A Consew Cp206R Portable Or A Singer 111 Walking Foot

[CustomDoug]

For the purpose of making leather chaps, vest etc... which would you buy and why? - a new Consew portable walking foot machine (CP206R) or find an old Singer 111w***, 112, 212, etc walking foot machine. Keep in mind that I'm not necessarily needing a machine to be portable - they're just readily available at reasonable prices.

Edited August 23, 2011 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

That's like asking "Do I want a Vespa scooter or a Volkswagen Beetle?" I'd have to answer "neither." I tried a portable walking foot machine and it arrived with the main shaft jammed and it would not rotate long enough to form a stitch. I previously (late 1980's) had a Singer 111 and would not pay actual cash money for another one.

What I would recommend is a fairly recent model Consew 206RB-something, or a Chandler 406RB, or a Juki LU-563, or an LU-1508. I have a National 300N, which is made in Japan and sews to 7/16 inch, using system 190 needles. I bought it off my local Craigslist, then purchased a SewPro 500GR servo motor to replace the clutch motor. All of the aforementioned machines have very large bobbins and very strong take-up parts and can easily handle #138 thread, or even #207.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

That's like asking "Do I want a Vespa scooter or a Volkswagen Beetle?" I'd have to answer "neither." I tried a portable walking foot machine and it arrived with the main shaft jammed and it would not rotate long enough to form a stitch. I previously (late 1980's) had a Singer 111 and would not pay actual cash money for another one.

What I would recommend is a fairly recent model Consew 206RB-something, or a Chandler 406RB, or a Juki LU-563, or an LU-1508. I have a National 300N, which is made in Japan and sews to 7/16 inch, using system 190 needles. I bought it off my local Craigslist, then purchased a SewPro 500GR servo motor to replace the clutch motor. All of the aforementioned machines have very large bobbins and very strong take-up parts and can easily handle #138 thread, or even #207.

I've never heard anybody say a bad thing about a Singer 111W series machine. 1st time for everything I guess.

[CustomDoug]

That's like asking "Do I want a Vespa scooter or a Volkswagen Beetle?" I'd have to answer "neither."

So which is the vespa and which would be the Beetle? I thought the Singer 111W*** was a descent choice. Also why would the portable version of the Consew 206RB be a bad choice at this price point?

[Techsew Ron]

Singer 111 should be good for chaps, vests and leather garments. If you can get a good deal go for it, just make sure its in good sewing condition. You'll probably want to upgrade to a servo motor once you purchase it.

[Art]

I've never had a 111w that didn't perform as advertised. Good machine for chaps and vests and fabric and leather 3/8" or less. The motor on a used one will usually be high speed, get a servo or even a reduction servo. It takes feet that are cheap and readily available to sew darned near any configuration. I would forget getting the CraP 206 as it is not up to the job you want, it just isn't a leather machine and has a really weak motor for that function. Now an RB206 is a different story and is up to the level you need. Also while you are looking, the 153w101 is like a 111 with a cylinder arm, which for bags and the like can be quite handy.

Art

I previously (late 1980's) had a Singer 111 and would not pay actual cash money for another one.

[Wizcrafts]

Okay. I stuck my neck out and you guys enjoyed chopping it off.

Here then is my explanation for why I said what I did about Singer 111 sewing machines.

!: They have a standard size industrial bobbin, which doesn't sew very far with #138 or larger thread

2: They lack reverse levers, except for but one sub-class 156 model.

3: the stitch length change mechanism is hidden inside the body, requiring a combination of a button push and hand-wheel rotation to affect a change. It requires learned skill to make repeatable changes, none of which happen quickly.

Most modern walking foot machines have large bobbins. Most also have an easy to use reverse lever, for back tacking to lock stitches. I believe that most people sewing vests and chaps would prefer to press a lever down to back tack three stitches, into the same holes, than spin a large piece of leather 180 degrees to do that. Finally, I prefer to be able to turn a simple dial, with spring detentes, to make predictable and instant stitch length changes.

I express my own opinions, which are like assholes: everybody's got one of them also.

