Singer 111G156 - Timing Belt Replacement

[Rayban]

I was told the G means it was made in Great Britain.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Rayban

[cdthayer]

I was told the G means it was made in Great Britain.

I'm beginning to wonder if the G has anything to do at all with Germany on the industrial machines.

The trailing G on model numbers of domestic machines (216G, 431G, etc) indicates German-made machines, but the G and W in the middle of industrial machine model numbers may have more to do with model upgrades than where they were manufactured, don't they? The serial numbers indicate where they were made (W - Connecticut, PB - Karlsruhe), correct?

CD in Oklahoma

[pcox]

I have a 211G155 and many of the casting have made in West Germany cast in to them. the serial number is PC66649. Seems to be a lot of confusion about the identtification system

[cdthayer]

Seems to me in that thread CD I mentioned the adjustment of the tension release and a picture, perhaps not. I'll be interested to see your progress. And yes, it does matter which screws sit where when you time your top and bottom shafts. That info I believe is in another rather lengthy thread about a 111. Enjoy!

Regards, Eric

Thanks again for your great threads Eric! They help me a lot.

I will get some photos of my presser bar and lift bracket later this morning. My machine doesn't have the part number 264527 (Tension Disc Slide) on it, and I don't see it listed anywhere in the parts list for the 111G156 machine.

On the timing, I found the other thread, Singer 111W155 Timing/thread Issues, but I haven't read all of the way through it yet. My machine has a safety clutch on it, so the timing marks are on the shaft and a timing plate. I think I put the wrong set screw in the groove, so I'll change it and re-time. Depending on how the set screw holes are bored in the shaft collar, I could see how the timing could be off a half of a tooth or more if the correct set screw was not in the groove.

CD in Oklahoma

[cdthayer]

I see... Then it is probably the Tension "Dics Release Lever Slide" (what a word) that is worn.

It pushes the pin against the Tension Disc assembly when you lift the lever.

BTW - I have a parts list for the 111G156 but it has no pictures and I have a parts list for the 111W155 with pictures. If you are interested I can post them here or send them by Email.

Thanks for the photos and attachments. Is the machine photo (IMG_2930.JPG) taken of a 155 or a 156? As I mentioned in my previous post, my 111G156 machine doesn't have that part in it, and I don't see it listed in the 111G156 Parts List.

CD in Oklahoma

Edited October 5, 2013 by cdthayer

[Constabulary]

Picture is of my 111G156, its the only Singer I have.

I also noticed that part 264527 Tension Disc Slide is not mentioned in the 111G156 parts list. But I think this little parts would solve the problem that your pin is not coming out of the housing. I have no other explanation.

I just took a close look at one of the pictures - your machine seem to have 2 washers (or what is it) instead of the Tension Disc Slide.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Constabulary

[cdthayer]

Picture is of my 111G156, its the only Singer I have.

...- your machine seem to have 2 washers (or what is it) instead of the Tension Disc Slide.

What looks like 2 washers is three wraps of the coil spring on the rear presser bar. The light reflecting off of the shinny bar makes the spring wraps look like the edge of washers. I'm wondering what else besides the Tension Disc Slide could be missing, even though it's not listed in the Parts List. There's got to be something coming up below the Lifting Bracket to push the pin in. The Lifting Bracket is hollow to slide up past the pin without pushing it in.

I've been resetting my shaft collar and Safety Clutch. I think I have the correct set screw in the groove now. I thought it had really changed the needle timing, until I noticed that the Safety Clutch was tripped. I must have done that yesterday while I was messing with it. At least I know my Safety Clutch works now.

When I went to set my hook timing, the set screws in the Hook Driving Pinion Gear were turned in backwards from where they should have been. I took them out one at a time and didn't see a flat spot under either of them, so I figured that the gear was set wrong. I needed to clean some rust out of the hook and bobbin case anyway, so I went ahead and pulled the Hook Shaft. There's a definite groove in the shaft for one of the set screws that I would have seen, so the timing was way out of whack on this machine. I just hope they didn't reset all of the other timing when they (whoever it was) were jacking around with things. I didn't check the Upper Belt Pulley when I had the belt off. Hopefully, they didn't reset that.

