Louis Vuitton Leather

[chiefjason]

From what I read it is legal to do custom work of something that is copyrighted as long as it is a custom piece, meaning it was recommended by the customer. person to person. I guess it is because you aren't using the copyrighted image or logo to implying that your company is affiliated with that company and is merely a custom piece. But if you mass produce something with copy righted images or logos than it is illegal.

The simplest way I understand this issue is that I can make myself a holster with the Harley Davidson logo on it, for example. But I can't make you one and sell it to you. I have a friend in the sewing machine business. The folks that have the rights to Barney come very close to suing and bankrupting one of their clients for copyright infringement. That lady was selling stuff she made at a local flea market. Not exactly the big time. Some of these companies can, and will pursue you for it. She was warned not to do it and she nearly lost everything ignoring that.

Artwork does fall into a bit of a grey area. If the guy is kind of famous for it, they may be ignoring him and taking it as free marketing. But that's an expensive game to play if you are wrong.

[Zen Diesel]

The simplest way I understand this issue is that I can make myself a holster with the Harley Davidson logo on it, for example. But I can't make you one and sell it to you. I have a friend in the sewing machine business. The folks that have the rights to Barney come very close to suing and bankrupting one of their clients for copyright infringement. That lady was selling stuff she made at a local flea market. Not exactly the big time. Some of these companies can, and will pursue you for it. She was warned not to do it and she nearly lost everything ignoring that.

Artwork does fall into a bit of a grey area. If the guy is kind of famous for it, they may be ignoring him and taking it as free marketing. But that's an expensive game to play if you are wrong.

Not to be argumentative, but I have reached out to one of my lawyer friends who deals in copyright cases. I am truly curious now.

As far as reproducing / counterfeiting Barney products. Well serves her right, when you blatantly go out and steals someone's design and don't have an agreement and don't pay licensing. Then you have to be willing to pay the price. In my mind the difference here is not that you are producing unlicensed copies of copyright / trademarked works. But rather you are taking the elements of one thing and making them into something new, as long as you are not doing some sort of elaborate counterfeit scheme I don't think those laws should apply.

Finally I would like to end with I think that if you are willing to pay a craftsperson to ply their trade and make something custom that, the very act of the thing would classify it as art. A limited run of something vs. a sweatshop in a developing nation pumping out low or high quality counterfeits are not the same in my mind and should not be treated the same way.

[chiefjason]

The vagaries of this make the arguments/discussions endless. I bet you could ask 10 lawyers and get 11 different answers. Copyright law is vague and messy in the details. These arguments last a while even when it's about art, and I mean true artwork as opposed to crafts or trades.

My best plan is when in doubt, stay away.

[Zen Diesel]

Not to be argumentative, but I have reached out to one of my lawyer friends who deals in copyright cases. I am truly curious now.

As far as reproducing / counterfeiting Barney products. Well serves her right, when you blatantly go out and steals someone's design and don't have an agreement and don't pay licensing. Then you have to be willing to pay the price. In my mind the difference here is not that you are producing unlicensed copies of copyright / trademarked works. But rather you are taking the elements of one thing and making them into something new, as long as you are not doing some sort of elaborate counterfeit scheme I don't think those laws should apply.

Finally I would like to end with I think that if you are willing to pay a craftsperson to ply their trade and make something custom that, the very act of the thing would classify it as art. A limited run of something vs. a sweatshop in a developing nation pumping out low or high quality counterfeits are not the same in my mind and should not be treated the same way.

Okay I looked into this further. I did consult my friend who works in copyright law. So here is his opinion. First I am going to give a quick disclaimer. I am not a lawyer and I am not pretending to be one. Any information given is an opinion and not legal advice. If you decide to take on a project like this and you want peace of mind hire a lawyer. Personally if something comes up like this for me, this is generally what I will be doing.

2 questions.

Q: Can i take a LV bag that I own, turn it into something else and sell it?

A: You will likely get sued if this is your business model.

Q: If a customer owns the LV bag and wants me to modify it into something else would this be problematic?

A: Generally once a thing is purchased the trademark holder loses any right to control the good thereafter.

So the short answer is that so long as you are modifying a good that a customer owns and not manufacturing goods looking for a buyer then you are within the bounds of the law. The legal technicality is to have your customer purchase the genuine article (to avoid counterfeiting and because fake goods are cruddy practice) and to charge for your time and experience and not those materials. LV cannot tell you what you can or cannot do with property you own (so long as you do not sell it after you make it) and they cannot tell your customer what they can have you as the leathercrafter to do.

[CustomDoug]

I was just discussing this with a friend, not really knowing what you guys were discussing in this thread.. but what's your (collective) impressions of how the following company does what it does [see link]:

http://www.hermesbirkinbagsgo.com/

Doug

[DavidL]

That website is just selling fake handbags, that say made in france and also hermes. Perhaps if it had their company name and not taken some of the patented birkin design it would be okay. I think the difference is like zen said they have to buy a real bag from hermes then your service is to customize the bag and create your art work whether its painting or reconstructing. All of custom shoe reconstructers require you to first buy a nike shoe then send it in and they offer a service to customize it. Similar to a person buying a car and customizing the seats, doors and paint by an auto shop.

[Zen Diesel]

I was just discussing this with a friend, not really knowing what you guys were discussing in this thread.. but what's your (collective) impressions of how the following company does what it does [see link]:

http://www.hermesbirkinbagsgo.com/

Doug

This is a company that makes counterfeit bags. They are honest about it at least. More honest than the purchasers of these bags are. The website is hosted in the US but the owner is in China.

[CustomDoug]

This is a company that makes counterfeit bags. They are honest about it at least. More honest than the purchasers of these bags are. The website is hosted in the US but the owner is in China.

Your counterfeit is their replica.

I don't see how it's possible - they run a website that is blatant and in your face with stealing the identity of this company. Unless, of course Hermes has a hand in it... not saying they do, but at the same time it wouldn't be a bad business decision with each bag being $500 or so. That kind of thing's been done before. Then again maybe Hermes only allows high quality fakes (doesn't seem likely though)? Or perhaps international laws regarding copy rights muddies the waters too much for Hermes to stop them? This company excepts Visa and Master Card so those accounts could be seized if Hermes wanted (via court order, lawsuit).. they also claim to be members of the BBB and are VeriSign Trusted, etc..

To say that the purchasers are more dishonest is debatable IMHO, especially if the above were true.

Doug C

Edited October 7, 2014 by CustomDoug

[Ed in Tx]

As far as any copyright or patent infringement goes you can copy any designer item down to the stitch counts as long as you don't put that makers insignia or emblem on the item. Making an exact copy isn't an issue as long as you aren't trying to pass it off as genuine.

[DavidL]

samsung had a phone that had a similar curve design to the iPhone 4 or 5 and apple sued samsung for a million and won . Which is ridiculous. Samsung sent them trucks filled with pennies...

I think that that its impossible to stop fakes from being sold. A new store by the same person will come up in a few days after the site is taken down. Any one who buys a fake for 300 instead of the real for 5k is more into fashion than luxury, so hermes probably doesnt care.