Why Woolskins?

[JAM]

Hi, all,

I was perusing an earlier topic about woolskin compression, and how a new saddle doesn't really fit the horse until the woolskins are compressed, and how to speed up the compression; and I got to pondering why we use them at all. Why not just put leather on the undersides of the skirts? Has anyone tried this? Does anyone have a functional answer as to why or why not line the skirts with woolskins? Just curious.

Julia

[Sylvia]

I could be wrong but I would think that even compressed wool on the skins would provide a measure of protection for the horse. Consider that even a well fitting, tightly cinched saddle will have some movement. Prolonged rubbing would cause skin ulcers (think blisters) which would invite infection. I would think that we would want to do everything possible to protect such an expensive animal, especially if the horse is a stock or range rider's horse that could potentially save our lives.

[JAM]

But the saddle is always sitting on a pad or blanket (or two). English saddles are leather on the underside and sit on various kinds of blankets or pads - so I'm not convinced that rubbing is the answer (yet). But that's certainly one idea to think about

[tnawrot2]

English saddles have adding between the tree and the leather we see, it is not tree covered with leather. Whereas a western saddle has tree, leather then the wool skin. So both English and Western saddles have padding between the tree and the horse if put on the horse without and extra pads or blankets.

[oltoot]

I think but am not absolutely sure that it is a mix of tradition and adaptation. The rawhide covered tree comes to us from a marriage of native American and Moorish tradition. Part of that was to put some kind of long haired hide down as a pad which eventually became a sewed in lining and tannage of woolskins developed along the way. btw sheepskin was in short supply during WWII as it was used for military clothing and saddles during that period were sometimes lined with leather of felt. When sheepskin became readily available again it regained its popularity. It really does help some in providing an interim softness layer. I have tried to convince several customers to skip the sheepskin and invest in a new high-tech pad; so far to no avail. I'll continue to advocate for it but wont break with tradition unless I get a big deposit.

[JAM]

Well, since I build saddles I think I'll do an experiment with my own saddle and take the woolskin off and see what happens. I can always put it back on if it turns out to be a bad idea. The historical perspective sounds familiar based on old saddles I've seen, and pictures of even earlier traditions. That's part of what I was wondering. Thanks, everyone.

[Matt S]

I was taught (from the English tradition) that saddle pads and blankets are there to absorb sweat, grease and dirt; easier to wash and dry one than your saddle. If your saddle's rubbing you have a fit problem and no end of padding will solve that. As mentioned above English saddles have a layer of wool padding between the tree and the puter layer already. Replacement of this is a skilled job when it eventually felts down so I suppose this could be one reason why woolskin might be a better althernative, especially on a Western tree where the contact surface is much larger (and thus the pressure lower) than an English tree.

[Ken Nelson]

Decades of wearing saddles out on ranches and feedlots and over a dozen years of building them, along with countless hours of researching the why of doing things have pointed me in the direction of: Woolskins main purpose is to help the saddle keep from moving excessively first and cushion secondly. That said, I have seen old saddles that had the wool matted down to where there was no padding to speak of and they did not sore horses. this is from my personal observation. However if you rub your hand from front to back on these saddles, you will feel a certain amount of resistance in fact some feel they get "stickier" when they are matted down well. This also depends on how good a quality of woolsking went into the skirts in the first place. They old timers that were around when I was a kid and a really young man had a lot of answers and most of them made sense if you could get them to explain their opinions. They did not seem to be as concerned about cushioning as they were about keeping the saddle from moving around with a fairly loose cinch. Beleive me these old boys would ride a horse hard all day long in open country and still be a horseback at supper time. They roped a lot of cattle and protecting a horses back was very important to them. AS SAID; A man a horseback is a cowboy or rancher taking care of his cattle, A man afoot is a cow farmer watching his cattle get away! Therefore, the first consideration was for fitting the horse and helping to keep him working. 50 years ago on them ranches I was on and around, the quality of sheepskin in a saddle was a quality factor considered when getting a new saddle. In my opinion, it still is. Thanks for your patience. Ken

[JAM]

Outstanding answer to my query, thanks!

[bruce johnson]

One of the showring pleasure saddle companies tried a foam padding under the bars and then a layer of leather over that. I rode a few colts for a guy in college and he had one. It slid around a lot.

[JAM]

Ah-hah! That's what I was curious about.

[Aurelie]

Decades of wearing saddles out on ranches and feedlots and over a dozen years of building them, along with countless hours of researching the why of doing things have pointed me in the direction of: Woolskins main purpose is to help the saddle keep from moving excessively first and cushion secondly. That said, I have seen old saddles that had the wool matted down to where there was no padding to speak of and they did not sore horses. this is from my personal observation. However if you rub your hand from front to back on these saddles, you will feel a certain amount of resistance in fact some feel they get "stickier" when they are matted down well. This also depends on how good a quality of woolsking went into the skirts in the first place. They old timers that were around when I was a kid and a really young man had a lot of answers and most of them made sense if you could get them to explain their opinions. They did not seem to be as concerned about cushioning as they were about keeping the saddle from moving around with a fairly loose cinch. Beleive me these old boys would ride a horse hard all day long in open country and still be a horseback at supper time. They roped a lot of cattle and protecting a horses back was very important to them. AS SAID; A man a horseback is a cowboy or rancher taking care of his cattle, A man afoot is a cow farmer watching his cattle get away! Therefore, the first consideration was for fitting the horse and helping to keep him working. 50 years ago on them ranches I was on and around, the quality of sheepskin in a saddle was a quality factor considered when getting a new saddle. In my opinion, it still is. Thanks for your patience. Ken

the whole "western saddle and its purpose " in a nutshell! :D

I wish that people in france could get that stamped in their skull

my job would be easier

thanks for that explanation

[Ken Nelson]

