How do I make the groover my friend??

[TomSwede]

It hates me!! Talking bout this one http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/product...?number=8074-00

I'm sure it hates other people too so throw in you .02cents and tips on how to make life easier with this little great but not great aid.

I have lots of problems with it skidding on top of leather or away from it. I don't think this is very strange. The round tip jumps up on top if you apply pressure wich I assume is the purpose with having a guided version. Why is the main piece rounded? I feel that this is why it skids on top. I'm thinking a square main piece with rounded corners would guide better and not be so sensitive to pressure. Perhaps this would cause to much drag instead??

When I ease of pressure it really want's to go away from the edge, especially when I hit a softspot.

I also think it is a bit hard to control the depth of the groove but I assume that will resolve with better control of the tool.

On the other hand I'm thinking perhaps the tools is supposed to be a little difficult so that beginners are scared off and that keep the folks in the know how better setup as top craftsmen/women but is that what we really want? I don't think so, the market will shrink and put us out of comission with that attitude, prolly.

This is off course not a serious saying from me but the thought struck me when I grooved a riflesling today that will not be topnotch in the grooving field of work.

One more thing, I'd like to se the possibility to make grooves even after edge beveling, That seems impossible to me with this tool(yeah, it has happened that I got carried away and rembered grooving after edgebeveling, wich is a tool with it's own characteristics too and deserves a separate thread;-)

So come on and fill this thread with useful tips and advice for all of us in the dark!

Tom

Edited September 27, 2008 by TomSwede

[Luke Hatley]

Tom in my shop i do use the buffing wheel a lot to refresh the edges of my tools that are supposed

to be sharp. i will use the dark color, then the red. "works for me"

[TomSwede]

Thanks Luke! I get your message. Maintenance and keeping your tools slick is always a good thing but I don't see how it can help with skidding probs. of the groover.

I want to break down this tool in pieces and find the missing link wich seem to be more of a mechanical issue and I want understand the behaviour of this tool wich would be a good help to maneuver it. So I can have my drivers license for it;-)

49 more and I get it perfect, definetly but since there is a freehand version and a guided version, one would expect the guided to be pretty slick from scratch and the freehand one more of a thing that just require a lot of practice. Sometimes there are no shortcuts and this may be one of those but I wanna poke around the subject a bit and see what comes up.

Tom

[Luke Hatley]

Keep on scratching. you will make only IF IT IS SHARP....

[ClayB]

Tom,

You need to try it left handed! Oh, no, that will just make you cuss. I think Luke is right, you have to make sure it's really sharp. Otherwise it wants to just skid around instead of cutting into the leather.

[CitizenKate]

Tom,

You need to try it left handed! Oh, no, that will just make you cuss. I think Luke is right, you have to make sure it's really sharp. Otherwise it wants to just skid around instead of cutting into the leather.

Oh for cryin' out loud... the reason I hate that thing is because I'm a lefty. It's made to be used right-handed. My right hand, although it can do some things as well as (or better than) my left, it struggles with pulling a groover smoothly around an edge. If only they would make a right-handed version of the blade... <sigh>

Kate

[Luke Hatley]

TOM I GOT IT FIGUERD OUT FOR YOU......"IT'S THE WIGGLIN PIN THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE WOBBLING SHAFT THAT IS NOT WORKING RIGHT"

[Timbo]

I've probably cut a mile of grooves with mine and am still on the first blade. It is easier for me if I am above and over the piece that I am grooving. Apply a lot of downward pressure and keep it tight to the edge but you also want to put pressure on the blade by twisting it to your left as you draw it towards you. (it is assumed it is in your right hand) It also helps to make sure you have a surface that the tool guide can slide on easily. I cut grooves on my rock as it is a slick surface that will not cause too much drag. Don't worry about getting depth on the first cut. Finish the first cut completely then come back and cut it deeper if needed, but be careful to follow the first cut or you can really screw it up badly. You also have to make sure you are holding the tool at the right angle to get the optimum cut from the blade.

Hope this helps............and groove all your scrap for practice.

Tim

[TwinOaks]

First off, Tom, you need to switch music! You need something that goes like this: "Groovin'.....on a Sunday afternoon...."

For all who prefer to work left handed here's what I suggest:

Get the freehand stitch groover, and insert into the craftool border tool. Or just learn to be ambidextrous.

Oh, and Tom, keep the tools sharp. I'm using the groover/original blade that I aquired from my dad. He bought them better than 35 years ago. Hmmmm, that says that either it's good tools, or I don't do enough stitching grooves......

[TomSwede]

Tom,

You need to try it left handed! Oh, no, that will just make you cuss. I think Luke is right, you have to make sure it's really sharp. Otherwise it wants to just skid around instead of cutting into the leather.

Thanks Clay! Other than buffing wheel, can it be stropped with a piece of thread with jewelers rouge on it?

TOM I GOT IT FIGUERD OUT FOR YOU......"IT'S THE WIGGLIN PIN THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE WOBBLING SHAFT THAT IS NOT WORKING RIGHT"

IT's the wigglin pig attached to the handle....

