Contact Cement Vs. Sewing

[JohnBarton]

Obviously I can test this for myself and I will do so but I thought I'd ask for your experiences as well. I see a few of my colleagues making cue cases and using glue instead of sewing. I have one of the brands in my shop and it's not as secure as I would like. I haven't ever seen an example of the other brand in person but by all accounts it holds up very well. I have used contact cement on two occasions to cover up one name with an overlay which had a sewn border. On both cases the final result was such that the overlay looked and felt as if it were sewn to the body. In my early testing I found that leather bonded with contact cement is very difficult to remove and damages the piece it's bonded to.

BUT

How does one know if this is a lasting solution or not?

The reason I ask is that there are certain things I would like to do where sewing is impractical or so labor intensive that I don't really want to do it. Are today's modern adhesives enough to bond leather in a manner that is dependable (not load bearing) and consistent?

I will do my experiments but I'd sure like to hear your opinions and recommendations.

Thanks in advance,

John

[rawhide1]

John

I was always told if it gets glued it gets sewed. And if it gets sewed it gets glued. While I think contact cement would hold fine for non load bearing or stress free areas I would hate to chance it. Especially on a high end product such as your cases. IMHO it cheapens the overall appearance of the product.

Anyway my .02 cents, Mike

[katsass]

Obviously I can test this for myself and I will do so but I thought I'd ask for your experiences as well. I see a few of my colleagues making cue cases and using glue instead of sewing. I have one of the brands in my shop and it's not as secure as I would like. I haven't ever seen an example of the other brand in person but by all accounts it holds up very well. I have used contact cement on two occasions to cover up one name with an overlay which had a sewn border. On both cases the final result was such that the overlay looked and felt as if it were sewn to the body. In my early testing I found that leather bonded with contact cement is very difficult to remove and damages the piece it's bonded to.

BUT

How does one know if this is a lasting solution or not?

The reason I ask is that there are certain things I would like to do where sewing is impractical or so labor intensive that I don't really want to do it. Are today's modern adhesives enough to bond leather in a manner that is dependable (not load bearing) and consistent?

I will do my experiments but I'd sure like to hear your opinions and recommendations.

Thanks in advance,

John

As 5rawhide says, if it's stitched it's glued and vicy versy. I learned to stitch from a WWI Cavalry soldier to stitch, and if it's worth gluing, it's worth stitchging. Mike .

c i

[JohnBarton]

I understand the sentiment and in general every place you see on my cases that is sewed is likely to also be riveted where you can't see it for extra safety. I am specifically talking about using modern adhesives and not the regular bag glue one uses to keep things in place before sewing. Another reason I ask is because I just subscribed to the videos on the Leather Craft Library website and George Hurst is doing a tutorial on inlays. His first example is a tooled section where the inside of the shape is beveled and then a python shaped glued to that on a belt. The way he did it seemed as if it would work just fine. I would consider a belt to be one of those leather items where everything should be stitched or otherwise tightly secured with rivets. I would not think of simply gluing a thin piece of leather in a recessed area on a high use item like a belt. But looking at how it was done I could see that the inlay would easily roll with the belt and the edges of the inlay piece would not normally be exposed since they are tamped into the beveled edge on the belt. So about the only concern I see is whether the glue would ever loosen up or not?

My experience using the rubber cement similar to Barges says that it should be pretty strong and weatherproof. I am not sure though.

When I did the two pieces I mentioned above I spent about an hour sanding the leather carefully and prepping it before laying down the glue. Then I followed the instructions faithfully to let the glue get to the right amount of tackiness and went ahead and secured the pieces. I then stacked books on the glued pieces and let it sit for 24 hours. The next day I was pretty satisfied with the results and so far the two customers haven't complained (both of them know it's glued so they might be being more careful).

We do make cases where the leather is glued to the body. So far they are all holding up after three years.

Here is one done with veg tan and tooled - the picture shows the back of the case and the seam is glued to the body.

Here is the front

So I am not totally unfamiliar with depending on glue. But usually with any leather to leather where there would normally be a seam I don't consider doing anything other than lacing, riveting or stitching. The endcaps on the above case are also laminated leather pieces though. I guess I am just looking to see what other people's experiences have been if they used just a glue solution for leather to leather bonds. The endcaps have been doing well so I guess that should give me some confidence.

I think I might do something for myself and use it for a few months and see how it holds up.

[srminimo]

Very interesting that I found this post, as I wanted to find out how this was done. I figured glue, but was afraid just glue would not be strong enough.

[Ferg]

The only time I ever use rubber cement is if the connection is temporary. Barge cement is my choice, I am sure there are others. All adhesives need to have time to acquire the optimum

adhesive strength, as you know. Many folks, myself included, get in a "rutt" to get something finished and hurry the process, not good. I glue and sew. When I done filigree years ago I glued all of the fine cuts of leather with Barge cement.

ferg

Very interesting that I found this post, as I wanted to find out how this was done. I figured glue, but was afraid just glue would not be strong enough.

[Spinner]

Obviously I can test this for myself and I will do so but I thought I'd ask for your experiences as well. I see a few of my colleagues making cue cases and using glue instead of sewing. I have one of the brands in my shop and it's not as secure as I would like. I haven't ever seen an example of the other brand in person but by all accounts it holds up very well. I have used contact cement on two occasions to cover up one name with an overlay which had a sewn border. On both cases the final result was such that the overlay looked and felt as if it were sewn to the body. In my early testing I found that leather bonded with contact cement is very difficult to remove and damages the piece it's bonded to.

BUT

How does one know if this is a lasting solution or not?

The reason I ask is that there are certain things I would like to do where sewing is impractical or so labor intensive that I don't really want to do it. Are today's modern adhesives enough to bond leather in a manner that is dependable (not load bearing) and consistent?

I will do my experiments but I'd sure like to hear your opinions and recommendations.

Thanks in advance,

John

Hey John,

I can confirm that when used according to the instructions, the contact cement like Barge's and the Tandy brand as well will stand up to the elements, time, heat, cold, weight bearing, etc. I make leather wrapped covers and side bags for motorcycles, the leather wrapped side covers have leather that is wet formed to the factory ABS cover and then the leather is removed and contact cement applied to both surfaces and then leather re-wrapped and smoothed on. I have 20 sets of these on bikes all over the US and half of those have been on the road 2+ years without a problem. I also make a side bag that replaces the rear foot peg. In making the prototype, I didn't want to waste time stitching something that was going to just be a mock-up so I contact cemented it. Well, it was 6 months before I got back to the project after the prototyping and the bag was on my bike the whole time. I put my house keys, wallet and mini-toolkit in that bag everytime I rode (was worried the first time or two about hoping I'd hear my stuff fall out...) but in that time, not one seam broke. The bag had no finish on it so it was exposed to 80+mph wind, rain, direct sunlight, dust, dirt, etc.

Long story short, I can confirm the contact cement works very well. Just make sure to do as they say and coat both surfaces, wait until tacky and then press firmly together for 2-5 minutes then let cure overnight for full effectiveness.

Hope this helps,

Chris

A couple of pictures of the bags I spoke of so you can see they are in no way sheltered, they're out there getting used:

Here's the prototype bag (mounts with a custom bracket that replaces the rear footpeg) - notice how close it sits to the exhaust pipes (area of high temps):