Help With Black Oil Dye.

[BSA]

Hello all, my name is Brandon and I am still a newbie. I have a problem that I would like to have some help with. I was asked to make a black leather skeet pouch. The pouch came out great first of all. I might have done everything wrong though. I cut out all the pieces and punched the stitching holes. I laced it up with a double loop stitch and then I dyed it. The first coat made it look purple and you could still see some of the raw leather peaking through so I decided a second coat would be good. I read somewhere on here that you dye your project after you are done stitching, so thats what I did. Normally I only use brown dyes and have never had to wipe off any excess. I just put on the coat of Carr and Day and Martin Belvoir leather balsam. So this is what I did with the black oil dye. Unfortunately after applying it with the tan sponge it comes with, it was totally black. This worried me since the skeet pouch will be on a belt and rubbing off on this guys pants. So I got out some rags and started buffing the pouch................well I'm about 15 rags in and it is still just coming off. I don't know if it is because the balsam is releasing it or it just has that much extra dye on it. Please give me some advice. Should I just keep buffing and use a different sealer?

[thekid77]

Hi Brandon,

I don't know about oil dyes, but if you are planning on doing black on future projects, it might be worth it for you to look into vinegaroon...this will achieve a rich black with no chance of any blabk rub-off since it's not a dye, it's a chemical reaction with the leather that results in a black color...

Find Chuck Burrows on this forum...he has written many pages on vinegaroon...if you can't find it, here's a brief summary of what's involved:

Buy a jug of vinegar and some 4/0 steel wool...remove the oil from the steel wool by agitating the pads in acetone, then rinse off thoroughly...place the steel pads in the jug of vinegar and leave the cap cracked...let it sit in the sun for 3 4 wks....after, filter off the solution into a clean jar....to"dye" the leather black, immerse the leather in the vinegar solution...it will turn black....rinse off the leather, then neutralize the vinegar with a baking soda bath (tepid water in a ratio of 1/8 cup baking soda to 1/2 gallon of water)...swirl the leather in the baking soda solution for 10-15 seconds and no longer or you risk "burning" the leather...after, rinse off thoroughly with water....you will probably want to apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil to the leather while it's still wet and the leather pores are open (it's easier for the leather to absorb the oil when it's still wet)....let the leather dry thoroughly and apply your favorite finish....

Hope that helps!!! Credit to Chuck Burrows for the vinegaroon info

btw that was 3-4 wks, not 34 weeks

[Dwight]

I use Feibings professional oil dye, . . . and have generally good success.

I am in the process of evaluating Eco Flow Professional Waterstain, . . . black.

My co-conspirator in this project is the local Tandy manager. He promised me I would never have any rub off, . . . under any circumstances, . . . ever. So far, his word has been true, . . .

I'm getting ready to do the final test, . . . an "X-cross" shoulder holster using 1 inch wide shoulder straps. When I get it done, . . . I'll wear it a few days under my regular shirt, . . . with only a Tee shirt on.

If it don't bleed there, or rub off, . . . it'll be good.

You also need to seal that black dye you are using, . . . and while I am unfamiliar with the product you said you use, . . . i am familiar with Resolene, . . . and have had very little rub off problems with it. You apply it in a 50/50 mixture with water, . . . air brush / sponge / bristle brush, . . . you'll need to practice. But it WILL lock in the black dye.

By the way, . . . if you think that dye has rub off problems, . . . try USMC black. It makes a beautiful project, . . . but it is really tough to get all the pigment off.

May God bless,

Dwight

[BSA]

Thanks for the info thekid77. I will definitely check that out. Right now I am just looking to fix my problem and hopefully save a lot of time put into this project.

Dwight, thank you too! I actually used the Fiebings USMC oil dye for this project. I also have resolene but I am not sure what the result would be since I have already put the balsam wax on the pouch. Can I put resolene on top of the wax? Any thoughts?

Hi Brandon,

I don't know about oil dyes, but if you are planning on doing black on future projects, it might be worth it for you to look into vinegaroon...this will achieve a rich black with no chance of any blabk rub-off since it's not a dye, it's a chemical reaction with the leather that results in a black color...

Find Chuck Burrows on this forum...he has written many pages on vinegaroon...if you can't find it, here's a brief summary of what's involved:

Buy a jug of vinegar and some 4/0 steel wool...remove the oil from the steel wool by agitating the pads in acetone, then rinse off thoroughly...place the steel pads in the jug of vinegar and leave the cap cracked...let it sit in the sun for 3 4 wks....after, filter off the solution into a clean jar....to"dye" the leather black, immerse the leather in the vinegar solution...it will turn black....rinse off the leather, then neutralize the vinegar with a baking soda bath (tepid water in a ratio of 1/8 cup baking soda to 1/2 gallon of water)...swirl the leather in the baking soda solution for 10-15 seconds and no longer or you risk "burning" the leather...after, rinse off thoroughly with water....you will probably want to apply a light coat of neatsfoot oil to the leather while it's still wet and the leather pores are open (it's easier for the leather to absorb the oil when it's still wet)....let the leather dry thoroughly and apply your favorite finish....

Hope that helps!!! Credit to Chuck Burrows for the vinegaroon info

btw that was 3-4 wks, not 34 weeks

I use Feibings professional oil dye, . . . and have generally good success.

I am in the process of evaluating Eco Flow Professional Waterstain, . . . black.

My co-conspirator in this project is the local Tandy manager. He promised me I would never have any rub off, . . . under any circumstances, . . . ever. So far, his word has been true, . . .

I'm getting ready to do the final test, . . . an "X-cross" shoulder holster using 1 inch wide shoulder straps. When I get it done, . . . I'll wear it a few days under my regular shirt, . . . with only a Tee shirt on.

If it don't bleed there, or rub off, . . . it'll be good.

