HideCrafters Catalog?

[GampasShop]

A year ago I had requested a Hidecrafters Catalog (about the time of the sale, reorg whatever) and I never did get one. Then a couple of weeks ago I requested another, still no catalog. Do they actually have a catalog available? Or do you have to call them and give a secret password to get one??

[Roger]

A year ago I had requested a Hidecrafters Catalog (about the time of the sale, reorg whatever) and I never did get one. Then a couple of weeks ago I requested another, still no catalog. Do they actually have a catalog available? Or do you have to call them and give a secret password to get one??

if you go to their website you can download the 2006 cataloge in PDF format.

from what i understand they dropped some stuff that wasn't moving all that well.

i won't deal with them till they get things straightened out but, that's just me.

[rustyriggin]

I called them a couple months ago, and the story I got was they were out of catalogs, and were waiting on some more, and would get them out ASAP. Still waiting along with everyone else, but Tandy and Weaver are making some good money while I wait. I'm not gonna spend $100 on ink to print out a catalog to have in front of me when I compare prices, so Hidecrafters aren't even an option when I look for something right now. If I can't trust them to get me a catalog, I'm sure not going to give them a credit card number and hope they send my order.

[Timd]

A while back, they sent me a new price list, along with a catalog with the prices removed. I've made some purchases , nothing big, and I'm happy with them. I really like thier Pro-Tools. I for one will stick with them, gotta help the little guy.

[ArtS]

They still haven't gotten the new one together. They have been dependable for the few items that I've bought from them recently.

ArtS

[Tina]

I have bought from them twice recently and I'm really happy.

I just called them up, got loads of help over the phone so I got the right product and my order was shipped the next day. Some carving tools is unfortunatly discontinued :-(

[Rawhide]

I have bought from them twice recently and I'm really happy.

I just called them up, got loads of help over the phone so I got the right product and my order was shipped the next day. Some carving tools is unfortunatly discontinued :-(

I went into H/C yesterday and believe me they are busy. They've got a ton of classes lined up from George Hurst, to Peter Main, to Barry King. What Ron told me is that they have to complete the "what do we keep, what do we offer" lists first before they can complete the catalog. I know everybody wants it right now in this digital age. I still think they are a viable supplier and will continue to use them.

Marlon

[David]

I went into H/C yesterday and believe me they are busy. They've got a ton of classes lined up from George Hurst, to Peter Main, to Barry King. What Ron told me is that they have to complete the "what do we keep, what do we offer" lists first before they can complete the catalog. I know everybody wants it right now in this digital age. I still think they are a viable supplier and will continue to use them.

Marlon

I also thought they were a viable supplier, I'm personally not too sure they are going to make it. To be without a catalog for over 2 years tells me they are not real serious about producing a new one.

Dave

[King's X]

I just placed an order yesterday and found out that the online catalog is not up to date. An item that I wanted to order was discontinued. They will check while they have you on the phone. I was very happy with the rest of the service.

[TwinOaks]

It seems to me that the issue is not with H/C proper, it is with their IT support- specifically their web development and support. It takes a pretty active effort to keep a website maintained when there are BUNCHES of hits. Throw in the prospect of an active web store and it can get pretty chaotic. Price lists need to be updated probably weekly to reflect shipping, and production costs. Things like warehouse and labor should be pretty constant, and therefore easy to account.

All this means that while they have a good customer base at a local level, they really need to up their game to play on the internet business level. That means a good bit of capital, and more than a bit of talent with web design, development, and support. So I say let's help them. They obviously don't want to go under, and since they do happen to sell some things we like....put an ear out for some people that could help them. I'll drop a PM to Cort and see if he's got time to lend some help.

In other words, as we all help each other, let's get behind H/C and try to help them out too.

[ArtS]

They have always been a great help to me and a good source since I started tooling.

ArtS

[CitizenKate]

It really doesn't make any difference to me where I buy my stuff, as long as there is someone who has what I need. So they can take 10 years, for all it matters to me.

It's nice to hear the local showroom is busy, and I'm glad to know they are keeping you happy, Marlon, but the fact is, they have obviously lost a serious volume of business in the last year. There are a lot of great leather workers in the Fort Worth/Dallas area, but the local market can't possibly make up more than about 30-40% of what they formerly sold to, so I would think it would behoove them, for their own sake, to do what it takes to get this done. On the other hand, if the current management doesn't mind shrinking the business down to just one local operation, it wouldn't make sense to me, but that's their decision.

Kate

I went into H/C yesterday and believe me they are busy. They've got a ton of classes lined up from George Hurst, to Peter Main, to Barry King. What Ron told me is that they have to complete the "what do we keep, what do we offer" lists first before they can complete the catalog. I know everybody wants it right now in this digital age. I still think they are a viable supplier and will continue to use them.

Marlon

[CitizenKate]

TwinOaks, who does IT report to? I am not informed about the internals of the organization, but if IT is not doing their job, as defined by their management, it is a management decision to replace the people doing the work. If IT is doing what management orders, and the desired effect is not achieved, then management needs to change the job requirements. Bottom line: this is on management. They get to choose whether to serve your needs or not.

