Questions About Design And Balance...

[CAVE]

I am new to this and just finished my first for this ruger sr22. I am very happy with the results for a first, but have some questions. I get a little "bounce" from the gun on the belt if I walk fast or jog. I attribute this to the high carry (conceal style) holster. I assume that if I raise my belt slots on the holster body, dropping the gun a little on the belt, this will balance out the weight a little. Do you all have some advice about fitting holster style and balance to gun weight and shape? I realize there are probably an infinite number of combos. I'm just looking for some things to try. Can I get a rock solid hold/balance on the gun but keep the high carry of the conceal style pancake? This gun is pretty light, but I'm going to start one for my taurus pt24/7 next and want to make some improvements to make it ride just right.

Criticism encouraged beyond just the style or cut. I still haven't applied oil or finish, just dye. I'm working on some different burnishing methods too and then dye the edges again.

Edited November 10, 2013 by CAVE

[camano ridge]

First off I believe that the foundation for a good carry system is the belt. If you don't have a good belt that fits the holster well you will not have a good carry system. That can lead to some of the problems you described regardless of how good the holster is. The belt should be of heavy leather not belly. I do most of my belts double thickness equaling close to a quarte inch total thickness. I cut my belts from backs. Over all the design of you holster does not look to bad. Personal preference I would have brought the front of the holster up just a little and put a down ward curve or arc toward the trigger guard. The overall appearance of the holster would be greatly improved by burnishing your edges and the belt slots.

Edited November 10, 2013 by camano ridge

[CAVE]

  On 11/10/2013 at 9:41 PM, camano ridge said:

Personal preference I would have brought the front of the holster up just a little and put a down ward curve or arc toward the trigger guard.

Is this an aesthetic change or a functional change? I would love to see a picture or photoshop version of your change. I don't quite understand the downward arc idea. Concave or convex?

Thank you for the comments.

This holster's belt loops were designed around a duty belt that I have. It seems to be sturdy, but maybe I will look into some other types. I really don't know the difference between a good one and a poor one.

Are there things I can do to the style to increase balance and stability other than a heavier belt?

I am working on burnishing still. I hope it will clean up my edges some. I had a hard time with my utility knife cutting the belt slots. I have limited tools, but was considering chucking up a dowel in the drill press for the belt slots..?

Edited November 10, 2013 by CAVE

[camano ridge]

Cave, here is a picture more or less depicting what I ma talking about. It is primarily form and not so much function although I believe it adds a little bit more stability. Again it is just my persaonal preferenc I am sharing with you not telling you it is the way you have to do it.

[Red Cent]

I agree with a strong belt. I make mine with a 8-9 outer and a 4-5 liner. If your holster twists the belt away from the body it will waggle back and forth and slap the body. And the belt should fit the slots. A secure handgun drawn quickly should not move the holster up and down.

[Dwight]

A strong belt is the first thing I would look at, . . . mine are 1 7/16 wide, . . . and anywhere between .180 and .250 thick, . . . depending on several factors I take into account in the belt process.

Secondly though, . . . will be a serious critique of the holster design. Quite frankly, I would consider it a bad, poorly thought out design.

Your holster should come up (on the top of the slide) to the front of the rear sight at least. For a VERY secure holster, . . . cover the rear sight also.

It should also come up almost to the grip, . . . covering the trigger guard. I realize that you are trying to stay clear of the mag release, . . . and that can be handily done with some interior work.

Personally, . . . I would not carry a pistol in a holster of that design. The center of gravity for the weapon is way too high, . . . it WILL flop back and forth, . . . and it will come out, . . . and if Murphy gets in there, it will come out when you least need it to do that.

Making that style for a full size all steel weapon would be in my opinion, and exercise in futility.

And the reason I feel confident in my opinion, . . . I envisioned a similar style holster some years back, . . . and after some wasted leather and effort, . . . I said to heck with it, . . . went back to what works.

May God bless,

Dwight

[CAVE]

  On 11/11/2013 at 2:18 AM, Dwight said:

Making that style for a full size all steel weapon would be in my opinion, and exercise in futility.

. . . and after some wasted leather and effort, . . . I said to heck with it, . . . went back to what works.

May God bless,

Dwight

Maybe I missed it, but what style works? Adding leather to the upper part of the slide wouldn't lower the center of gravity so I must assume you mean to lower the carry position? Or is it something with the pancake style? The extra leather is to keep the weapon more secure correct? So my design is flawed two fold. Not secure enough and too high of a carry right? When on the belt the gun is actually pretty tight in the holster. Should I expect it to loosen too much as it breaks in (without the extra leather)? I'm connecting the dots, but I can be slow sometimes.