I've probably cut a mile of grooves with mine and am still on the first blade. It is easier for me if I am above and over the piece that I am grooving. Apply a lot of downward pressure and keep it tight to the edge but you also want to put pressure on the blade by twisting it to your left as you draw it towards you. (it is assumed it is in your right hand) It also helps to make sure you have a surface that the tool guide can slide on easily. I cut grooves on my rock as it is a slick surface that will not cause too much drag. Don't worry about getting depth on the first cut. Finish the first cut completely then come back and cut it deeper if needed, but be careful to follow the first cut or you can really screw it up badly. You also have to make sure you are holding the tool at the right angle to get the optimum cut from the blade.

Hope this helps............and groove all your scrap for practice.

Tim

Thanks Tim! Good point on body position, I've been sitting down and alltough I know it can be better to stand up and over some types of work it hasn't struck me to try that with the groover and I use the groover on my marble table top. Standing I think may help me to keep it at right angle too.

Gonna go use up some scrap right away with the good suggestions you've made!

First off, Tom, you need to switch music! You need something that goes like this: "Groovin'.....on a Sunday afternoon...."

For all who prefer to work left handed here's what I suggest:

Get the freehand stitch groover, and insert into the craftool border tool. Or just learn to be ambidextrous.

Oh, and Tom, keep the tools sharp. I'm using the groover/original blade that I aquired from my dad. He bought them better than 35 years ago. Hmmmm, that says that either it's good tools, or I don't do enough stitching grooves......

Oh, the music! Too much heavy metal in my shop you mean;-) but I do know a band that used alot of boggie woggie mixed with metal music and very groovy so I must definetly see if I can find those albums on cd somewhere;-)

Another question on topic, what is prefferred when grooving, dry or cased leather?

So far I had better results with it cased but it does cause more drag I think.

Tom, feeling groovy now

Edited September 27, 2008 by TomSwede

[leatheroo]

those things are meant to be sharpened???? i have the original one i bought when i was in high school...thirty + years ago and still works a dream!!

try changing the angle of the L shaped thingy that does the cutting.

[TomSwede]

Thanks Roo! I'm on the same track as you and didn't think they were meant to be shapened but since jewelers rogueand buffing seem to be the cure to everything I just thought maybe give it a try.

I've stropped it now but also switched to standing up wich really feels alot better and got a lot better results on the scrap pieces but I betcha I flunk with it going on a "sharp" piece. If you anticipate failure it often happens so.

I'm gonna pull out that riflesling now and have a second run in the first grooves.

I've tried to change the angle on the L thing cutter but since it's splined it seems to fall back into standard position, the little I can alter the angle.

Tom

Edited September 27, 2008 by TomSwede

[greg gomersall]

Tom quite often when you buff things you end up with a "wire edge" that folds over on the cutting edge. You are correct that you need to sharpen or polish the inside of the hole. Rub some beeswax on a thread then apply rouge to the thread and run it thru the hole on the groover. Now tie each end of the thread to something solid and your hands will be free to work your groover blade back and forth sharpening the inside of the hole. hope this helps. Greg

[TomSwede]

Tom quite often when you buff things you end up with a "wire edge" that folds over on the cutting edge. You are correct that you need to sharpen or polish the inside of the hole. Rub some beeswax on a thread then apply rouge to the thread and run it thru the hole on the groover. Now tie each end of the thread to something solid and your hands will be free to work your groover blade back and forth sharpening the inside of the hole. hope this helps. Greg

Thanks Greg!

Good tip! I did strop it with a rogued thread but had the groover clamped between my knees to be able to polish the inside and avoid the prob you mention with wire edge.

Doing it your way is a great tip and gives good control over the stropping.

Tom

[BearMan]

Hi Tom,

Those are some good ideas, Flat guide with rounded edges, to held guide it better. How about a more substantial blade shank, with a stronger adjusting screw. With a rosewood handle? Hmmmm, maybe my next tool. Anything else You'd change? Maybe a short version where your thumb rests on top of the blade, while the first two fingers straddle the guide post, to help guide the tool? Just an idea.

Ed

[Sharpshooter]

Pay close attention to the location of your tongue when using the groover...

I find that if I keep the first 13/16th of an inch clamped between my first premolar, second premolar and first molar with between 3 and 3.25 pounds of pressure on the side of my mouth opposite from the side of the workpiece it works perfectly.

It's simple... really.

[Hilly]

I don't have much trouble using the groover along a straight edge. I DO have problems however, grooving the edge of a circle. I have had better results holding the groover in a stationary position, and turning the leather circle beneath the groover blade.

I'm thinking about getting one of those groovers without the guide just to try out.

[TomSwede]

Hi Tom,

Those are some good ideas, Flat guide with rounded edges, to held guide it better. How about a more substantial blade shank, with a stronger adjusting screw. With a rosewood handle? Hmmmm, maybe my next tool. Anything else You'd change? Maybe a short version where your thumb rests on top of the blade, while the first two fingers straddle the guide post, to help guide the tool? Just an idea.

