Questions About Lined Belts

[deloid]

Now that we got our Cobra 4 from Steve (works great!), I would like to start adding a sales option of lined belts. We do hand sew but belts would have been too time consuming for the price we can charge in our market.

Is the lining usually the same thickness as the tooled front?

Is the lining glued then sewn and if so is it glued with a slight curvature?

If no glue is it sewn with a slight curve so the stitches aren't stressed when placed around the waist?

Is the lining cut to width after sewing?

Any links to references such as tutorials or videos (free or not) would be appreciated.

[Greystone]

I'm interested TOO!!! db

[Dwight]

My belts are generally .160 to .230 in thickness, . . . sometimes both layers are the same thickness, . . . sometimes not, . . . no hard and fast rule there due to the variations of leather thickness from all suppliers.

I try to make the longer ones with the thicker overall, . . . makes a longer lasting product IMHO.

I cut one piece, . . . turn and cut the other piece right then and there, . . . knowing both are EXACTLY the same width.

No curves.

Cut, . . . glue, . . . sand, . . . bevel, . . . sew / dye (for dark thread), . . . dye / sew (for white thread), . . . finish.

May God bless,

Dwight

[paprhangr]

What is the trick sewing around the point / belt end, and keeping the stitches

Consistent and parallel?

[mlapaglia]

What is the trick sewing around the point / belt end, and keeping the stitches

Consistent and parallel?

Make sure to rotate your awl so that the hole is always the correct angle for the spot on the belt you are pushing through.. And as always Practice a lot.

Edited August 24, 2013 by mlapaglia

[undeberg]

Most sewing machines will come with a roller guide that you can use to keep stitches consistent.

On my belts, leather weight also dictates lining leather thickness, it's an aesthetic thing.

Lining leather can be shorter, this does relax the leather in the worn position, it doesn't end up stretching the outside leather and compressing the lining leather as much. Not crucial, but if you're making high end belts, it's not a bad way to do it. If I do this, the lining leather is usually 1/4 to 1/2 inch shorter in length.

When stitching the leather, I take my table off so the belt drapes in a curved position over the throat of the machine. I don't have any problems with stretched stitches when i do it this way.

In all cases, my lining leather is oversized when I glue it down, (if I'm making the lining leather shorter I make two end marks on the strip I'm using to show me where the ends will be positioned.) I then trim, sand, stitch, edge, polish. I never dye thread, I think it makes it weaker, and it always ends up a strange color. If I dye anything, it's usually done prior to gluing the lining leather on, Most of my lining leather is in a light leather to contrast the darker outside leather or a dark leather to contrast the light outside leather. Rarely, do I use the same color to line.

But it's all personal preference.

[deloid]

You folks are awesome. This is more information than I hoped for. Since we are going into higher production my wife and I are trying to get to know our Cobra 4 better.

There was a question above about sewing the ends-

On our cuffs and bracelets we are slowly learning that you can space the stitch really well if you learn not to push the needle while pivoting the leather. We still get skipped stitches. I think it's part technique and part machine timing. Steve is helping us with the timing, we are practicing how to take the turn well.

[Trevor]

Hi there Deloid.

Here is my two cents worth. Only ever turn your work (that is when its under the foot of the machine) when the stitch has been formed not before. That is, when the needle is about one third of the way up its stroke from the bottom. so... if you stitch then turn, stitch then turn, you will get every stitch to lock to the bottom thread and not miss any.

ie the stitch is formed on the up-stroke of the needle, when the thread stays stationary in the groove (of the needle)and the movement of the needle upwards causes a small loop to form, and the hook (with the other bobbin thread aboard) spins around at that precise moment, and catches the loop and forms the stich. All in a split second. That's why the timing must be spot on to accurately form a stitch. If the timing is out you will get the hook catching partially and your sewing will be disrupted and you will even get missed stitches.

Setting the timing yourself can be done but its quite difficult. Knowing the settings is one thing but understanding them is another. Sometimes its easier to get a sewing mechanic to set up the machine for you and after that don't touch it. There are on most good machines many different settings and screws to adjust every part of the timing. un-doing any of these in the wrong order may put out some other settings and bugger up the whole thing. I cannot express loud enough that the timing on a machine is everything. If its not done right and accurate then your machine will sew like a dog. Nothing you do will make it sew no matter what you do.

