My Experience With A Factory-Direct Chinese 441 Clone

[amuckart]

After my thread inquiring about the quality of drop-shipped machines from China I did a lot of asking around and checked the prices of a whole lot of options, including buying from Steve at Cobra or Bob at Toledo Industrial. I priced out buying a Highlead head from a local mechanic/importer (an old school chap who wears a tie and waistcoat in the workshop). I looked at a Seiko CH-8 that I talked to Dan at Campbell-Randall about feet for, and I costed out buying just a head and building a stand v.s. buying both. I even thought about just saving up for a Campbell high lift, but that fell into the Wife Acceptance category of "you can buy it, but you'll be sleeping in the garage with it". One day though...

While I was working through these options people on this board, and all the dealers I pestered with questions were incredibly helpful so this is a public thank you to you Art, Wiz, Bob, Steve, Dan, Donna, and everyone who took the time to help educate me.

A while ago I met someone in NZ who'd bought a Hightex (the brand Cowboy machines are badged with outside the US). Their initial impression of the machine was, to put it politely, that it showed no evidence of quality control. They also had trouble getting support from the seller, who wasn't based in NZ. That put me off the brand, but since then I found an NZ-based Cowboy reseller, and the owners of that machine stripped, cleaned, rebuilt and adjusted it and said it works well now.

After covering and costing out a lot of options, I bit the bullet and ordered a 441-AE knowing it was going to come to me straight from the factory in China and need at least a jolly good tune up. I wasn't in for the same unbox-and-go experience someone buying a Cowboy from Bob would get but cost, and buying from an NZ-based reseller (which meant as a private individual I get the benefits of New Zealand's good consumer protection laws if it was a total lemon) were the deciding factors. The reseller I dealt with here is a manufacturer of skydiving equipment who uses a lot of Hightex machines. He was responsive and helpful, and barring the shipping being quite a bit over what he quoted, I found the whole process good. In the end the shipping was a small fraction of the cost and not a major issue.

A hair under NZ$3000, tax and shipping included, got me the machine, stand, motor & speed reducer, all the optional feet and needle plates, sewing guide, and even a spare set of blanket feet to modify into an inline foot set. The only bit I didn't get was the table attachment. The next best option I priced out was over half again as expensive, and for that money I was prepared to sink the time into getting the machine working and paying for professional help if required.

Delivery and Unboxing

A couple of weeks ago I heard from the seller that the machine was in the country so I paid the shipping and taxes and started waiting for it to show up. Unfortunately the freight forwarders with the machine were muppets, but after ten days of "It'll be there before 4pm tomorrow, honest" it finally arrived earlier this week.

That's when I hit the second snag, rather than reading the labels on the boxes and the instructions with the shipment, the freighters just put three random boxes on a pallet and sent them to me. I got my 441 head fine, but found two clutch motors and a Sailmaster zigzag machine in the boxes I was expecting the stand in. Annoying, but no fault of Hightex or the chap I bought the machine from.

The machines arrived on a pallet in cardboard boxes. The boxes had taken a bit of rough handling but the internal polystyrene liners were undamaged. In the main box was the head, manual and parts, and a smaller box with the wheel and thread stand. Most bits were in plastic bags.

The machine was greased for shipping and wrapped in plastic. They could have done a better job greasing and wrapping the hand wheel, it had some rust on it when I unboxed it.

After checking everything looked to be there I stripped all the minor parts off, removed the shuttle race, bobbin winder and covers, and took it all out the back with a couple of cans of brake cleaner and some good synthetic oil (I use CRC Syntex on everything from featherweights to my Pearson, it's great stuff)

(sorry about the recycling in the background)

Before going after the bobbin winder with brake cleaner I took the rubber tyre off, but other than that I just saturated the machine and flushed everything thoroughly with the cleaner. It did the trick, the runoff was yellow-brown and had bits in. Two cans was just about enough but three would have been better. After that I carefully but thoroughly oiled the whole thing with Syntex, put the hand wheel on and it all turned over perfectly smoothly with no clunking or binding.

Next, reassembly tuning and threading for the first time.

[dirtclod]

At least you have something to bargin with ( the extra machine and motor ) to get your stand if they give you any trouble.

[MADMAX22]

Great writeup about your experience so far. I imagine it will be great overall if you get it up and running good. I got mine from Neil at Neils saddlery. Thing runs like a champ now that I have learned how to properly use it (pretty much my first sewing machine besides a POS home unit for sewing my uniforms). They are great machines IMHO.

[RWB]

I guess I am slightly confused...... Why did you decide to get that machine straight from China? On the Cobra website that same machine is priced out at $2500. That come with everything, stand, head, motor, and it is pre-tuned with all the bugs worked out. Not to mention that you get all the service that Cobra offers. I'm not trying to be critical, just curious. Is shipping from the US to NZ more than $500?

I don't own a Cobra so this isn't a sales pitch for them, again I'm just curious.

Ross Brunk

[amuckart]

Hi Ross,

I guess I am slightly confused...... Why did you decide to get that machine straight from China? On the Cobra website that same machine is priced out at $2500. That come with everything, stand, head, motor, and it is pre-tuned with all the bugs worked out. Not to mention that you get all the service that Cobra offers. I'm not trying to be critical, just curious. Is shipping from the US to NZ more than $500?

Don't forget my local currency is worth less than the USD, and I'm having to pay taxes on arrival. A Cobra machine is US$2495 + US$650 shipping + around US$400 for the additional feet and plates I got in addition to the stock ones. That's over US$3500 before I've even paid the 15% tax and local shipping costs. After tax and exchange rates that adds up to over NZ$4800. The machine I bought was just under NZ$3000, at my door with all the tax and shipping paid.