I found a sheet metal screw in place of one of the Feed Dog screws, so now I've got to decide if I want to replace the Feed Bar or not. It was in tight, so I may go with it for now, or at least until I see if I can get the thing to sew before I drop that $35. Poor men have poor ways, so I've got to cut them some slack for trying to make do with what they could, but I wonder if they ever got any sewing done with the thing?

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

ouch - the feet look as if someone welted or soldered them.

I think the former owner really messed with the machine. Probably because he had no manual for it. I always wonder where all the original manuals are gone? There are thousands of machines around but where are all the manuals that came with the machines? I always download manuals when I find them. I have about 100 manuals (PDF´s) for machines I have never owned - you never know.

[cdthayer]

ouch - the feet look as if someone welted or soldered them.....

Like I say, poor men have poor ways. Yes, both of these feet have been braised back together. Here's another look at them. They're going into my "unusual collectables" box.

I wish that I had more history information about this machine. I know that it was with the belongings of a 47-year upholstery shop that closed in 2008. It wasn't in use as the primary machine when I was in the shop in 2006. He was using a Pfaff at that time, and had been for quite a long time from what I understood. I was just getting acquainted with sewing machines then, so I don't know if the Singer that I saw setting unused in the shop was this one or not, but I think it probably was. After seeing how the timing was so out of whack on it, I can see why it was setting unused....

CD in Oklahoma

[cdthayer]

I also noticed that part 264527 Tension Disc Slide is not mentioned in the 111G156 parts list.

The part is listed in the 111G156 Parts List as #240500 Tension Release Slide, that's where we missed it. As far as I can tell, it's basically the same part, and I have one coming for my machine.

I'm not sure why mine is missing, but the knee-lift linkage is missing too, so maybe they had a problem with the lift and the Slide was damaged or got left out during reassembly.

Thanks for your photo. I would have been a long time figuring out what was missing.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

You are welcome! Maybe next time you can help me with something!

[Rayban]

Mine had some band-aids and home made parts when I got it too....I had Bob at Toledo Industrial give it the once over and it's running great now.

[cdthayer]

....Maybe next time you can help me with something!

I see that you're interested in US WWII - Vietnam militaria, sewing + repairing military canvas + leather items. Have you studied WWII Rigger Shops? Do you do any of the military style sewing?

There's a group setting up a Rigger Shop here locally in a restored WWII hanger at our airport that used to be an Army Air Field. They do WWII style static line parachute jumps at events throughout the United States and Europe. Their program is about as authentic WWII as you can get. They bail out of a restored C47 named "Boogie Baby", and when they're headed out, they fly it low over town (and my house) to let everyone know when there's going to be a jump.

Check them out at: WWII Airborne Demonstration Team

CD in Oklahoma

[cdthayer]

Mine had some band-aids and home made parts when I got it too....I had Bob at Toledo Industrial give it the once over and it's running great now.

Thanks Rayban. I've heard that Bob is pretty good. I tried contacting him a few years ago about a darning foot for a Singer 96-40, but I never heard back from anyone. I ended up buying one from another Vendor. My distributor didn't stock them so I had to go hunting one.

CD in Oklahoma

[cdthayer]

My Tension Release Slide Part #240500 arrived yesterday, and I put it in this morning. What a piece of crap. I wish I could find well-made parts for these old machines. I could tell by looking at it that it wasn't going to fit without major modifications. It may give me problems when I sew something thick, because the guide pin was bent wrong and you can't re-bend a 90-degree piece of metal without breaking it, so I just broke it off. I'll have tension release when I raise the feet by hand or with the knee lift, but I may also get tension release when I sew something thick. I don't think that it will operate independently from the lift bracket, but it might. I'll watch for an original Singer part from a donor machine and change it out if I find one.

I got another batch of replacement parts in today for my tension assembly, so if I can get them on in the morning, I'll try to get the presser feet and upper tension adjusted.

CD in Oklahoma

[gottaknow]

One of my biggest frustrations as a head mechanic in a factory is buying replacement parts. When I started in 1980, you could call Singer direct and get original parts. They always were made to spec of the same material. You could swap a part, adjust, and be on to the next one. I don't just order 1 of anything. I will normally order 3x the quantity I need in order to get one I can use. I return things that aren't to spec. My vendors take care of me because of the volume we buy, but it's just made extra work. I still use a lot of 50's and 60's era Singers because there's a lot of jobs that don't require all the options of the newer machines. I have Singer 211's that have the original hooks in them and can still perform 40 hours a week at high speed. Last year, I purchased a new Chinese Juki double needle lockstitch. I estimate it's useful life at 5-6 years before the inferior materials in the bushings and bearing carriers are wasted.

