How much to charge...,

[TwinOaks]

Hi to all,

I"ve been presented with an opportunity to do some custom carvings for some people, and wondered how much $$ is considered appropriate. The work will be done on purses, jacket panels, and some may be as large as a double bend. Also, I've made a few 5x8 pieces that are frameable. I've had some input from several people locally, but none of them are in any type of leather production. So, as asked: How much is this type of work worth? The inlcuded pic is suitable for 8.5 x 11 inches, framed.

[Regis]

Difficult question because you are asking the price of artwork because you are not making the final item. Plus we haven't seen/felt it. Your horse looks very good but, will these each be custom designs or same images over and over with little change. I've shown in some galleries (jewelry) and artwork pricing depends on quality AND reputation of maker. Artwork simply brings what someone is willing to pay. A lot will depend on complexity and how much you need to make per hour. At minimum, decide and hourly cost plus leather and be sure to allow for loss. Then see if they are willing to pay.

One caution though, don't use their leather, use your own. Reason is "when" (not if) you mess one up, you can replace it at your leather cost and not their's(which may include other costs like cutting). And, you need paid when you deliver not when they sell the finished item.

my 2c

[whinewine]

Twin Oaks: I know what you mean, & I don't wish to be a naysayer, but...

What I have often found is a snobbish, or an uninformed attitude of... 'Oh- that's not really art- it's just "leather"' or, 'that's not really art- it's just "photography"' (or "welding" or "quilling" or "...whatever_____{fill in the blanks}______...").

Most people won't pay for quality because:

1) they don't believe it's art

2) they aren't cognizant of the amount of time we put into our work

3) most of the Art Community doesn't recognize leather as a viable artistic medium

4) people truly believe they can get exactly the same thing at walmart for $9.99

But, by God, they'll spend $29.95 for a velvet elvis ('well, it's a real paintin', ain't it?), stick it on their walls & proclaim their ignorance to the world.

Best of luck. Regis also makes good points & good sense.

[Spider]

Well, I have had the same situation with my pieces. I am currently making some skulls out of leather with sort-of a Day of the Dead theme and I was wondering how much to charge. I am just gonna figure $15 per because the piece of leather I use is less than 20 bucks. It takes me about 1 hour to do each. The dye is not alot for each of them. Most of it is my labor...like everything else. I will post some of them as their own topic in a bit.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Spider

[Michael Sheldon]

My shop calculations:

Materials cost x 2

plus

Standard labor charge $35/hour

plus

Artistic Labor charge $50/hour

Standard labor charge=assembly, stitching, stamping, dying, etc

Artistic labor charge= fancy carving, painting, etc

Logic:

First, I always double materials costs. There's waste/loss, cost of shipping/gas to get them, then just the cost of having the stuff hanging around until you need it. Trust me, this will *just* cover your actual costs.

As far as the labor charge, some might think it high, better craftsman might think it low. The trick is to honestly asses what your time is worth. Keeping in mind that this must cover taxes etc. Also keeping in mind that it's rare to be able to bill 8 hours of labor in an 8 hour day averaged over time. Don't think of it as like you were being paid by an employer, your employer charges/accounts for a lot more than what they actually give you. The labor charges are also where you make back the cost of equipment and facilities.

The hard part is often estimating the time needed for a job ahead of time. This comes with experience.

[TwinOaks]

I forgot to mention this in the original post, but here goes- my target clientele won't really be stretching to afford anything. The money is there, and this will more or less be my break into this type of business. That said, I'm looking for a fair pricing guide. Michael Sheldon's $35/hr seems pretty fair to me, and seems to jive with other professional labor costs. This will hopefully get me introductions to folks who want more of this type work. The pieces will not be the same- I'm shooting for custom carvings- portrait style Being fairly new to leather, I may run into requests for work that I'm simply unprepared for, and if that's the case, I'll certainly post it here.

The pictured piece will most likely end up as a jacket panel. I've got a source for stitching this to a jacket, and simply need to put a good finish on it ....Neat-lac? Resolene?

[freak]

Also you gotta keep in mind what if they do want 100 more. Are you willing to do 100 more at that cost. I say always go high. No one is going to fight you over a price being lowered but, try to raise your price and see what happens.

I've charged prices that people thought i was crazy to charge. If they don't like it then i tell'em thanks and walk away. 9 out of 10 times i'm stopped and asked how long does it take to make. Then they start to understand the price. Remember they don't work for free and neither do you ! Then again i might be slow also. LOL !!

