Burnishing Edges - Glue Line?

[Skald]

There must be more threads about finishing edges, than the number of times I have stuck or cut myself working with leather (i.e. many).

I haven't done much that have been "two piece glued together", where I have needed to make nice and shiny edges. But now when I try, I can't float my boat. So to speak.

I have no real problem to make the leather itself "Hideponder'esque" in smoothness and so forth. BUT... If I don't glue the two pieces together, they are merciless at splitting. Just a little twist and bend, or whatever "deforming", and the two parts split up.

If I do glue both parts together (using Barge's "All Purpose Cement", a red jar), I will get this thin glue line. Perhaps 0,5 mm's thick. And it doesn't really matter how much I burnish, it will still always be visible - even though I dye it. Simply because the rubber compound is softer than the leather, and will "wear down" and form a shallow sort of ditch between the two parts. You do notice small "turds" of rubber going off as you burnish.

I can't say I think I add very much glue, really. I apply to both parts, let them dry, put them together and squeeze, then hammer them a little with a mallet - and then even press them in a vice for a period of time.

I do all other parts, and "clear off" any residue of rubber on top of the edge. But we have this cursed sad visible line.

So how do I come to terms with this? Simply less rubber cement? I feel it's difficult to actually add any less, unless I try experiment and thin it out before I use it. And less cement could perhaps not be enough?

I don't know really. I made a few experiments on scrap bits today, but all of them have this "glue-line-ditch", despite looking great otherwise. And I need the edges to hold up, not just look pretty until you bend or do whatever with them. :-/

[DavidL]

id like to know this too happens to me a lot.

[Andrew Chee]

To some extent you will still see some glue line. With hidepounder's example you don't see much of a line cause he uses a very dark dye on the edge. I don't think seeing a small line is a problem. You can also try using white glue. Leathercraft cement.

I've recently come up with a slightly different burnishing method that I think gets good results:

-Glue and assemble pieces

-Use a belt sander with 80grit paper to even the edges and remove excess glue

-Edge corners with appropriate size edger

-Use Sheridan leather's quick slick on the edges

-Burnish with a rub stick or mechanically with a wooden wheel. This will get the edges decently smooth

-Hand sand edges with 400grit paper. This will give you the perfectly smooth edges

-Dye edges. I use angelus dye eons filled with whatever colored dye I want to use

-For the last step I either impregnate the edges with paraffin wax or apply Tandy edge finish with a q tip. For paraffin wax I use a motorized felt wheel with a groove cut in it. I turn on the motor and apply the wax onto the felt so it rubs in. Then I run the leather on the felt. The friction melts the wax into the edge.

So far I've found that the wax method gives the smoothest edge but I'm experimenting with the edge finish cause I'm looking for something with acrylic in it to hopefully get a longer lasting edge.

Hope this helps.

Andrew

[Red Cent]

I use TAP Weldwood gel. I will get the "line" if (1) I do not roll the two pieces of leather. I use a dough roller. (2) If I put the leather together before the glue is ready. I use a heat gun to hasten the process. And if I start working on the edge right after I roll it, even if the glue WAS ready for contact..

The "ditch" says you are not getting a flat squared off edge. I always square with a belt sander and/or a drum sander. The other problem occurs when you square the edges but leave one edge laying over the other. While looking square, the mated edges are not "equal". You have to sand until each piece compliments the other.

After I water burnish with a drill press, I dye the edge. At this point, when the edge is a little susceptible to forming, take stick/dowel rod (really slick stick) and with a modicum of pressure you can do away with a very thin line if necessary.

A good even sanded, curved edge will burnish to glassy smooth with just water. I do not use the paraffin, beeswax, glycerin bar soap any more unless really necessary.

[Skald]

Thank you all for fast and really serious answers!