Ed

I'm really afraid that my retention screw will be flattened out soon. I am a natural born talent in doing just that to any screw wich may explain my probs with this tool further;-)

I did try standing today and worked with the angle of the tool and got some better results but knowing myself I'll probably flunk this tool a lot more because my mind drifts away when working. I also put more pressure to it and got sore fingers too.

Pay close attention to the location of your tongue when using the groover...

I find that if I keep the first 13/16th of an inch clamped between my first premolar, second premolar and first molar with between 3 and 3.25 pounds of pressure on the side of my mouth opposite from the side of the workpiece it works perfectly.

It's simple... really.

No wonder I have probs, I only know metric scales. A check on the conversion table should resolve this and then I handle it perfectly. Left side right!

Mike D (Twin oaks) came up with this idea.

Fuse the swivelknife border tool http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/product...?number=3204-00

with the freehand groover http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/product...number=88074-11

and I thought it was a cool idea so gonna check with my supplier if I can get it. Both tools separetly is welcome to my shop anyway so why not test it.

I wanna work with every little detail to make better results on lesser time and I seen some posts on people having troubles with skidding on top so aswell as working with perfecting working techniques I like to figure out shortcuts with the technical aids aswell. Who wouldn't choose Rob Beard stamps over craftools that doesn't sit straight on the stone?? My wallet currently decides that and getting better results any wich way I can will be a good to help to further investments or get my stuff out to customers faster wich is my main goal at the moment.

Tom

Tom

[ChuckBurrows]

This might help - I grind/file the lower edge to a 45° angle then polish smooth - here's a pic:

[ChuckBurrows]

try this - I grind/file the lower edge to a 45° angle then polish smooth - here's a pic..

[TomSwede]

That was a good idea. I'm thinking it may keep the tool more steady against the table top.

I just saw another one available that I've never heard of before but was very expensive but the bladecutter was where the polished tip is and where the Craftool one has the wireblade/cutter that one had a guide so kinda reversed to the Craftool one and the cutter is situated like with a pencil. Should be easier to maneuver around tight corners with that one.

If I was in US I get it instantly.

Gonna look at grinding it down like yours and polish.

Thanks alot Chuck!

[Tina]

Hi Tom,

I hope I did not missunderstand things here but...There is another one on the market. I have used it for about 7 years, adjusable and have no problema at all with it (and I can see no reason a lefty could not use it just as well as a righty, just turn the blade around) it comes in 3-4 (?( different sizes on the groove... I copy in a picture here, it's made by Texas simething (yeah, down in texas) and I copy in a picture and a auctiuon number on ebay

I love this one and find it more than simple to use.

320300413345

[TomSwede]

Hi Tom,

I hope I did not missunderstand things here but...There is another one on the market. I have used it for about 7 years, adjusable and have no problema at all with it (and I can see no reason a lefty could not use it just as well as a righty, just turn the blade around) it comes in 3-4 (?( different sizes on the groove... I copy in a picture here, it's made by Texas simething (yeah, down in texas) and I copy in a picture and a auctiuon number on ebay

I love this one and find it more than simple to use.

320300413345

Thanks Tina!

It looks like this one http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/product...?number=8069-00

Looks like same tool same function just easier to adjust the blade as far as I can see. Darryl (Sodapop) has one that looks really great though. The blade sits under the main handle piece and the guider out to the side wich puts the pressure right down to the blade.

I have this instictive feeling about this tool that I never gunna like it so definetly looking to get it sorted some other way if it is possible.

There was a lot of good tips that helped me with the second run really. I assume it would be like with the swivelknife, very hard to go for a second run so I'd still sit with the grooves of the first run if it wasn't for that. Sometimes you're just stuck with things and need a little push forward.

By the way, here is the finished sling and It cam out nicely int the end so thanks all who have helped with great tips and ideas!

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...amp;#entry63953

Tom

[sodapop]

this be the one toms talkin about that i have Tina...bob douglas's versa groover...$80.00 for the groover...tips sold seperate $15.00 each...and the tips come in three sizes...money well spent imo

this is the topside view...cutting edge of the tip is on the other side...but ya get the idea'r...

darryl

[Tina]

this be the one toms talkin about that i have Tina...bob douglas's versa groover...$80.00 for the groover...tips sold seperate $15.00 each...and the tips come in three sizes...money well spent imo

this is the topside view...cutting edge of the tip is on the other side...but ya get the idea'r...

darryl

Hi Darryl

That is one nice groover, congrats I know how it feels to have nice tools to work with in your hand. I almost empthied my ranson for the year visiting the leather show, dangerous territory for a tool freak :-) I came across this svivel knife and well, Just had to have it. I can do stuff with it like never before, Superhappy....It's the Leather Wrangler brand. If you ever have the opportunity, try it out. I only use angled blades and he made one for me on the spot.

And now I've also had the pleassure to meet Bob Beard and his tools. Man I need to win the Mega Millions or something. It would be extremly easy to go bankrupt in a place like that:-)

Edited September 29, 2008 by Tina