Groon Smell

[WinterBear]

Unless you are made of wood or veg tanned leather... You wouldn't change color. Vinegaroon turns things black by a chemical reaction between the 'groon and the tannins in the leather or wood... or tea as Chuck mentioned.

Well I must be doing something wrong then, it certainly turned me funny colors where I got it on my bare skin.

[Sylvia]

Well I must be doing something wrong then, it certainly turned me funny colors where I got it on my bare skin.

Dang... you must be drinking way too much coffee or tea then. (bah duh dump!)

I've not noticed any skin tinting with mine. Go figure.

[Sylvia]

Really?!

I blame this squarely on you, Chuck; you haven't been posting nearly enough pics on here.

BTW, Sylvia, I'm glad to hear Chuck does make holsters, otherwise my purchase of his "Frontier Holsters with Chuck Burrows" DVD would have been a waste of my money.

Whoa! Burned by a Texan. Well, at least my instincts aren't failing me.

I pay no attention to "famous people" I figure they all put their britches on about the same as I do... and they all "sit to sh**" When I can find one that poll vaults into his britches from 100 paces away.... then I'll be impressed. :D Otherwise, they are just folks to me.

[chiefjason]

Chuck

I have a question: I assume from your posts that you are a holster maker. I don't as a rule make wet-formed items and I tend to tool first then 'groon afterwards. Have you tried tooling previously 'grooned leather, perhaps after the baking soda bath and rinse? I am wondering if that would be a better way for me to deal with the things that need to be vinegarooned.

???

Syl

Take this with a large grain of salt since I have not been working with leather long at all. I have done a total of 4 all leather holsters. But 30 seconds into trying to mold one that had been grooned a few days before I knew I was in trouble. It came out poorly molded. I was told that it's possible to groon, burnish, and mold all while it's still wet. I can say that it does make the burnishing easier. I have not tried molding that way yet. My last holster I molded first then grooned. It was much better than the one I grooned first. And it did not seem to effect the molding when it got wet. I think the main problem with grooning, drying, then working the leather is that the groon seems to nearly waterproof the leather on the working side. The water beads off instead of soaking in.

[Sylvia]

Excellent observation, Jason. Thank you.

[TexasJack]

Whoa! Burned by a Texan. Well, at least my instincts aren't failing me.

I pay no attention to "famous people" I figure they all put their britches on about the same as I do... and they all "sit to sh**" When I can find one that poll vaults into his britches from 100 paces away.... then I'll be impressed. :D Otherwise, they are just folks to me.

If anyone has patience and a good sense of humor, it's Chuck. I'm sure he got a laugh out of that. Anyone who could take the time to give me help and not give me up as hopeless has to have a good sense of humor.

[chiefjason]

Since we are talking groon here and it's getting some traffic, I'm going to sidetrack things a bit. Does anyone else notice a difference in how the groon takes in straight leather vs deglazed? Mine seems to work much, and I mean MUCH better if I don't deglaze. Any other experience?

Now, just to get back on track a bit. My first batch I rushed, and it smelled a lot. My second batch I started brewing as soon as I started using the first. It set much longer. Less smell. I tossed the first batch when the second was ready. Some smell, just not as strong. And the more I use it and leave the lid off while I work, the less residual smell I notice. Either I am getting used to it, or it's gassing off. I have another batch going now too. Since it is hot I set it outside to get more sun. We'll see how this goes. It will likely set longer than either of the first.

BTW, I did a piece the other day. Just one piece of leather and I wanted to leave the back as natural as possible. I grooned the front and edges and everything looked good. As soon as I did the baking soda and rinse it seemed to wick the groon through to the back in spots. No big deal really as I expected some bleeding. Just interesting to see it wick completely through 8-9 ox tooling leather in places.

[TomG]

I made up a couple of batches back in the fall. I didn't like the smell either. I was told that if you have dissolved as much metal as the vinegar will eat, there should not be any vinegar smell left.

The last batch didn't have as much of the vinegar smell as the first, but it does have that musty, rusted metal odor, with a slight vinegar undercurrent.

A couple of issues I had during the learning process. Now this may have just been me.

Too much soda in the wash will take all the oils out of the leather, leaving it brittle and stiff.

If you rinse it under plain running water and rub it, you can feel the oils in the leather coming to the surface.. You can actually wash them all out if you're not careful. So, rinse lightly.

The smell can take a week+ to go away.

Best results I had:

Dip the item for a minute or so, then take it out. Don't over do it. Often, it come out grey but within minutes in the air, turns jet black. Different leathers came out jet black right away.

Rinse lightly and wipe down lightly.

Immediately put a LIGHT coat of pure Neatsfoot oil on the flesh side.

Let it dry thoroughly.

Sometime, I will put another LIGHT coat of NFO on the flesh side once dry and let it set overnight. Too much oil and any SuperSheen or Resolene flakes off in a short time.

All of this being said, I love the depth and intensity of the black that I get.. But.... I usually don't have the time to wait for the smell to go away. If I do, then I use it.

I used to use the USMC Black spirit dye for everything. Got tired of burnishing the excess dyestuffs off. Now, for the fast turnaround jobs, I use the oil-based black. It's as close to the Vinegaroon as I've found.

Tom