So I've thought a little, and:

I'll try to "work in" the Barge Cement a little more, and make sure there ain't too much of it. I guess that's a good start hehe... Then due to your suggestions, I'll put some extra efforts into making sure the surface is as "level" as possible and not only looking so at a first glance. I doubt a little that the later part is the problem for me, as suggested by Red Cent. I think it's more that the rubber is "first to go" because it's softer, and that leaves a visible level difference. I have seen the same thing in working with wood and metals, if you have a harder and a softer material - and apply a little too much force when you work it. I'll also try to use less "stuff" as suggested by Red Cent, and at least try working with water and elbow grease instead, at least as a test.

I might add, that I am quite positive that I suffer from this "OCD" thing which makes me quite over judgmental. At least by western standards, had I been Japanese it would have been seen as fully normal. I'm not like "If nobody can see it's not 100% you are okay to roll", but rather "Things never should roll unless 100% perfect - no matter what people see". <

[rmr]

I would also add- before I glue the 2 pieces together, I hit the edges with whatever color dye Im going to use first. It seems to me that once the barge cement contact the un-dyed leather it creates a barrier for future dye to be absorbed properly. By dying first- the dye bleeds into the leather a bit, and after the pieces are glues , sanded and edged, burnished - I hit it again with the dye and everything comes out the same color with no line. Then I apply the paraffin wax and burnish again.

[Skald]

Oookay, I've done some experimenting again. And I am "sort of" pleased with the outcome.

I didn't completely get rid of "glue lines", but I got a pretty nice result anyway. Here's what I did.

- Rough up flesh side of leather with quite coarse sanding paper (or I have this "pads", but anyway).

- Apply Barge All purpose cement, rub it in a little, and sort of "scrape off" excess and get an even surface. Let dry for an hour or so.

- Put pieces together, press firmly. Smack the glued parts with wooden mallet, put between two "protective layers" or aluminum, mount in vice and let sit at quite hard pressure for an hour or so.

*sewing part left out*

- Sand edges carefully, using coarse sanding paper. Try to achieve the shape you want, sand both across and along the edge, to sort of "kill off" fibers that won't budge otherwise.

- Wet edge with fingertip, and sort of "rub it in" a little with fingertip. Leave to dry.

- Dye edge now if you intend to, let dry for a moment (I used Fiebings Oil Dye). Then sand it again with a fine sanding paper, and just add a little water to the edge again, and let dry.

- When dry, burnish with this wooden Dremel tool (bought mine from leatherburnishers.com), just go rather gently with it. Add a little water now and then, to avoid burNING instead of burNISHING.

- Dye again, if you feel it have become too "washed out" due to sanding and burnishing.

- Now you can buff a little more with a few drops of water, and a medium rough canvas cloth, to get it a little more even and smooth.

AND...

I haven't used any "compounds" at all as of yet, except for dye on one of the two test pieces I did (i.e. the other one left natural). But there are two I will use now.

I guess usual "gum trag" might do, but I used this other alternative offered by Seiwa Leather (goodsjapan.jp), smells like wood glue, and is supposed to be all natural. And it's great, much better than the gum trag I had earlier.

- Apply gum trag to edge with fingertip, sort of "work it in". Let it sit for a minute or so, then lightly rub it in even more. You might add a drop or two of water with your finger, and work it in even more. Add a second layer and to the same, let dry.

- Rub the edge lightly with a bone creaser (I used one I made out of reindeer horn), rub untill you get the level of "polish" you want. Then you can rub it a little more with a cloth, doesn't need to be very rough (used an old T-shirt myself).

- Treat the edge with a diluted "Mop'n Glo" compound. Don't have that brand here in Sweden, but I just what I had, and I was very pleased with the result. I simply dilute it a little to get a more sublime shine, not that mega glossy plastic feel, which might even rub off as some old snake skin. It seems to be absorbed better with a little water in it. I add a second layer right before the first one has really dried in. If you wish, you can of course coat the whole piece at this stage, but I didn't. Afterwards, you might wanna gently hand polish the piece, of course.