I'm sorry for the ignorance, but I just went for it and this is what I came up with. Poorly thought out is very true. I didn't have any patterns or holster knowledge to go on so I just jumped in. I have searched this site quite a bit and have found great info on the process, but very little on the design of auto holsters (other than pictures). I'm appreciative of the help and comments. Keep them coming please.

[camano ridge]

Cave there is know ignorance you are folowing the path we all folowed trying out holster making and learning from are experience. I was trying to be gentle, Dwight was more to the point. I think Katsass will probably be offering you some sage advice as well. We are not hammering what you did only trying to help you improve it. More leather wrapped around the holster does give a more secure holster. There is nothing wrong with a high ride holster, however there is such thing as too high of a ride. The picture makes it look like the bottom of the belt slot is only about 1/2 to 3/4" higher then the muzzle that puts alot of gun above the belt loop. you said the holster fits tight however you also said you get bounce, that is probably because the gun rides too high. So yes bringing your belt slots up a little and extending the holster as Dwight pointed out should help stabilize the holster considerably and if you have a good foundation ie a good belt then you should end up just about rock solid.

Edited November 11, 2013 by camano ridge

[katsass]

Cave; just my $.02 worth. You have received a pot-load of good information from experienced leather workers here. I suspect that you are currently involved in some form of law enforcement. I also feel that you are attempting to design a holster to carry a specific handgun -- concealed. With those in mind, one thing to remember is that a 'duty' (garrison) belt, be it with basket weave or not, is a poor measure of quality for carrying a shooter, concealed or not. It IS suitable ONLY for holding up your trousers. Many in law enforcement feel that the garrison belt is great for off duty wear when carrying almost any handgun, it 'feels' heavier that your 'normal' belt. That may well come from the fact that it's generally 1 5/8" wide -- not the normal 1 1/2" belt. They also feel that the Sam Browne rig is optimal. Wrong on both counts IMO. The heaviest of Sam Browne belts I have seen or worn consists of about 9oz leather lined (sometime only partially) with about 3oz. stuff. My garrison style gunbelt is made from 14oz leather cut from the back - lined with 2/3oz and fully stitched. Any form of gunbelt is required to provide a solid platform from which to do your handgun work, and combined with a holster suitable for your specific needs. I'll not go into your holster design other than to say listen to what Dwight and camano ridge have stated. If I'm correct in suspecting that you are setting up a fully concealed rig, my initial advice is; DRESS TO CONCEAL -- to attempt to conceal a weapon while in what is your "normal" attire is generally a loosing proposition. Look around and see what attire 'fits' your area, in the current weather, and find clothes that allow you to conceal. Then -- practice. (I've popped a LOT of buttons and torn a number of shirts and jackets "practicing") A second consideration most folks look at is "printing". Printing is not as much a problem as most think it is. What IS a problem is that the true bad guy, one that has spent time in lockup (I'm not just talking 10 days in the county jail) are observers. They WILL notice the inadvertent movements that you do because YOU know that YOU are carrying. It's unconscious, and it takes a pot-load of time to get to the point that wearing a gun on the hip feels so natural that you don't realize that it's there, BUT, knowing it's there all the time. Kind of an oxymoron ain't it? Well, I'm off the soapbox that I sort of tripped over and climbed up on. You have started on a great craft, and as in all things, you learn constantly. We all do. Mike

Edited November 11, 2013 by katsass

[CAVE]

For the new belt loop postition, I'm leaning towards about 1/2-3/4" higher. Does this seem like enough?

From some reading, retention straps seem to be a personal preference. I like the idea of no strap/snap, but would like to hear more ideas. What happends to this style of holster over the long haul? Will it loosen up quite bit to where it may be needed?

I did all the forming on the front piece, and the back leather is just flat. It that ok? Is some forming of the rear piece important? It seems more comfortable flat than a friends that has some forming of the back piece.

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming. I am working on the finish details of this one and then I will start another. I think I will try another with this same gun and change the position a little. I think it will be helpful to compare once I make a few changes. This sr22 is just a gun I will carry around for fun when out exploring the woods or hiking. Just a fun shooter to pack around for entertainment. I am just hoping to learn some things about the design before working on a conceal gun. I'm am new not only to holster making, but also to gun carry. I don't have a lot of experience to even know what to ask (hence the ignorance statement).

I probably won't be building a belt any time soon, but I am looking into some before the next holster build.

I have thick skin so I prefer blunt and to the point like Dwight. I'm just trying to fully understand the advice I'm recieving and maybe need the dumbed-down solution to go with the problem. The changes I feel are needed are somewhat intuitive, but I'm hoping I can bypass some trial and error by getting some answers here. Bring it on. If I thought it was perfect I wouldn't ask.

Edited November 11, 2013 by CAVE