Rifle Scabbard Issue

[reuben cogburn]

I'm designing/building a scabbard for a guy. Technically it is for a shotgun.

The issue I'm having is that the charging handle (bolt handle/knob) on the shotgun is an extended enlarged variety.

I want to do something other than just allow more room in the scabbard by making it a big large, but I don't want it to be to complicated to assemble.

Anybody ever encounter a situation like this?

I thought of cutting a long slot in the scabbard, then sewing in a formed piece over the slot. I could use a pice of aluminum etc and sandwich it between two thin pieces, form it, then sew that onto the scabbard, but that is hitting the complicated end. I'd rather explore options as there may be something "easy"...

[Tree Reaper]

Can you leave the bolt handle out of the case or does it have to be enclosed?

[reuben cogburn]

He wants as much enclosed as possible as the scabbard will be lashed to the wing struts of his bush plane (outside!). Describing this is kinda difficult.. I'll try and get some pics up....

This bolt handle isn't like one on a rifle. It is just a knob that sticks out, and it sits far forward of where a bolt on a rifle would. It can be removed, but would be easy to misplace.

If I cut a slot it would be halfway up the side of the scabbard. It would compromise the structural integrity as well....

This shotgun is used as bear protection in Alaska. The pilot doesn't want to have to worry about partially disassembling the gun to put it in the scabbard, or in case he needs the gun quickly!.

I also thought of sewing some type of spacer on the inside that let the handle ride inside a channel.

I'm experimenting with scraps right now. This is going to be an...................... interesting..............project......

Edited June 24, 2013 by reuben cogburn

[Matt S]

The US army ones from the 40s (m1 rifle and carbine) had rivetted on steel channels to getvaround exactly this issue.

[reuben cogburn]

I might have to do a search and take a look at one. I wasn't aware they made one like that. The bolt handle position on the carbine would be in a similar position..

[TomG]

How about wet forming a channel down the scabbard with a square dowel rod.

Tom

[Tree Reaper]

Not to ruin your project but he might be better off with a molded plastic scabbard and let you make a leather harness that would fit the strut.

The plastic jobs are molded for a bolt.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Tree Reaper

[reuben cogburn]

I could definetly just mold a channel, but it wouldn't hold up long. not with the abuse it is going to get. Thats why I figured if I did it that way I'd support it with a bit of light metal. Like a steel lined quickdraw holster....

He wants it in leather.. I'm sure a Kolpin would suffice. He has been using a much modified old leather rifle scabbard but it is pretty much shot. He wants something more custom??.. I guess..... to fit his Benelli riot gun.

I guess I'd rather make the $$$ than walmart..

And I love a good challenge... Or so I keep telling myself!

And, he is a regular customer. This is the first scabbard of this type for me. Other than the bolt handle, it is pretty straight forward. I just want it to look and work properly..

Thanks for the input!!

[Northmount]

You can form Kydex and fit it into your molded design for support. It's light weight and can be glued in with barge contact cement. Rough up the smooth surface with 80 grit sandpaper.

The Kydex might even do for wet molding your leather.

Tom

[Tree Reaper]

I'm not a salesman for Koplin but what about a leather covered Koplin?

The leather could be molded around the case and it would have the support of the plastic to protect it from the foul weather it's going to see.

[Tree Reaper]

One aesthetic method for total leather construction would be to line the entire leather scabbard with suede and sandwich the bolt support between the suede and the leather.

[oltoot]

Years ago, I used an old GI scabbard with a Garand I sure wish I still had and the bolt handle channel was very unobtrusive ( didn't use words like that in those days) I'll bet a good sheet metal shop could make you one from your choice of materials, maybe you could have it made from ~ 20 ga and then glue a pigskin cover over it and the rivet it on.

[camano ridge]

Something along these lines (see picture). The channel could be painted or covered with leather. Kydex could also be used to form the channel and left natural or covered with leather. If you go for kydex and don't have the experience with or are not set up for kydex PM me and I can mold the channel for you.

Scott

[oltoot]

YEEEESSSS! talk about nostalgic (another word I didn't use in the 'good' old days)

[medsar]

When I think of a charging handle on a shotgun, I think of this: (attached image)

Is that what you mean?

I have to agree with the above posters -- stainless steel in 18 to 20g will work well and hold up to the elements. You don't need to go to a metal shop if you don't want to. Make a mold of the channel out of wood and then use auto body dollies to form the metal. (see attached picture). Aluminum is alluring to have because it is light, but it is not as easy to work with without more specialized metal shop tools. If you need light as well as easy to form at home, think titanium (expensive) or Kydex.

Kydex will also work well (.8 or .92) but Kydex does have the problem that it gets brittle at cold temperatures. That does not mean Kydex is a bad choice, rather it means that you should use caution if you want to use the charging handle as a retention point in the scabard (didn't sound you wanted to anyway). If you have troubles or questions about forming Kydex, give me a PM. I might even have scrap around.

