Improve Look Of Back Side Of Stitching

[Kcinnick]

I am very happy with the look of the top stitch of my Cowboy 4500, I have gotten very good results with tips I have read on the board and from PM's conversations with more experienced members. I was not happy with how the back of my stitching looked on my belts so I remembered there was this huge thick 3 pieces of leather sewn with the machine included with my machine, I looked at the back of the stitch, while it didn't look as good as the front it looked much better than the back of my stitches. I am using 6 and 8 stitches per inch with a diamond needle. Any suggestions or settings would be greatly appreciated.

[Kevin]

Try LR needles. I do not understand the idea of diamond needles, it looks just like a round pointed needle's stitch to me (ugly), so what's the difference?

Good luck,

Kevin

[Kcinnick]

I ordered a pack of LR needles, I have "D" "S" and 7X3 sharp points. I was thinking it might have something to do with the bobbin tension, but I don't want to mess with any settings without suggestions. It basically pulls the stitch completely into the leather creating a like a cut in the leather. Tip stitch looks perfect, like straight little soldiers (Or ugly)

I tried the 7X3 sharp points, but I had all kinds of problems with them.

Nick

[Kcinnick]

Well, I played with settings since my last post. Mainly bottom thread tension and presser foot pressure. I read to loosen the presser foot pressure until the leather begins to lift while stitching, so I went up and up, really it was 10 turns and pop out comes the assembly, so I put that back to how bob set it. I then played with the bottom bobbin pressure. I loosened it a 1/2 turn at a time until I got a tangled mess. I then proceeded to turn it a 1/2 turn at a time back until I got back to where Bob set it....

So my machine is back like Bob set it up, sews a perfect top stitch every time, but the bottom stitch doesn't look so nice.

I am using 277 on top and bottom. Does using 207 on bottom give a better looking back stitch or do people do that to get more thread on the bobbin?

Is there anywhere I can see the back stitch of juki 441 clones, I have not been able to find a picture of the back side of a Cobra, Cowboy, Artisan, Ferdco stitch anywhere.

[Kcinnick]

Well I did what I should have done in the first place, I called Bob.

Everything is normal, it is how the stitch is suppose to look, and I am just too critical of myself.

Go Cowboy, but not Cowboys.

Who dat.

I feel like I am paranoid replying to myself, but new info is new info.

[Andrew Chee]

1323966402[/url]' post='224466']

Well I did what I should have done in the first place, I called Bob.

Everything is normal, it is how the stitch is suppose to look, and I am just too critical of myself.

Go Cowboy, but not Cowboys.

Who dat.

I feel like I am paranoid replying to myself, but new info is new info.

Can you post some pics of the top side and back side of your stitches? I'm curious as to what to expect. I have an artisan toro 3000 and the backside is not as nice as the too side either. The stitches look more pulled in to the leather. They're very regular but not pretty. I figure it's just cause of the way the needle cuts through the leather but I'm just curious what you're getting.

Andrew

[Kcinnick]

Can you post some pics of the top side and back side of your stitches? I'm curious as to what to expect. I have an artisan toro 3000 and the backside is not as nice as the too side either. The stitches look more pulled in to the leather. They're very regular but not pretty. I figure it's just cause of the way the needle cuts through the leather but I'm just curious what you're getting.

Andrew

How did you know I was up at 1:30 in the morning PMing hidepounder about issues getting black rubbing off my edges!

My wife is working on a photo setup to take some product photos tomorrow so I will throw one up if she gets the pictures looking good. From talking to Bob at Toledo it is normal for the bottom thread to pull into the leather and it is what I should expect. The longer stitches won't pull into the leather so far but since I am using 6 and 8 stitches per inch for my belts to get a nice tight front stitch the back stitch is going to pull into the leather. It is mostly uniform, has a little "pucker" look to it. I smooth the back out with a rounded polished piece of wood and call it a day now, the fronts look amazing. Basically you need to upgrade to a needle and awl machine to get pretty stitches on both sides. The back stitches will start to look better if I move out to 3-4 stitches per inch, but that is not the look I am going for.

Mainly, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong.

[bruce johnson]

You can run an overstitcher in the appropriate size over those back stitches and improve the look also.

[particle]

You might try, as an alternative to rubbing the back with a polished piece of wood, wetting the back with a sponge and then tapping the stitch line with a smooth-faced hammer. This will not only remove the pucker, but also close up the stitch holes. It will still never look as good as the front, but it will look much better. Here is a photo showing the front and back of one of mine sewn on the Boss where I hammered the backside of the stitches.

For comparison, here is a holster I made a long time ago that I simply smoothed with my bone folder. You can still see the puckering.