[Tina]

I agree with Freak & Michael Sheldon Big Time!

The only people that can raise the staus of handcraft is the handcrafters:-) We need many times colletivily to have the guts to value our time, work and knollage and get paid properly.

For some reason the many people has the idea that..."Handcraft, you do get something for nothing" and it seams to be universal.

Whishig you all the best of luck TwinOaks :-)

Edited January 20, 2008 by Tina

[Billy P]

Hey everyone, first let me say that I am probably the last one to give advice on pricing. However I have changed my way of doing that in the last year. Our own Bruce Johnson says that he likes to get at least per hour what the UPS driver gets for delivering what he orders, LOL, wouldn't we all. I don't sell anything at all, but If someone wants me to make something for them I do suggest a certain donation to replace my leather and to pay for other materials, plus by a new tool when it comes out. I can't do leatherwork and charge for it because I'm disabled and on SS Disability. The Gov. won't even let me volunteer to feed the dogs at the local Pet Facility, LOL, disabled folks, not dead yet. Lately I have hardly been doing anything at all Diabetes, tearing me up, big time. However I got to where I'm worth at least what the people that change tires at Wal-Mart is worth per hour. If the Dentist around here can charge $75 on up to spend 20min. pulling a tooth then I am for sure worth more that the $1 or 2 an hour they want to pay someone like up to make them nice belts, wallets, purses, etc. After reading some of the post by Bruce, David G, Frank Z., and a bunch of other knowledgeable Professional and Semi-Professional leather crafters I changed the way I charge for my work. I want to be fair to them, but I also want to be fair to me and my wife too. When I'm working on there stuff 1) taking time from my family, 2)using up leather and other material, 3)cost of the space and power for lights, water, etc., all have to be paid for from somwhere. I've got a shop building out back, not big, but enough for my use, however it was running my power bill up $75 to $100 a month and I wasn't getting it back either. Paying for it out of my little SS check. Now if they ask I'll tell them how much donation and if they want it fine a deposit and we'll get-er-done if not get the hell on out of here, cause I am going to watch T.V. with my wife for awhile. Since I've had to retire, my job where I used to work was cut out, but a comparable job there would be paying me about $17 to $18.50 an hour, so shouldn't I get that if I am paying all the over head expense and doing all the work. If I went back to the construction work that I did for years in Nuclear Power Plants I could expect to get $28 to $35 an hour plus another $75 to $125 a day tax free per deim. So to get to the point if they don't want to pay at least a good part of what it's worth tell them to go to Wal-Mart and let them make it for them. Some years back I made a good friend a belt for himself and another for his son. Sometime later he came up an brought his wife, who I didn't hardly know anyway. She liked their belts and wanted me to make her a pocketbook, she picked out one like the MarketPlace bags that Tandy, Hidecrafters, etc., sold. Then she looked through some things and picked out what she wanted tooled on it along with her name. She finally asked me how much for that and because Troy and I were friends I told her $165.00, LOL, I thought she was gonna choke to death or something. Not no, but Hell no that's too much, so I asked her how much did you pay for the bag that you've got with you and she said I got a good deal on this bag it was on sale at such and such for $239.95. Then I liked to have choked or something, but the end result was I told her to get the hell out of my house and told Troy to come see me when he could, but I would not do any thing for her. Later she asked me several times about doing some things always same answer she gave me not no but Hell no. Just a few times and she has left me along about it. Anyway enough rambling for now, but remember this if you're gonna make like you're proud of it then price it and sell it like you're proud of it. Different areas will have a different amount that the market will stand, but find it and go for the top especially if you're the only one around that can do what you do. Billy P

[broncobuster]

well put Billy. Ive been one who dont charge enough then I got smart lol took a while but when you get comments like I can get it cheaper at walmart or the truck stop I finally said go there and get it. youll be back cause you know what the quality is. Ive got people who give me a hard time on replacing zippers in coats n stuff Im going it takes this long to take it out this long to put the new one in then this amount for the zipper a good metal one. then i get well i can get a whole new coat for that. then I go youll be back cause that zipper will go out. they wake up after a bit or they never come back. never a loss there is always more to show up and do pay what its worth. when I have time at shows Ill do some tooling then i have watchers then they start to realize that its not one big stamp that it takes a lot of time to put in those patterns on something. then I get orders. just do what ya got to do. if this is your living ya got to charge.