Dog Collars Stretching After Rough Use

[NicoleAlaine]

Hi all, I have been coming here for help for a while now but this is my first post. I know you will all be able to help.

I have a business selling leather dog collars, and I recently got some startling feedback from a customer. It seems that she bought one of my collars and after about a month of use it was very badly stretched, discolored and brittle. She apparently has a very active dog and it gets "heavy outdoor use" including being worn while swimming sometimes (not sure how often) and bathing. She did oil it several times to keep it conditioned, but still had very poor results with it. You can see from the before (not the exact collar) and after pics what it looked like. The black collar in the after pic is not one I made, only the undyed one.

Here is some info about the construction of the collar:

Leather is 6/7oz (I have since switched to 9/10oz) double shoulder from Tandy

1" wide with beveled edges

No dye used, finished with 3 coats of Angelus Acrylic Finisher

Good coating of Neetsfoot oil applied after finisher

I am basically wondering what I can do differently (other than increasing thickness of leather since I already have done that) to make my collars last better. I have been in business for 4 years and have never had feedback of this nature before, so I don't know if it was the use of the collar or the production that was the problem. I have noticed that my undyed collars often feel more pliable than the dyed ones and have been wondering if the dye itself perhaps has some preservative qualities. Should I be using a neutral leather dye on collars that are not to be colored?

Any info or tips you all could give would be appreciated.

[shtoink]

Someone else may be able to chime in with more details on the topic, but I believe that it might have to do with the cut of leather, tannery, and potentially a couple other things.

Cut of Leather:

The location on the animal the leather you made the collar from is important. The belly is one of the most notorious locations for leather that will stretch, whereas higher up along the back and across the butt have a tighter grain structure. Horse butt is on the verge of indestructible and not cheap. I don't have any links handy, but I think there was a couple posts a while back about what sections of the hide are best used for what kind of product.

Bottom line, avoid the belly for things that cannot benefit from stretching. Save that stuff for the tiny dogs.

Tannery:

Not all tanneries are created equal and neither is the leather they produce. Some of the tanneries that tan from cows here in the U.S. tend to have higher prices, but it becomes clear where that money went when the leather you receive is fantastic. This will take a bit of research, as it comes to what's available in your area or if you want to pay for shipping on sides of hides. There is plenty of information in here on what the reputable places to order online from are as well as details on what to be looking for in a side. Tandy typically caters to the beginner to intermediate and will usually have leather at prices to cater to that. I'm not saying that it's a good or bad thing, it just is what it is.

Other Stuff:

Lengthwise stitching a few thinner layers together might net you a stronger collar with the same thickness. It'll just take you a bit longer to sew up. Casing and compressing the leather with a roller press will make it much more dense, but at the cost of flexibility and potential comfort to the animal. There might be a happy medium in there and the only way to find it is to test it out.

Maybe it was the dog or the owner that was the issue. It's difficult to know what will happen to your collars out in the wild. Maybe you need to make a couple and test to destruction. Hook one end up to a cinder block, tie off the other, and drop it out a window. You can make before and after measurements to see what the difference in length is, if it survives, and then maybe repeat for different locations on the hide to see what areas will work for your needs. This way you can designate the "Roughness Level" that the collar can survive, separate into known grades based on hide location, and sell accordingly. You get to use the whole side, happy customers, and your dogs can have a comfy collar that is graded for their level of destructiveness. Win, Win.

I hope this helps, as some of this sort of evolved as I was typing.

[Spence]

IMHO, moving up to 9/10 oz leather is the way to go.

The rest, if not the majority, of the problem is owner-related, I'm sure. I would question the owner's claim about the frequent conditioning. Nothing that I know of makes leather "waterproof". Water resistant, yes. It is up to the owner to treat the collar after each swim session. Not necessary after a rainstorm. If the dog is swimming on a regular basis, then I'd recommend they switch to a nylon collar for that evolution and keep the leather collar for "dress up."

The fact that it stretched (the dog needs some serious training...lol) and then became brittle suggests that the collar got wet and was allowed to dry on the dog. If it was taken off and oiled, it should not have become brittle.

With my dog collars, I oil first, dye, oil again, finish (resolene) and wax (Montana Pitch Blend.)