That NZ$1800 buys lot of my time to set up the machine and tune it. Even if I had to buy, say, a new hook and pay for a local professional to help me if I got really stuck, I'm still coming out ahead. I'm reasonably handy with machines so provided the machine is basically sound and absent any really serious manufacturing defects I figured I would be able to get it going even if that meant taking it all apart and reassembling it clean as my friends had to do with theirs.

Yes, this was a minor gamble, given the variable nature of ex-factory QA, but I knew that in the event of serious defects (which I haven't found) I could call on the warranty through the NZ-based vendor and get them fixed. That was a not-insignificant factor in the decision.

If I'd been buying a machine for full-time professional use I'd have spent the extra money and bought a Highlead from the local importer/mechanic here and gotten a higher-quality machine fully set up and with local support, but that option was getting on for twice what I ended up paying and I'm a hobbyist so that wasn't justifiable.

[Techsew Ron]

If anything this shows the amount of work and effort that myself, Steve, Bob and other dealers put into machines before shipping them to a customer.

Dealing with overseas agents, customs, import taxes and fees, set up, tuning, adjustment, modifications, testing, assembly, shipping preparation etc involves countless hours of work!

Thanks for posting.

Ron

[amuckart]

If anything this shows the amount of work and effort that myself, Steve, Bob and other dealers put into machines before shipping them to a customer.

Dealing with overseas agents, customs, import taxes and fees, set up, tuning, adjustment, modifications, testing, assembly, shipping preparation etc involves countless hours of work!

Absolutely. If getting this machine up and sewing had been at all time sensitive, I'd be stuffed since I still don't have the stand and the vendor told me yesterday that the factory shipped the wrong motor with it - sending a clutch motor instead of the servo I ordered. That's not a huge problem for me, because I have a servo I can pull off an under-used machine here, but if I didn't have that it would be a major annoyance.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Very interesting. A lot of sewing dealers would like to bury their heads in the sand, and pretend that customers do not have options like this available to them. I've known quite a few folks who bring in machines direct, with mixed results. Some were less than thrilled, to say the least, and a few were happy with their purchase. I guess a lot has to go into what your level of expectations are and how handy you are with setting up sewing machines, more or less.

The one thing I can say for sure is this; when you buy a machine from China, factory direct, that machine is yours; good, bad, or ugly. Whatever problems the machine has are now YOUR problems, even if parts are missing, don't fit, don't work. And that's before you get into finishing off the machine and setting it up. And don't think that because you read about a positive experience on a message board, that your going to have the same positive experience as well; some factories have very little stability, and can have equipment arrive in all kinds of various conditions, from day to day, month to month, you get the idea.

I mean, they forgot sewing stand parts and sent a sewing machine additional instead? What the heck is that all about, in this case?

I DO want to back up a moment, and say that we sent some new Seiko equipment from the US into New Zealand last year, and I TOTALLY understand what amuckart is up against. In his case, with shipping, the exchange rate, and his sounding willing to do some work, he got a good machine at a good price.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Gregg From Keystone Sewing

[Art]

Hi Gregg,

That is why I harp on knowing just which factory a machine came out of. This IS of paramount importance as the QC and even sometimes manufacturing can run from 0-10 on a scale of 2-8. Enough of that.

Even if the machine is from a lesser factory, a good sewing machine mechanic can usually put things right, especially on clones as parts are readily available. This is another reason to buy from an established dealer, they have real mechanics. Real mechanics are folks that work on machines all day, everyday. I am not a real sewing machine mechanic, and I don't think Wiz or Al can fly in that company either, we may be good, but not Tony (Cobra), Bob (Toledo), or Bobby (Toledo) good; I take care of laptop computers for a living, and Wiz does a little of everything, but is a musician. Your machine needs to come to you through the hands of a professional sewing machine mechanic, preferably the industrial variety. There isn't any way one of the brick and mortar guys is going to send you a machine in a box that hasn't been opened and gone through, and with someone like Tony or Bobby going through it, it will run well from the start.

Now for all you other 1/2 mechanics like me, who get some masochistic pleasure out of figuring what's up with a used or abused machine, the Internet may be for you.

Art

Very interesting. A lot of sewing dealers would like to bury their heads in the sand, and pretend that customers do not have options like this available to them. I've known quite a few folks who bring in machines direct, with mixed results. Some were less than thrilled, to say the least, and a few were happy with their purchase. I guess a lot has to go into what your level of expectations are and how handy you are with setting up sewing machines, more or less.

The one thing I can say for sure is this; when you buy a machine from China, factory direct, that machine is yours; good, bad, or ugly. Whatever problems the machine has are now YOUR problems, even if parts are missing, don't fit, don't work. And that's before you get into finishing off the machine and setting it up. And don't think that because you read about a positive experience on a message board, that your going to have the same positive experience as well; some factories have very little stability, and can have equipment arrive in all kinds of various conditions, from day to day, month to month, you get the idea.

I mean, they forgot sewing stand parts and sent a sewing machine additional instead? What the heck is that all about, in this case?

A DO want to back up a moment, and say that we sent some equipment from the US into New Zealand last year, and I TOTALLY understand what amuckart is up against. In his case, with shipping, the exchange rate, and his sounding willing to do some work, he got a good machine at a good price.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Art,

TSC-441 copies are a bit safer, you would think. You can find genuine and generic replacement parts, and usually the frame casting is going to be at least decent from one of the better factories. I've seen some more exotic stuff like heavy zig zag machines come direct that, IMO, were a complete disaster, and needed extensive work to function properly. And this is coming from a brand name everybody here knows very well.