You also need to seal that black dye you are using, . . . and while I am unfamiliar with the product you said you use, . . . i am familiar with Resolene, . . . and have had very little rub off problems with it. You apply it in a 50/50 mixture with water, . . . air brush / sponge / bristle brush, . . . you'll need to practice. But it WILL lock in the black dye.

By the way, . . . if you think that dye has rub off problems, . . . try USMC black. It makes a beautiful project, . . . but it is really tough to get all the pigment off.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Dwight]

BSA, . . . I have never used the Balsam wax, . . . I'm one of these "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type people, . . . I found out how to use Resolene, and it has served all the purposes I needed for my holster, knife sheath, belt, and mag holder business.

It leaves something to be desired on others, . . .

BUT, . . . you have to look at where you are, . . . you have a project that is worthless as it is, . . . putting on the resolene might just cure the problem. I would first take a cloth (not a paper towel) and put some feibings thinner on it and rub the pouch, . . . not too hard, . . . just go over it and see if it will take off the wax.

Whether it does or doesn't, . . . mix up 50/50 resolene and water, . . . take a cheap pig bristle paint brush (it's the 50cent one at the hardware store probably), . . . and start brushing it on. It will lather up almost like a low grade shampoo, . . . and that is OK, . . . get that going all over the bag, . . . do it a second time, . . . but after the second application, . . . start brushing out the bubbles, . . . left / right / up / down / diagonal right / diagonal left / just keep brushing until there are no more bubbles. I usuall find a way to hold my piece by the inside so no fingerprints will show in the wet resolene.

Set it somewhere to dry, . . . give it 24 hours plus unless you are having this nice 95 degree dryer temp out on your porch, . . . then it is only about 4 hours.

Good luck, may God bless,

Dwight

[Murf]

Feibings pro oil is the best black i have ever used, I used Eco flo before that and it coats well but i have spent days rubbing that dye and it seems like i always get something off when i rub.

I actually made a belt recently and ran out of the Eco flo black half way across and finished the other half with Fiebings pro oil black, so ill have to make a thread about that somewhere down the road after i end up on some motorcycle rides where it rains alot.

Eco flo antiques on the other hand i have had great luck with.

I apply my dyes with a cheap kwill paint brush and my antiques with wool daubers. i used to rush alot and that was a downfall, give your dye some time to set. I then rub with 3oz squares of cotton duck, then I then rub with 3oz squares of cotton duck, then I then rub with 3oz squares of cotton duck, then... you get the point. When you find a method that works for you write down the steps you did it in and pin it to the wall above the place you dye your work. Rule #1 should always be "Don't spill the dye!".

As far as the order in which you dye your work in the construction process, do what works best for you. I have heard alot of people say that you dye after construction. Not every projects that same, a recent project i went in with that mentality and messed up some high dollar cloth on the inside of a wallet (i guess being careful has something to do with it too) and had to back up and redo the interior.

[BSA]

Feibings pro oil is the best black i have ever used, I used Eco flo before that and it coats well but i have spent days rubbing that dye and it seems like i always get something off when i rub.

I actually made a belt recently and ran out of the Eco flo black half way across and finished the other half with Fiebings pro oil black, so ill have to make a thread about that somewhere down the road after i end up on some motorcycle rides where it rains alot.

Eco flo antiques on the other hand i have had great luck with.

I apply my dyes with a cheap kwill paint brush and my antiques with wool daubers. i used to rush alot and that was a downfall, give your dye some time to set. I then rub with 3oz squares of cotton duck, then I then rub with 3oz squares of cotton duck, then I then rub with 3oz squares of cotton duck, then... you get the point. When you find a method that works for you write down the steps you did it in and pin it to the wall above the place you dye your work. Rule #1 should always be "Don't spill the dye!".

As far as the order in which you dye your work in the construction process, do what works best for you. I have heard alot of people say that you dye after construction. Not every projects that same, a recent project i went in with that mentality and messed up some high dollar cloth on the inside of a wallet (i guess being careful has something to do with it too) and had to back up and redo the interior.

Thanks for the advice Murf! Yeah patience is one thing I still sometimes forget to use. I have been letting it sit for about a week since I got busy with work so I think I will try to rub off some more and maybe seal it with the resolene mix. What have you used for sealing and finishing a project?

[Murf]

Im still pretty fresh to leather work, I used tan kote till about a month ago then i ordered some resolene. not really sure the 50/50 resolene reasoning, the belt i wear everywhere is 100% resolene, I apply it lightly with wool daubers. But since dwight's suggestion of brushing it on i think im gonna start doing that cause daubers cost money. Test a little spot on your project before going to town on it with the resolene.

[Studio-N]

FIrst off, you're not having a problem with the dye coming off, else you'd get bald spots on the leather. What you're dealing with is loose residue.

Buffing it before applying the finish is the first thing to remember. There is nothing wrong with the leather getting wet else you couldn't case the leather.

If you really have a problem with residue, it is simply ok to wash the leather. Just run it under water in the sink. It will get a lot of stuff out.

This obviously works on the individual pieces, but since you have it put together it's more problematic but it is still possible. Good luck.

[Murf]

After thought, Ive heard about "De-glazing" leather and i kinda forgot about it. Something with the veg tan process leaving a hardening agent that may cause the leather to not fully take the dye. When i did my first airbrush experiments the dye wiped right off. a few weeks later i made a hand tooled shop stool and i rubbed it with alcohol after i tooled it and it took alittle luster out of the leather. Then i rubbed aliitle neatsfoot on it and then airbrushed it and i had absolutely no problem with the dye coming off when i buffed it. I dont know if it was the alcohol or the neatsfoot but it worked great and im pretty sure i read the "De-glazing" bit on this forum somewhere in an old thread.