[Andrew Chee]

1324036738[/url]' post='224585']

You can run an overstitcher in the appropriate size over those back stitches and improve the look also.

Hi Bruce,how does this work? I thought overstitchers were for spacing and marking stitches for hand stitching?

Andrew

[bruce johnson]

Andrew,

According a few of the old guys, pricking wheels were the tool designed for marking out stitch spacing. They make a more distinctive mark to be felt than an overstitcher does. The oversticher came along after the stitching to even out any slightly off stitches and to help "set" the stitches. That meant a person needed to have a set of both. Some enterprising soul decided that you could mark out the spacing withan overstitcher and not need a pricking wheel. Most of my pricking wheels go to other countries where a lot of handstitching is still done. Some say they use both, but seems like most use pricking wheels for layout. Back in the day CS OSborne made overstitchers with narrow wheels and wide wheels. The wider wheel ones do a nice job on backside stitches because they will lay the puckering down a little more and set bigger thread. The narrower ones will open that thread line on the back a little more if the thread pulls in, which sounds like what Nick is dealing with.

[Kcinnick]

Andrew,

According a few of the old guys, pricking wheels were the tool designed for marking out stitch spacing. They make a more distinctive mark to be felt than an overstitcher does. The oversticher came along after the stitching to even out any slightly off stitches and to help "set" the stitches. That meant a person needed to have a set of both. Some enterprising soul decided that you could mark out the spacing withan overstitcher and not need a pricking wheel. Most of my pricking wheels go to other countries where a lot of handstitching is still done. Some say they use both, but seems like most use pricking wheels for layout. Back in the day CS OSborne made overstitchers with narrow wheels and wide wheels. The wider wheel ones do a nice job on backside stitches because they will lay the puckering down a little more and set bigger thread. The narrower ones will open that thread line on the back a little more if the thread pulls in, which sounds like what Nick is dealing with.

Yes, The thread is cutting a line going with the tight stitch line, but I am willing to sacrifice the back to get the nice front stitch on belts. When I sew holsters I don't use a stitch near as tight and can get a much better looking back side stitch. I thought I should be adjusting the bottom bobbin tension to compensate, but I Bob told me that was the price of the tight stitch on this kind of machine.

[bruce johnson]

Here an example of what I am talking about with using an overstitcher to clena up the bottom stitch. This is a billet strap for a brief case. One scan shows the top stitches. The other scan shows the bottom stitchlines with one side overstitched and the other as it came out of the machine.

[jrny4wrd]

On 12/16/2011 at 11:23 AM, bruce johnson said:

Andrew,

According a few of the old guys, pricking wheels were the tool designed for marking out stitch spacing. They make a more distinctive mark to be felt than an overstitcher does. The oversticher came along after the stitching to even out any slightly off stitches and to help "set" the stitches. That meant a person needed to have a set of both. Some enterprising soul decided that you could mark out the spacing withan overstitcher and not need a pricking wheel. Most of my pricking wheels go to other countries where a lot of handstitching is still done. Some say they use both, but seems like most use pricking wheels for layout. Back in the day CS OSborne made overstitchers with narrow wheels and wide wheels. The wider wheel ones do a nice job on backside stitches because they will lay the puckering down a little more and set bigger thread. The narrower ones will open that thread line on the back a little more if the thread pulls in, which sounds like what Nick is dealing with.

Are you talking about using a wheel for machines? 

[bruce johnson]

2 hours ago, jrny4wrd said:

Are you talking about using a wheel for machines? 

No, I am talking about using an overstitch wheel on the bottom side of the stitching after machine sewing. This will dress the stitches and make them look more like the top stitches. 

[RockyAussie]

On 12/19/2011 at 8:05 AM, bruce johnson said:

Here an example of what I am talking about with using an overstitcher to clena up the bottom stitch. This is a billet strap for a brief case. One scan shows the top stitches. The other scan shows the bottom stitchlines with one side overstitched and the other as it came out of the machine.

Thanks for sharing that @bruce johnson I have had one of these for like 30 years and had not realised that potential. Only does a bit over 1/8" but with a bit of luck I will be able to get one with a bit wider spacing. Now I will have to look to set my stitch length to near perfectly match the overstitch wheel but for some jobs it should be well worth the effort.

[Constabulary]

overstitcher.... you learn something new everyday. That really is interesting. Will check them out... Thanks a lot for that hint.

[jrny4wrd]

16 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

No, I am talking about using an overstitch wheel on the bottom side of the stitching after machine sewing. This will dress the stitches and make them look more like the top stitches. 

Thanks, that’s what I meant. Going to have to try it. Hopefully it wont cut the thread at all, my wheel looks a bit sharp.