Typically, I make a 3" wide "agitation" collar with one layer of 9/10 oz veg-tanned leather. This collar is usually used in protection training. I pad it for the dog's comfort because the dog is lunging. The dogs usually weigh between 80-150 lbs (depending on the breed). I've used this type of collar on my own dogs and made them for others and so far, no complaints. I have one that I have used on multiple dogs for about 10 years and it's still in good shape.

If it were me, I would refund the owner's money and tell them to shop elsewhere. Just don't send them to me. lol G'luck

[TomG]

You mentioned "bathing"... Dog shampoo's can dry out the leather. Also, wet leather stretches.... some more than others, but most veg-tan does, from my experience.

And that one collar looks like it has had some serious abuse... If it's undyed, why does it look like dye ran out of it?

You can not be responsible for what a customer does once they receive a collar. But like shtoink said, you may have used some crappy leather (Tandy does fall short on the leather quality these days), and offering to remake it might be good for PR.

On my collars, I resist letters, if needed, dye (leather does get stiff), Leather Balm with Atom Wax which softens it), apply antiques for highlighting and wipe off, seal with Saddle Lac or resolene.

Finally, I apply a light coat of mink oil paste to the back, which make it pretty limber.

Might not be the perfect method, but it's worked for me for a long time...

[lightingale]

The above advice is excellent.

I make and sell veg tan collars almost exclusively, and I've been down this road too. Just this week, I made and sent out a replacement collar for one that became stretched and warped after the dog swam a lot (despite my warnings). The dog was clearly a puller, because the D ring popped out, (which is why I replaced the whole thing for free). Always check your D rings to assure they're welded shut!

Other suggestions:

1. With every collar you send out, include a conspicuous pamphlet on basic leather care. Stress that the leather is not waterproof, and should not be worn when swimming or bathing.

2. Offer to use a different kind of leather for dogs likely to go swimming. Anything oil tanned, like latigo.

3. Hand-sew a border on your collars. I have found that even abused collars that had a lining hand-sewn on them did not stretch.

Hope this helps

[Northmount]

I don't make collars, so take this as a "maybe it might help idea".

What about making your lined collars with a layer of a type of webbing (nylon, fiberglass, etc.) sandwiched between the layers? As lightingale mentions, sewing helps to reduce or eliminate stretching. This would go further, and maybe allow you to continue using veg tanned leather for situations where the collar is allowed to get wet and be abused.

An instruction sheet / warranty with disclaimers is a good idea too.

Tom

[The Dawg Club]

It's definitely from the water, then getting stretched on the walk home. Other option to 9/10oz if he's to tuff for 6oz. Sew 2-6oz together. What kind of dog is it or size?

[WyomingSlick]

I don't make collars, so take this as a "maybe it might help idea".

What about making your lined collars with a layer of a type of webbing (nylon, fiberglass, etc.) sandwiched between the layers? As lightingale mentions, sewing helps to reduce or eliminate stretching. This would go further, and maybe allow you to continue using veg tanned leather for situations where the collar is allowed to get wet and be abused.

An instruction sheet / warranty with disclaimers is a good idea too.

Tom

Cliff Ketchum, one of the early noted leather designers in Hollywood made a lot of leather work for use in stunts and such in the western movies back in the 1950-1960's era. He would use layer(s) of fiberglass strapping tape sewn between leather layers to strengthen his work. It adds very little in thickness, but a lot in strength and stability. Strong enough for a horse should be strong enough for the largest of dogs.

[Cyberthrasher]

2. Offer to use a different kind of leather for dogs likely to go swimming. Anything oil tanned, like latigo.

I'm assuming that the picture of the offending collar was provided to Nicole to show her that "I have other leather collars that don't do that!", and this is likely what they had for that black collar - black latigo or something. I'm pretty sure they're used to having a water resistant leather and assumed they could just treat Veg tan the same way. I'd say 6/7 is probably a little light for a puller, but it shouldn't do that unless it was belly or was subjected to water followed by immediate stretching. I have a cheap horrible piece of 7/8 I used for my dogs emergency collar. He pulls like crazy and it's held up perfect.

[NicoleAlaine]

Thanks so much for all the input everyone! I have been really happy after the switch to 9/10, and I am hoping to get a machine at some point so that I can do double layers for tougher collars but I simply don't have the time for hand stitching right now (running a business, chasing a toddler, expecting a second baby soon).

I do love the idea of sending out a small info sheet with every collar, and will probably do that. Even with the info on my site I doubt a lot of people go looking for it.