Kate

It seems to me that the issue is not with H/C proper, it is with their IT support- specifically their web development and support. It takes a pretty active effort to keep a website maintained when there are BUNCHES of hits. Throw in the prospect of an active web store and it can get pretty chaotic. Price lists need to be updated probably weekly to reflect shipping, and production costs. Things like warehouse and labor should be pretty constant, and therefore easy to account.

All this means that while they have a good customer base at a local level, they really need to up their game to play on the internet business level. That means a good bit of capital, and more than a bit of talent with web design, development, and support. So I say let's help them. They obviously don't want to go under, and since they do happen to sell some things we like....put an ear out for some people that could help them. I'll drop a PM to Cort and see if he's got time to lend some help.

In other words, as we all help each other, let's get behind H/C and try to help them out too.

[TwinOaks]

In regards to the decision being up to management, I totally agree. However, I don't believe it's uncommon for management to be completely ignorant of some technical issues- such as web based marketing. This can especially be the case if the management's expertise is on something more mundane like master level leather craft and related tools and equipment. Also, some companies elect to outsource web related duties.

Then again, I concede that it's entirely possible that someone in the company thought it'd be great to have a website, took efforts to make that happen, then decided to leave the company. Remaining company personnel didn't particularly care for the website idea and have let it go to pot.

My first post wasn't intended as a call to arms, though I see how it could be so taken. I just think that if the company has things we like, it'd behoove us to help them succeed. Personally, I'm rather put off by the quality of several of my Craftool stamps from Tandy, and have been looking at other options.

[Michael Sheldon]

It seems to me that the issue is not with H/C proper, it is with their IT support- specifically their web development and support. It takes a pretty active effort to keep a website maintained when there are BUNCHES of hits. Throw in the prospect of an active web store and it can get pretty chaotic.

Um, have you actually been to their site?

They don't *have* a web store. They have an extremely basic website, with a PDF version of their print catalog. Thus, it's not the IT guys responsible for the catalog being out of date, it's the marketing department. And given that their site hasn't been updated at all in a long time, I doubt they even *have* an IT department.

As for it being difficult, etc ad nauseum to run a web shop. No, actually, it's pretty easy. I own a hosting business that provides ecommerce setups. We can have a store functional in under 24 hours, ready to enter the inventory. And yeah, entering that inventory is a drag if you've got a lot, but I've had customers with 1000+ item inventories do it in just a couple days. Once the setup is complete, maintenance is a breeze.

From my point of view, HC is putting all their energy into local in-store sales, and just taking what they get in phone orders as a bonus. And that's their choice to make. But it does arbitrarily limit their sales. There's a number of folks like me who do the administrative stuff at odd hours, and thus really prefer to place orders online. Because HC has chosen not to provide that, I haven't purchased anything from them in a long time. I have ordered from them before, and I've never been unhappy with them, but it's not convenient for me.

[Rawhide]

Um, have you actually been to their site?

They don't *have* a web store. They have an extremely basic website, with a PDF version of their print catalog. Thus, it's not the IT guys responsible for the catalog being out of date, it's the marketing department. And given that their site hasn't been updated at all in a long time, I doubt they even *have* an IT department.

As for it being difficult, etc ad nauseum to run a web shop. No, actually, it's pretty easy. I own a hosting business that provides ecommerce setups. We can have a store functional in under 24 hours, ready to enter the inventory. And yeah, entering that inventory is a drag if you've got a lot, but I've had customers with 1000+ item inventories do it in just a couple days. Once the setup is complete, maintenance is a breeze.

From my point of view, HC is putting all their energy into local in-store sales, and just taking what they get in phone orders as a bonus. And that's their choice to make. But it does arbitrarily limit their sales. There's a number of folks like me who do the administrative stuff at odd hours, and thus really prefer to place orders online. Because HC has chosen not to provide that, I haven't purchased anything from them in a long time. I have ordered from them before, and I've never been unhappy with them, but it's not convenient for me.

They do not have a web store...yet, they are planning to have a purchase online option. I'm not sure who they contracted for IT, but I'm pretty sure they don't have their own IT department.

Kate,

I agree that we as a local community can only account for so much business, plus I think that they do need to get on the ball and get it done. For folks like me or those who don't mind calling in orders, it probably doesn't make much difference. But for those who depend on web buying and the like...they are losing countless customers daily. I hope they can get it right.

Marlon

[Hilly]

I've used HC a few times. I was satisfied with the service, and really enjoyed chatting with the guy that answered the phones.

Since their restructuring however, I find them a PITA, as it seems everything you need has been discontinued. Till they get a current CATALOG out, my money's going to Tandy, and other's who have a current CATALOG.

(I really hope someone from HC reads this forum )

Hilly

[TwinOaks]

To clarify: Yes, I've been to their site. Also: Having a static web page- no problem. Adding links or hot buttons for item info and larger pictures- still no problem, provided you know how to do it. """ Throw in the prospect of an active web store and it can get pretty chaotic."""