I was really pleased with the result of this. And I will make some sort of small bifold and use for a while, and see how this edge "sits in" after a month or so of usage. As with most leather, I guess it might look even better after a while.

So! I asked a question, got good answers, and returned a "status report" I hope might come in handy for some others too!

My idea generally is: As few zippers, buttons, plastic finishes, chemicals and so forth as possible - just to produce "unbreakable" stuff that will last until you grow tired of them and buy new. So this one do follow that principle quite well...

Edited April 13, 2014 by Skald

[Red Cent]

After shaping the edge with this and 220 grit:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_470354-1069-12194_0__?productId=4747433&Ntt=sanding+blocks&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dsanding%2Bblocks&facetInfo=

I finish with this:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_432449-98-SSG-F-4PK_0__?productId=4741478&Ntt=sanding&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dsanding%26page%3D3&facetInfo=

The sponge conforms with the round edge and takes off the "hair". Burnish with a little water first. The friction will lay every thing smooth. Then dye. Then burnish again. At this time, the only concern should be how to preserve the beautiful edge .

I think I will try the dye the first thing. Sounds very logical.

[Skald]

Can't seem to view the images, not even the domain lowes.com at the moment, so it might be temporary. Will again check later.

I have these "disposable" (that I don't dispose so often, but clean and re-use) sponge swabs with plastic handles, that I got from work (used to clean print heads on large format printers). It's really easy to apply different kinds of coatings without getting these darn bubbles etc. Next best thing to airbrushing I've tried. There's a certain amount of drama otherwise, if you get more and more bubbles occurring the more you try getting them out, and notice how the coating starts to cure. :D

And yeah, I think that if you dye first - "work it" - and re-dye, you'll have a deeper gone and more worked in dye, that will sit a bit better. Of course depending on what dye you use. These undyed hides are always a little difficult to get properly dyed. Unless of course if you "groon" them. But doing so seems to render the hides virtually "unchangeable", I think it makes like any other step more or less impossible (forming/burnishing/glueing/surface treating etc.).

[Dwight]

Skald, . . . I think you very probably have the process down well enough.

Your product is what is causing the problem. Put the Barges up on the shelf for making waders or something like that.

Get some Weldwood Contact Cement, . . . and follow the directions fully. Coat each piece, but not "liberally", . . . just a thin but fully uniform coat. Allow it to dry. Make sure it is DRY.

Next put the pieces together, . . . use a rolling pin (belts) or a small wallpaper roller for holsters and the like. Sand it flush (I use both a round and a belt sander, . . . far prefer the belt). Edge it, . . . and burnish it.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Red Cent]

..........

[chiefjason]

I'm with Dwight. Weldwood Contact Cement, red can. As long as you can find it on your side of the world. If you can't find Weldwook in particular, look for a contact cement used for cabinet making or laminating wood. Something that dries harder than a flexible rubber type cement.

[Skald]

..........

That's some pretty slick edges, looks like they are cut from wood.

Skald, . . . I think you very probably have the process down well enough.

Your product is what is causing the problem. Put the Barges up on the shelf for making waders or something like that.

Get some Weldwood Contact Cement, . . . and follow the directions fully. Coat each piece, but not "liberally", . . . just a thin but fully uniform coat. Allow it to dry. Make sure it is DRY.

Next put the pieces together, . . . use a rolling pin (belts) or a small wallpaper roller for holsters and the like. Sand it flush (I use both a round and a belt sander, . . . far prefer the belt). Edge it, . . . and burnish it.

May God bless,

Dwight

Great thanks, I hardly thought of an alternative glue compound, for some odd reason. I got this quite worthless glue for thin leather, which most certainly won't do. But beyond that there must be others that leaves a thinner "weld". I'll look up the Weldwood thing, and see if I can get hold of it. I live in Sweden, and many products can't be shipped because they are considered dangerous as they are flammable. Again, thanks.