A cowboy saddle is a complex piece of equipment. Every part of the saddle has evolved for at least a century and a half through trial and error. Fit, construction, material, style and workmanship all play into how good a saddle is and how well it work IF it is used and adjusted correctly. Does not matter if it is a plain roughout or a total work of art. To them old cowboys that were working 60 to 125 years ago, if it didn't sore horses or men(horses most important), was tough, had an ocean of miles in it and lasted for years IT WAS A GOOD SADDLE! While there have been some great strides made in saddlery the last few decades, such as stainless steel hardware, nylon thread and others, when I see composite trees being used, felt linings, treeless saddles manmade "leather" and such being advertised as cowboy saddles, I have to shake my head. I have had some of the old Hamleys, Miles City Saddlery and others come into my shop for tune ups that have had holes worn in the seats the size of pocket watches. That took years of hard riding. Had several old cowboys tell me they had "rode that old saddle for 30 years on them big outfits, finally quit it after them holes wore through the seat. That took a lot of riding, roping, days in the rain and snow, blistering heat and bone crushing cold. I would like to think I build saddles that will stand up and provide service like that but I always wonder. I think if we are going to consider ourselves cowboy saddlemakers, we need to strive to build them as good as they have ever been built. Me, I am going to keep on building on high quality rawhide covered trees, as they have proved themselves for over 100 years, I use #1 Hermann Oak leather and # 1 bark tanned sheepskins. Every day I strive to build a saddle as good as I have ever worked on and pray I am acheiving it. Ken

Edited January 6, 2013 by Ken Nelson

[Aurelie]

"Amen" :D

same tune here

I am proud of being taught how to build saddles the same way you see it

and i intend of keeping that way

even if it a real pain in the butt to explain customers why you use the best and why it does cost so much....but for sure those saddles will outlive me

[JAM]

Great answers, all of them. Thank you. I, too, am a traditionalist, and as I said in my first post, after the compression thread I got to pondering... Sometimes individuals will do a thing a certain way just because it's the way they were taught (and occasionally that's not the best way, depending on who was doing the teaching). Even if it's traditional and has stood the test of time, I want to know WHY. As for the woolskin question, you've all answered that question really well.

[Ken Nelson]

Back in the Day, a lot of the traditional standards were set through trial and error in the west half of the country by people that depended on horses for the work they were doing, were the main source of transportation and literally were depended on to sustain life for a majority of people. Not all of the standards common place 100 years ago the best option available today. Nor were all the saddles, tack and harness all top quality. Then as now, there was first quality equipment and it settled to the bottom of junk. I really feel before we jump on a band wagon and fully support a new idea, we should do a lot of research on it and make an EDUCATED decision. Unless you are riding a lot of different horses and riding them hard, it will take a long time before you really find out if a new idea is a good one. Better yet, if you think you have a realy good idea that is better than traditional ideas, build up 5 or 6 saddles and have 6 big outfit cowboys in some big old rough country ride them for 2 years and see how your idea preforms.I am talking about cowboys that ride 6 or 7 days a week, 12-14 hours a day in rough country, all kinds of weather doing whatever needs done a horseback. I would liken it to research and developmewnt by an automobile company. Because an idea is new does not mean it is not a good idea. However the last few years, I have seen a lot of break throughs come along dreamed up by someone that has never pulled 360 days ahorseback in one year, went through a dozen or more horses during that year, done everything that can be done on a horse on that ranch during that year. If you do that kind of cowboying for 20 or 30 years, you will learn a LOT! Never stop thinking! Never stop improving! Never stop learning. You will stop learning when they shovel dirt on top of your coffin> Ken

Edited January 6, 2013 by Ken Nelson

[lottarope]

I've tried down coats, canvas coats, polyester Holofil coats, nylon slickers and none of them are as good as my Filson wool coats. Especially when they get wet. I know we are not using wool here for heat retention but it occurs to me that sheep over several thousand years have done a lot of good R&D work for me. I haven't found a synthetic that retains the level cushion that sheep skin does and wool felt padding doesn't behave the same as woolskin does. I like the ideas of synthetic trees, nylon latigos, fake woolskin, and wonder pads but have yet to see any of these are better than a properly fit and rigged saddle with a heavy Navaho blanket.

I guess for me the final test is to take my knuckles and wrap them against the bars the fake fuzzy stuff strikes me as pretty much just cosmetic. I also know from experience that wool skin helps hold blankets in place because my saddle has been starting to slip blankets some and I know the woolskin has needed replaced for a while.