a shop that has a sales person that will work with you, that you can email a pic to or that will understand exactly what you are expecting to get. and who you can ask for each time you call. I have a Tandy down the road from me in Fabulous Las Vegas, so I can pick out what I may need,sorry that you do not have the same opportunity to do so yourself. I am actually fairly surprised that you don't have better access to leather with your location considering how many leather goods are made that way.

When I was heavy into the gun parts a number of years ago I found a company that had a salesman that hit it off with me. He would call with specials on military surplus items that they had, and he would give me the no BS answer when I asked about condition, It they were dented, or dinged he told me. I still bought alot from him because I knew exactly what I was going to get. After awhile he knew what I liked, and he would call if something came in that might interest me. Over the years we developed a good business relationship.

Don't give up, and that scrap leather has lots of uses. Try making some sandals, and use it for the soles. It could also be used for stacked handles, or utility items like ax sheaths, work cuffs, and other things that don't have to be pretty, just work.

Hi Big Gun, in Asia, there are alot of leather products made here, except Singapore. I just happen to be in the one Asian country where hand craft skills aren't particularly held in high regard. Our people at the top aims to be the education hub, aviation hub, animation hub, blah blah blah... but traditional skills like these... very very rare.

If you talk about professional leather workers, there is one new workshop opening this Thursday (tomorrow). Making it a total of 3 workshops, in a population of 6.5 million.

I would love to order leather from Asia, but so far I have not found one single company that does mail order for hobbyists. The leather companies I've found all only wants to do corporate business.

[lazybum]

Hi reddevil

Sorry to hear about the bad purchase. I share your frustration of doing leatherwork in Singapore. I just happened to be talking to my friend's father who paints as a hobby the other day. He was musing with me how everyone here is so focused on pursuing professions that the arts and the spiritual satisfaction that can be gained from practicing them are so often neglected.

Anyway ive ordered some leather from springfield before and they are generally true to their descriptions. Some holes, spots and blemishes here and there but largely usable for the top grade sides. Perhaps what you can try, if you haven't, is to ask (politely of course) whoever that is attending to you to send you hides that are generally clean, explaining to them that you absolutely have little to no use for imperfect leather.

I would also avoid buying the lower grade hides. Its already risky enough to order through mail, ordering the economy sides will likely compound the chance of getting bad hides!

Besides, since the shipping cost is so high, its probably more worth it to order something that has use for every ounce!

Ive just placed an order for some W&C leather. Will let you know how they fare when they arrive.

Edited March 2, 2011 by lazybum

[reddevil76]

Hi reddevil

Sorry to hear about the bad purchase. I share your frustration of doing leatherwork in Singapore. I just happened to be talking to my friend's father who paints as a hobby the other day. He was musing with me how everyone here is so focused on pursuing professions that the arts and the spiritual satisfaction that can be gained from practicing them are so often neglected.

Anyway ive ordered some leather from springfield before and they are generally true to their descriptions. Some holes, spots and blemishes here and there but largely usable for the top grade sides. Perhaps what you can try, if you haven't, is to ask (politely of course) whoever that is attending to you to send you hides that are generally clean, explaining to them that you absolutely have little to no use for imperfect leather.

I would also avoid buying the lower grade hides. Its already risky enough to order through mail, ordering the economy sides will likely compound the chance of getting bad hides!

Besides, since the shipping cost is so high, its probably more worth it to order something that has use for every ounce!

Ive just placed an order for some W&C leather. Will let you know how they fare when they arrive.

Hey Kuroba, I actually enquired regarding the top grade tooling sides from Springfield. Funnily enough, they are cheaper than the B grade Hermann Oak I bought from them. Well, I guess the price difference is US vs Imported. Anyway, Jill has offered to send samples with the next order. I can't make another order (another risk) just to have samples. So I offered to cover the postage for samples. Waiting for them now.

Is that what you got from them the last round?

I'd be keen to drop by to see the W&C leather (if you don't mind) once you received it. Is it the standard, utility or special?

[lazybum]

Hey Kuroba, I actually enquired regarding the top grade tooling sides from Springfield. Funnily enough, they are cheaper than the B grade Hermann Oak I bought from them. Well, I guess the price difference is US vs Imported. Anyway, Jill has offered to send samples with the next order. I can't make another order (another risk) just to have samples. So I offered to cover the postage for samples. Waiting for them now.

Is that what you got from them the last round?

I'd be keen to drop by to see the W&C leather (if you don't mind) once you received it. Is it the standard, utility or special?

Yeap I bought the "top grade tooling side" for 2-3oz and "double shoulder #2" for 5-6oz". I bought 12 sq ft of both.

About a third of the 2-3oz was spotty, but the rest was generally clean. The shoulders were pretty even throughout, pretty clean but somewhat "veiny". The "veiny" texture was usually not obvious at all though. The shoulders were a bit dry and hard to cut.

My guess is the Hermann Oak is probably better(?) in terms of tannage, but the imported top grade tooling side is cleaner. The grade only refers to the cleanliness of the leather after all, so the pricing probably makes sense.

I ordered the overstocked utility. $100 for 1 side W&C. Ill be glad to send you some pics when its here, but my place is a little messy (my mum looks after people's kids) so taking visitors will be a bit inconvenient. If you really want to see it I can probably bring it downstairs for you to take a look though.

[reddevil76]

Yeap I bought the "top grade tooling side" for 2-3oz and "double shoulder #2" for 5-6oz". I bought 12 sq ft of both.

About a third of the 2-3oz was spotty, but the rest was generally clean. The shoulders were pretty even throughout, pretty clean but somewhat "veiny". The "veiny" texture was usually not obvious at all though. The shoulders were a bit dry and hard to cut.

My guess is the Hermann Oak is probably better(?) in terms of tannage, but the imported top grade tooling side is cleaner. The grade only refers to the cleanliness of the leather after all, so the pricing probably makes sense.

I ordered the overstocked utility. $100 for 1 side W&C. Ill be glad to send you some pics when its here, but my place is a little messy (my mum looks after people's kids) so taking visitors will be a bit inconvenient. If you really want to see it I can probably bring it downstairs for you to take a look though.

Trust me, I know all about cramp conditions and such. My relatives in Malaysia says we Singaporeans are funny, we don't have our neighbours over unless on special occasions. But then again, they have never tried living in the "boxes" we do that we paid $800K for!

Pics are like looking at them over the internet. If you don't mind, I'd just take a peek from the corridor so you don't have to lug it downstairs. I'd be very afraid that you'd dirty it in the process and I'd feel guilty about that.

Are you interested to see the Hermann Oak?