All that to say I feel your pain CD. I don't think I'll ever get used to the poor quality. Fortunate for the leatherworkers, the machines run at a much slower speed and should last a lot longer.

Regards, Eric

[Constabulary]

I still use a lot of 50's and 60's era Singers because there's a lot of jobs that don't require all the options of the newer machines.

Thats exactly my thought!

All these fancy things on new machines cost a lot of money when they are broke!

F.I. - I love the belt driven bobbin winders that sit next to the machine. Guess what it cost to replace an built in bobbin winder (not sure if that can happen but you never know). An external winder cost about $15-$20 - if it will break at all.

Its the same with modern cars. There is so much electronic junk inside the cars. Light sensors, rain sensors... What a bullshxt!

[cdthayer]

Well, I'm back to square one on my Singer 111G156. The bad Tension Release Slide #240500 that I bought and tried to make work, didn't, and then it broke. The tab that goes up to push in the tension release pin broke off. I guess I'll shelve this machine until I can find a good part.

Does anyone know what the difference is between the 111G156 Tension Release Slide #240500 and the 111W155 Tension Disc Slide #264527, or is there any difference other than the part number?

CD in Oklahoma

Edited November 5, 2013 by cdthayer

[Constabulary]

Not sure but maybe they have sent you a wrong part. It is probably for a clone, maybe for a consew.

I just checked Ebay and found one that looks as if it could fit, it seems not to have the "wide tongue"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGER-111W-TENSION-RELEASE-SLIDE-PART-240500-/120926491838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c27c7d4be

I have bought all parts for my 111D156 from sharpsewing on Ebay and had no problems. But I have not tried the release slide but maybe you can contact them and send them a picture through the ebay system. The guy who always answered friendly was Sam.

[cdthayer]

That's where I got mine, and it had the same photo for the one that I bought, but you can see the difference on the one that I got.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

didn´t know - so I have no further idea! I don´t know how mine looks (I will leave it in there until it´s broke) but can´t you carefully grind it down?

[cdthayer]

...can't you carefully grind it down?

That's what I did, but the part had other issues. The entire thing was out of spec. The ring that slides on the presser bar was out of position causing the two tabs to not fit into their positions properly, and the pilot pin on it that has to slide in the hole in the Presser Bar Lifting Bracket to keep the slide setting straight on the bar would not align with the hole when both parts were on the bar. Even by grinding down the wide tab that depresses the tension release, the rest of the design flaws wouldn't allow the part to function.

By the time that I discovered all of this, I had already modified the wide tab to fit into the bracket groove, so I'm stuck with it. It's probably one of those parts that has been sent back umpteen times (as Eric mentioned that he has to do), and it finally found a home in my scrap box. It's really aggravating. Not only am I out the cost of the part and the time it took me to try to make the part work, but my machine is still dead in the water until I can find a part that is correct.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

not sure how important the ring is. I think the part is held in place good enough by the just the upright pin and the large screw. So why not cut the ring and grind down the tongue.

Not sure if it works, its just another idea. Maybe you can try this with the broken part - somehow.

[cdthayer]

Yesterday, I received another part #240500, Tension Release Slide, from another source and installed it in my Singer 111G156 this morning. I'm thankful (Thanksgiving Day) that it is the correct part, and I must say that it's really nice to have good parts to work with. I test-sewed with it by hand-wheeling to begin getting things adjusted before putting it in a power stand. I've got to decide on a stand and get it set up later.

I'm also thankful to you guys that have helped me with this basket-case machine that was so out of whack. I went back to some of Eric';s posts to fine-tune some things, and I really appreciate him taking the time to be so informative.

I at least have it sewing now, and hope to dial it in and make it a good working machine soon. Thanks again.

CD in Oklahoma

[gottaknow]

That's great CD. I'm glad it's working out. I'm glad to help whenever I can.

Regards, Eric