One piece of advice that I learned the hard way from making holsters for people who abuse them: flare out the end of the charging channel holder. When the user throws the gun into the holster/scabard (literally) the charging handle gets guided into the channel.

[reuben cogburn]

Good points made....

Lots of things get brittle up here!...... Kolpins cases, totes and many plastics crack in temperature extremes. As me how I know!

Yes, the bolt handle is like the ones pictured.

I'd post pics but my digital went kablooie, during my raft ride back to town this spring....

Thanks for the offer to beld some metal. I have 11 years experience in press operation so I know the drill... I may use some tin I have lying around. Old rolled roofing that has come in handy for stuff.

I'm still wanting simple.. for assembly, and potential repairs....

Thanks y'all....

[silverwingit]

+1 on the Kydex! It's very easy to work with. It would be a snap to make a wooden mold for your bolt channel around which to form the hot Kydex. Kydex also comes in different colors. You could get creative if you want to with the available color schemes. Plus, you can stitch Kydex right into the surrounding leather with the appropriate machine or by hand. It could be the difference between something slapped together versus something designed right in.

[reuben cogburn]

Here is another interesting development...

He wants the scabbard to serve both as rifle and shotgun...

Shotgun has 21" barrel, ghost ring sights, and extended mag tube..

Rifle has 24" barrel and a scope.. bolt action...

Now I'm thinking the contour for the scope is the main issue for the moment.... Maybe run the seam along the top rather than the bottom. That would make the pattern easier to lay out.

I cut out a tiny rifle out of leather, and I'm gonna do a small mock-up, out of some 3oz I have....

It must look good as well as function, as it will have my name on it...

[camano ridge]

You might want to check out Alstohlmans Volume three case making. See attached picture there are two examples of rifle scabards withe scope. Also I have attatched a picture of a scbard for scoped rifle I made some time ago.

Edited June 30, 2013 by camano ridge

[reuben cogburn]

I actually have the book! But it is up at my homestead at the moment and I have no access.

However much of the problems have been eliminated... Now there will be two scabbards.. One for rifle.. one for shotgun...

I think I've got it figured out!

Thanks!!

[camano ridge]

Great we look forward to seeing pictures.

[Wanderinstar]

Two points spring to mind. Over here the police frown very heavilly on a firearm baing carried with bolt in position. It has to be carried seperate, as in a sheath on your belt. Secondly ,again over here ,he shotgun breaks in two to put the cartridges directly into the barrel. This is done by pushing a lever that runs along the top of the cun, to one side to open the gun. Autos, you just put the cartridges into the gun through a slot in the side.

Never heard of a shotgun with a bolt before. It must be something peculiar to the States.

[camano ridge]

The Benelli Riot gun is a semi automatic and looks similar to the picture below but does not sound like it has the pistol grip.

Edited July 8, 2013 by camano ridge

[Matt S]

Two points spring to mind. Over here the police frown very heavilly on a firearm baing carried with bolt in position. It has to be carried seperate, as in a sheath on your belt. Secondly ,again over here ,he shotgun breaks in two to put the cartridges directly into the barrel. This is done by pushing a lever that runs along the top of the cun, to one side to open the gun. Autos, you just put the cartridges into the gun through a slot in the side.

Never heard of a shotgun with a bolt before. It must be something peculiar to the States.

Automatic shotguns have a bolt. It's the bit that goes back and forth inside.

There is no requirement to carry the gun with bolt removed, just plod legislating from their own sense of entitlement.

[reuben cogburn]

To my friend across the pond. The bolt handle, or charging handle is the piece that sticks out of the bolt. The part you grab onto to pull the bolt back and load the chamber.

There are a lot of names for it depending on manufacturer, region where one lives etc.... However it isn't to be confused with the type of bolt handle on a bolt cation rifle. They perform the same function but look and operate differently.

I understand the carry/transport requirements where you live. We have area's here in the States, that are much the same. However here in Alaska many people carry both handguns and rifles/shotguns openly. It is not uncommon to see people walking downtown carrying firearms (myself included, at times).

This scabbard is intended to be lashed (strapped in this case), to the wing struts of the customers airplane. Since his cabin is basically accessible only by plane. It (the plane) is small, so he lashes some gear to the wing struts.

This particular shotgun is indeed a semi automatic, in riotgun configuration. A short 20" (or so) barrel with full magazine tube (7 rounds I think), with aperture rear sight.. basically rifle sights.. This shotgun is intended as bear protection as we have a fair number of large brown bear up here. Although it seems the black bear tend to be the more destructive to ones property.

So security is very important!

I have the pattern cut. Slightly over size.. I hope!!.... and dyed, as I'm using a heavy white nylon thread. I'm going to dress it up a litle it, but it is going to get pretty beat up pretty quick.. So sturdy is the main theme..

I will posts when I an...

Thanks much all and regards...