Hope this helps

Cheers leatherman

"way down under"

Edited August 24, 2013 by Trevor

[Trevor]

Now my 2 cents worth on lining belts.

you can line one or several belts together and save your leather. By this I mean that laying 3 or 4 strips of finished belts together on a single piece of leather, then gluing the whole lot at once then when you cut them to separate you waste very little. I mostly use chrome leather which is cheaper and easier to use than making a belt out of two pieces of veg leather unless the customer wishes of course. without splitting you could end up with a belt that is 7 to 10mm in thickness which is very thick indeed.

Once glued and pressed down firmly and allowed to dry, I trim with a knife or sharp leather scissors. then I get the edge and grind (or sand) in the direction so that the chrome is on the top and the veg is below which if done correctly will kind of cut the edge and trim it beautifully all around the belt. This may take some practice, Make sure you have a dust collector of some description or your workshop will fill with leather dust. Then turn the belt over and trim the veg edge with an edge groove tool. Or you can grind or sand that side as well. this will give your belts a very professional edge which can be dip dyed or edge dyed easily. Sanding leather is a way of getting a smooth edge to any veg leather items that you make. Sew the finished belt when its all dyed up and maybe apply one more coat of gloss or sealer to the finished belt stitching and all. Attach the buckle and keeper, maker stamp and size then its ready to sell.

Good luck

Cheers Leatherman

"Way down under"

[paprhangr]

"Stitch and Turn when the needle is 1/3 way up" ? is the needle point still in the leather?

[Red Cent]

Yes. When the needle is on the way up, stop when a 1/4" of needle is in the leather, raise the presser foot, turn, lower foot, and sew.

[Red Cent]

Belts for the concealed carry crowd needs to be pretty strong. 8-9 outer and 4-5 liner. I do not double up on the billet end nor the chape and I skive generously on the buckle fold.

[Trevor]

Yes. The needle is still well buried into the leather when you are about a third of the way upwards. Never turn your work until that time. and remember always turn using the needle as a pivot point. So don't pull the needle all the way up then decide to turn the work.Cheers

[Red Cent]

The Cobra 4 videos say you need to come up and leave a 1/4" or more of the needle in the leather so the stitch will be finished.

[deloid]

Just an update. I decided to glue with a curved shape after a smaller trial (minibelt) glued flat had some buckling on the inner leather. It's tooled and stained and ready for sewing now. The only problem is that the slightly thinner liner stains erratically where there was a higher concentration of contact cement. I think I need to thin the cement out more but other ideas are welcome. I'll post a pic after sewing-Dean

[Dwight]

There are two schools on dye and the liner, . . . the A school dyes the whole belt (I'm there, . . . a "dip" dyer guy), . . . and the B school who leaves the liner natural.

I personally like both ways, . . . but my process is easier for me & quicker, . . . otherwise, I too would be a B school guy.

May God bless,

Dwight

[ikewineb]

So, I've been struggling a little with the concept of the liner. I get the liner should be shorter to prevent buckling, but how do you get your stitching hole to line up if you are doing it by hand. I normally sew a saddle stitch and use a diamond chisel awl (I know, I know...I'm working on learning the awl). How do you get the holes to line up?

[Dwight]

The concept that the liner needs to be shorter is a false concept.

I cut my liner by using my outside, finish side, as the exact pattern.

All liners need to be glued or contact cemented to the other piece of the belt. THEN, . . . you start punching holes or stitching.

I personally (as well as others on these forums) prefer weldwood contact cement, . . . the stuff sold in lumber yards for counter tops.

Works like a champ, . . . but there is a little learning curve. Put on an EVEN coat, . . . let it DRY to the touch of your hand. Not sticky, . . . no gummy, . . . dry.

Lay the one piece onto the other, . . . knowing it is a one shot deal. Where you drop it, . . . it stays.

Then roll the whole thing with a rolling pin, . . . seam roller, . . . etc. It's now one piece.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Red Cent]

What Dwight said.