Sewing Fleece And Rigging Question

[stef73433]

I am in process of building a saddle similar to this.. my first time..http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=73352

2 questions i have that hadnt been previously replied to.

1) How/when do I sew the fleece to the skirt. If i have a top leather layer and a bottom, making up the skirts, i assume i tack those in place on tree, line up and sew together so they hold the tree in. But i am confused. If I want to make the fleece easily changable later on, how would i do that? If i first sew to bottom layer and then sew 2 leathers together after, you would have to disassemble the layers in order to resew.

But you would also have to disassemble if i sewed the 2 leathers and fleece all at once. What method or idea am I not thinking of to make this possible? Do i make 2 rows of stitches like this saddle? one to hold leather together and then another that stitches all 3 together?

2) do I attach skirts to tree, sew majority of it all together and then rivet the rigging plate in, once it is all pretty well assembled? I assume the rigging plate would rivet through both of these skirt layers?

Thanks so much for taking time to help me, It surely helped me alot so far!

[Ken Nelson]

I would suggest you get Stohlman"s saddle building books and read them a couple of times before you proceed. Another really good book is Harry Adam's Saddlemakers Shop Manual. HTH Ken

[steadybrook]

Rigging first, sew all together after gluing.

[stef73433]

I have Stohlman books, but I'm still confused. He builds his saddles with jockeys over the skirt, so in my mind the steps aren't the same? He's not making the pocket like I am trying to do.

[Goldshot Ron]

You need to repost your photo...I can't see your photo to see what you are talking about. If you are asking about using inskirt rigging and how to attach it to the bars without using rear jockeys there are some different steps not shown in Stohlman's books; and, I haven't seen any procedures in any other saddle making books.

Ron

[CWR]

Stef,

I think you have two options. First just glue everything until you are ready to put the fleece in or use two rows of stitching. Sew your skirts, rigging etc with one row then sew the fleece to everything in final assembly. A lot of saddlemakers use two rows of stitching as regular practice even on traditional style saddles. When it is time to reline the saddle only the last row of stitching will have to be removed.

CW

[oltoot]

If you are going to have strings.

1)Fit up the skirt and riggings complete,

2) then sew around all the leather rigging pieces ~ 3/4 in from edges.

3)Metal is placed but not rivited.

4)Any rivet that is going to be more than that 3/4 should be placed. If it has any sew around features do that now.

5)Put skirts back on, secured in their exact place.

6)Drill string holes through any top pieces, the tree and the skirt.

7)Take skirts off and punch out the hole with 1/2 " bag or oblong punch. Punch holes for lug strings if you are going to use them

8)Put strings (incl lugstrings) in. If you have a 3/4 or 1" french edger, use it to skive out a little place between the holes in the skirt and to edge the strings down a little where they go through the holes.

9) put the plugs in if you are going to use any

10)) glue up the sheepskin and then sew it completely around the outside edge. Only 1 row of stitching if you need to replace sheepskin

11) Set any remaing rivets, trim and finish the edges.

Edited July 15, 2013 by oltoot

[stef73433]

This is what I want to do

[CWR]

They used two rows of stitching. One for the skirt/rigging and one for the wool skin.

CW

[Goldshot Ron]

OK...that's a photo I posted earlier this year. This saddle had a rear jockey so the installment of the flank ring is different than a set of skirts without a rear jockey. With that said: first, determine the design of your skirts and block them. This is easier done prior to putting in your seat. After installing your seat, come back to your skirts and align your top piece. Cut your leather oversize on the outside edges of your bottom piece. Using rubber cement glue the bottom and top pieces together to insure fit. Fitting up includes rigging placement.

When satisfied with the skirts on the tree, remove the skirts from the tree (without pulling the cemented skirts apart) and compare them to each other to insure they're alike. Trim your top piece to match the bottom piece and attach your rigging plates and dees. Check your edges once more, sanding them if necessary to insure that they are cut at a 90 degrees. When satisfied, sew them together about 3/8ths of an inch from edge.

If your skirting leather is light weight, you can install filler pieces as you would regular skirts; however, this isn't necessary with heavy weight leather and does increase bulk.

These skirts are held into place on the bars with screws at the fork, at the cantle corner at the bars (covered by seat jockey), and rear rosettes or conchos.

The sheepskin is installed as usual and the sitch line is about 3/16ths from the edge.

I'm old, but not an old saddle maker. This method has worked for me on three saddles without any client complaints, knock on wood. Hope this helps,

Ron

[stef73433]

That is exactly what i needed Goldshot! Very nice step by step.

I am on the right track, hurray! thanks!

[stef73433]

OK...that's a photo I posted earlier this year. This saddle had a rear jockey so the installment of the flank ring is different than a set of skirts without a rear jockey. With that said: first, determine the design of your skirts and block them. This is easier done prior to putting in your seat. After installing your seat, come back to your skirts and align your top piece. Cut your leather oversize on the outside edges of your bottom piece. Using rubber cement glue the bottom and top pieces together to insure fit. Fitting up includes rigging placement.

When satisfied with the skirts on the tree, remove the skirts from the tree (without pulling the cemented skirts apart) and compare them to each other to insure they're alike. Trim your top piece to match the bottom piece and attach your rigging plates and dees. Check your edges once more, sanding them if necessary to insure that they are cut at a 90 degrees. When satisfied, sew them together about 3/8ths of an inch from edge.

If your skirting leather is light weight, you can install filler pieces as you would regular skirts; however, this isn't necessary with heavy weight leather and does increase bulk.

These skirts are held into place on the bars with screws at the fork, at the cantle corner at the bars (covered by seat jockey), and rear rosettes or conchos.

The sheepskin is installed as usual and the sitch line is about 3/16ths from the edge.

I'm old, but not an old saddle maker. This method has worked for me on three saddles without any client complaints, knock on wood. Hope this helps,

Ron

When you say sheepskin installed as usual, could you explain what "usual" means to you? (when in the process would you sew it and would you sew to just bottom layer, or to both layers of skirt? I dont like the look of the 2 rows of stitching, but i will do it if not a better way.

[Goldshot Ron]

My usual way of preparing my skirts is the same way as you'll find in the Stohlman books. The top of the skirts and the filler pieces are glued together, then the sheep skin is glued to the skirts, and one line of stitching holding everything together.

However, I feel when using inskirt rigged saddles the extra stitchline helps reinforce the skirts to make the saddle more secure and stronger. I've seen too many inskirt saddles where the stitching has rotted away or torn, and the only things holding the saddle to the horse are a few concho screws.

You can use a single stitchline if you want to prepare your skirts. There are no set rules. I tend to over engineer everything I make just to be safe.