[CustomDoug]

Okay. I stuck my neck out and you guys enjoyed chopping it off.

Here then is my explanation for why I said what I did about Singer 111 sewing machines.

I express my own opinions, which are like assholes: everybody's got one of them also.

I sometimes feel I have to hold back on this forum when questioning people here about details (or harping on them, lol), so as not to offend. Wiz, I hope you don't really mind your knowledge and authority being questioned by us new guys (myself). You're always a HUGE help, it's just that it's only smart to weigh all the info. If I've misread your meaning, I appologize.

[Wizcrafts]

I sometimes feel I have to hold back on this forum when questioning people here about details (or harping on them, lol), so as not to offend. Wiz, I hope you don't really mind your knowledge and authority being questioned by us new guys (myself). You're always a HUGE help, it's just that it's only smart to weigh all the info. If I've misread your meaning, I appologize.

Doug;

I wasn't referring to you with my comment about my neck being chopped off.

The points that I made in my previous explanation were meant for you. This will allow you to compare features of very old versus newer machinery. If you choose the best machine, for reasonable money, it will serve you better than a super price deal on an ancient machine that lacks most of the features considered standard nowadays.

The portable walking foot machine is not meant for sewing leather. The feet have teeth on them. The body clearance is 7" on most of those machines, although some models have up to 9 inches inside the body. By contrast, my modern walking foot machine has 10.5" clearance, from the needle to the bottom of the body. It was capable of sewing 3/8" of leather until I modified it. Now, it sews just under 1/2 inch. The large M style bobbins hold about 50% more thread than a Singer 111 bobbin. The stitch length can be varied while you are sewing and there are click detentes to lock the knob into position. The reverse lever is large and very easy to press down. There is no reason to spin the work around to back tack. The only other option on a non-reversing machine is to leave long threads at the end and tie them together, on the bottom. If you are in production, that is not a reasonable option, when machines with reverse are so plentiful.

Here is a photo of my walking foot machine. Note the round stitch length knob and the huge reverse lever below it.

[amuckart]

I haven't even gotten into building much yet and I'm already getting annoyed with the machines I have that lack reverse (except for my #6, which you can have when you pry it out of my cold, dead, hands :D )

Wiz: Is that machine a descendent of the Singer 111, and therefore similar to the Seiko STH-8 / Consew 206R, or a completely different class of machine?

(I love your bobbin rack, btw)

Cheers.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Doug;

I wasn't referring to you with my comment about my neck being chopped off.

Wiz,

I appreacite all of your posts, but kindly keep in mind that when you make 'killer statements' about a wildy popular machine that set the standard for nearly every modern walking foot today, well, you can exepct some back lash.

Saying that you would not pay any money for a machine that someone here is likely to have spent decades using, making a living with, is likely to rub some folks the wrong way. We still have quite a few people who woudn't want any other machine, price no object. And, as for the bobbin size, if peole change colors frequently, they may not need a large bobbin. As for a stitch length regulator, yeah, I got it, the dial is a ton easier, but fact is dozens of model of machines from Singer, Seiko, Consew, Juki, and other popular brands use this bed push button stitch length reg.

Just trying to give another point of view, and no offence take by me, and I fully understand your post. No big deal.

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz: Is that machine a descendent of the Singer 111, and therefore similar to the Seiko STH-8 / Consew 206R, or a completely different class of machine?

(I love your bobbin rack, btw)

Cheers.

It is a descendent of a Consew 206 Japanese walking foot design, using a left side mounted M style large bobbin. The Singer 111 is so ancient now, but was the father of walking foot machines as we know them. They had top loading small bobbins. The Juki LU-562 was an improvement on the Singer 111, with reverse. The LU-563 added the Juki large bobbins, which are wider than the M bobbins my machine uses.

My bobbin rack is a piece of cutting board, about 5/16" thick, with holes drilled and long construction nails pressed up from the bottom. I cut it away on the thread stand edge, so it can wrap around the right rear of the table. This is better than having loaded bobbins laying around or in a drawer.