No, I don't mean that it's difficult to do, but for a company that has no experience in it, it could get rather confusing. They won't know for sure what bandwidth to lease, whether to pay the upfront costs for video (youtube style instructionals) vs. static pic, whether to make the e-commerce store match the print catalog (presuming they still have one). They'll probably be told to increase the quality of their pics, and more megapixels = a tiny bit more bandwidth to transmit = more $ spent. Do they need to expand their inventory orders from the suppliers, add more employees, etc.? Also, will they decide to host the website on their own, and be responsible en toto for pricing lists, new items, et al., or should they ( best choice, here) use a hosting service that provides contracted maintainence, redundant backups, and guaranteed 'up time' for the site? They'll also want an undeliverable promise for a ROI. I didn't presume that they had a webstore, as there was no link to order anything. I don't have your experience in e-commerce, hosting, etc. My statement was from the POV of an electrician who dabbles in leather and computers; just an ordinary blue collar guy working on his management degree, without the benefit of deep immersion into web technology. But I'm working on it.

I recently received a PM from a member who formerly worked for them, and has confirmed "no IT dept.". That means that they'll be shopping for someone to update/rebuild their site if they want to get a share of the internet orders. Michael Sheldon, this might be a good opportunity for you. You've got a business resource they need, and you are familiar with leatherworking. You've also got a pretty good source right here for the likes and dislikes of HC customers.

Edited September 6, 2008 by TwinOaks

[BillB]

I thought I might add some additional information to be considered in this discussion.

My background is in computers, and I work in and on highly controlled and maintained systems for security reasons.

In todays Internet World, a business has to make a lot of decisions about setting up a Web based service.

1. Is it done In-House or do we buy the service.

If done In-House:

How big is the pipe from the internet that we will need and what is the recurring cost of that pipe?;

How big of a machine do we buy and how much disc space?;

Does the data store need to be backed-up, how and on what, e.g. RAID system versus disc or tape archive or a mirrored system?:

How much does this cost and how is O&M performed?;

What is all the software required and the licenses and O&M t go with it?;

How much security do we need?

How much of the internal business data store do we expose to hacking? (Remember when our website went down do to hacking?)

What are the legal responsibilities in regards to protection of OUR customers information?

Do we need a bigger legal staff?

If it is done by a service:

How reliable is that service (remember the crash a while back and Johanna changed services?)

What are their Non-recurring cost (setup, etc) and what are the recurring costs?

How secure are they?;

What are their legal responsibilities if they are hacked and OUR customer data is exposed?

2. How does this service fit into the overall Corporate Business Plan?

3. How much Risk is the Company willing to take?

4. How long will it take to recover the cost?

I am sure I have not walked down all the decision trees that a Company or a Corporation must make before it is makes its decision and they have to do this while maintaining their current business line or service.

Today, security is probably the biggest concern. In the world I work in and the computers I deal with we get on average over 100 attempts per minute to get into our systems. Most of these are not direct attacks, but attacks that have gone through other systems, e.g universities and companies that have not closed all the back-doors.

Not all companies are willing to take the risks involved with a Web based Sales service. I deal with several that only have their "Calling Card" on the web and require all transaction to be either in person or via phone or email.

I do not fault H/C, they have a difficult decision to make. I hope they make it soon.

Just thought you might like another perspective

[Roger]

i was fine with what they had. i don't think they need an online store at all.

the simple site they have (UPDATED) with an updated pdf cataloge.

ordering by email or fax is the only way i will do business.

i don't have the time to spend on the phone and i won't waste my time with them till they update the cataloge

[Prince]

I've ordered some stuff from them that was hard to find elsewhere but I agree with most opinions that they need to do something about their catalog and the sooner the better. Scrolling though a PDF is kind of annoying too. Really inconvenient and time consuming actually. I hope they logically divide and organize and catalog their items to their website (in web format, not PDF), shopping cart site or not. But it's for them to decide if they want to appease the internet market. It'd be a boost to sales for sure. I also hope someone there reads this forum thread but I'm sure they're not oblivious to their situation either. Stuff happens and they may have encountered a big setback that takes priority. If they're worried about going under I think it's as simple as expanding to online sales and offering a good variety of stuff. Possibly the head honcho is an old dog wary of online sales? Doesn't do anything to speculate as to what the situation is. Hopefully they'll be back in the saddle soon. My point of view anyway.

[hivemind]

I'd like to buy some stamps from them, but the inconvenience of having to make a phone call means it's always going to be a future-tense activity for me...

[Timd]

Well, here's a liiiitle light, I just recieved a 2008 price list. I know, it's september, but... Inside was a flyer with some pretty good deals. I for one don't mind talking to my suppliers on the phone, so I'll keep throwing them whatever I can.

[Luke Hatley]

I received the new price list also........Give them a chance, i beleive they will be

worth it...

[Warren]

I received the new price list but I have never received a catalog, so I tried to get on the website to look at the PDF catalog but the website wouldn't come up. I don't know whats going on but I don't buy when I can't at least look at a picture of what I'm buying. Until that changes they're not getting any orders from me.