I have also been planning on adding some oil tanned collars as soon as I have the chance, but had not thought to suggest those for rough use. I will definitely do that now.

[shtoink]

I have been looking closer at the image of the two collars together and something kept bugging me about the darker one. The buckle looked oddly familiar, but it just dawned on me why.

It's a from a brand called Circle T and I have the same collar for my dog. He a big puller and has gotten his collar wet. I'd like to call BS on using the darker collar as a comparison for "not stretching" under similar conditions, because my dog stretched his out. It stretched out enough that I had to use my punch to put a new hole in it so it'd stay on him.

I know this doesn't really help with the whole "how to prevent stretching" thing, but I felt it might give you a bit of reassurance that you are on the right track and that you just got stuck with a crappy end-user as one of your clients. Too bad there isn't screen process to help prevent unwanted, accidental exposure to jerks.

How I wish for such a thing... A guy can dream, can't he.

[NicoleAlaine]

I have been looking closer at the image of the two collars together and something kept bugging me about the darker one. The buckle looked oddly familiar, but it just dawned on me why.

It's a from a brand called Circle T and I have the same collar for my dog. He a big puller and has gotten his collar wet. I'd like to call BS on using the darker collar as a comparison for "not stretching" under similar conditions, because my dog stretched his out. It stretched out enough that I had to use my punch to put a new hole in it so it'd stay on him.

That's really funny, I hadn't noticed the brand on it. Now that I look closer on it, the dark collar actually does look stretched thinner on the bulk of the collar below the stitching. Good to know I didn't totally drop the ball! Oh well, I refunded her $ for good PR and let it go at that. Glad it prompted me to do the research though, it's nice to know that veg tan is just like that.

[lightingale]

Cliff Ketchum, one of the early noted leather designers in Hollywood made a lot of leather work for use in stunts and such in the western movies back in the 1950-1960's era. He would use layer(s) of fiberglass strapping tape sewn between leather layers to strengthen his work. It adds very little in thickness, but a lot in strength and stability. Strong enough for a horse should be strong enough for the largest of dogs.

This is brilliant, I'm going to pick up some fibreglass tape next time I go to the hardware store to try this out. The only downside is that it would have to be sandwiched between two layers that are sewn together, which already reduces the likelihood of stretching.

[NicoleAlaine]

This is brilliant, I'm going to pick up some fibreglass tape next time I go to the hardware store to try this out. The only downside is that it would have to be sandwiched between two layers that are sewn together, which already reduces the likelihood of stretching.

You could probably use the fiberglass to make a lined collar with something like 2/3 (not sure what thickness you would usually use since I have not done lined collars) on the back and a tooled front that would be less bulky than a normal lined collar.

Lightingale, I wanted to tell you also that I have been a fan of your collars for a long time. They are really beautiful! Your artistic work is really an inspiration to me!

[Northmount]

Just in case you haven't thought about it, keep the edge of the fibreglass far enough back from the edge of collar so you won't run into trouble burnishing the edges.

Tom

[alyshae]

Great advice from all, especially the fiberglass tape! I was also wondering about the clients definition of "oiling". When I first got into leather and decided to research it, I found several people advising to soak new bridles in oil overnight. Serious over-oiling could have produced the stretch and the appearance of dye running out of an undyed collar.

[Geneva]

You have learned not to make your dog collars from latigo. It has a very bad habit of stretching. I make a 1" wide collar out of English bridle and I use natural tanned vegetable leather, harness leather too. The only time I oil the natural tan is to change the color to a medium brown. I never oil my collars. Another great material is harness leather. The weight of all my collars is 10/12 ounce material. This will hold a dog weighing around 40 pounds.

If you do decide to put reinforcement in the collar you will need for sure a good walking foot machine capable of 1/2" sewing.

I use 3/8th inch tubular rivets to lock the buckle and d-ring in place with a belt keeper also. I edge every thing with a #1 edging tool. As far as the finish goes I don't put any finish on the material. Once in a while I will finish with Resolene. Keep in mind that once you apply Resolene the material is sealed nothing will penetrate Resolene other than Acetone to remove the Resolene and return to the original finish of the material.

You should make a practice of trying to stretch your collar before you make it. If you can stretch it (more than 1/4") a dog will wreck it and your reputation.

I hope my 2 cents helped. Best of luck to your new and improved dog collar.

[wlg190861]

In every kind of work from construction to leatherwork, lamination is key for strength