Holster "fillers"

[JLSleather]

IN a couple of printed (vintage) designs, the patterns for the J-frame revolver (and Stohlman's 'single six') state that 'fillers are recommended" for 'this type' of holster.

Anybody adding these in? That's crossed my mind off n on for quite a while, finally just decided to make a couple and play with that. The J-frame is small, so not sure where you would need fillers. I tried a couple ways, none of them seemed to aid the fit of the gun.

Anybody else?

[katsass]

All the hell a filler does is expand the welt of a holster. Some use it instead of making their pattern large enough or, in the case of the enclosed picture, when one is damned well foolish enough to believe what a customer says and then, is damned if he would waste the leather and time involved in starting over. Mike P.S. I should have shrunk the pic -- sorry -- but you can see a whole pot-load of 'filler strips' in this example --- and there are nine layers of leather I had to hand stitch through..

Edited May 4, 2014 by katsass

[Steve75]

The first holster I made was from a pattern in the Stohlman How To Make Holsters Book. I made the holster on page 18 for the Colt Police Positive with a 4" barrel. The holster ended up fitting my a J-Frame .32 S&W my Dad had so it found a home with him. No filler was needed. From that great book comes the following: "The filler keeps the holster spread open and helps in preventing the leather from rubbing constantly on the gun and wearing off the bluing. It prevents the holster from binding on the trigger guard which is important in the quick draw and snub-nosed holsters."

The best advice I ever got from anyone on this forum was to acquire a copy of this book in my efforts to learn how to make holsters. Thanks Mike (katsass).

Edited May 4, 2014 by Steve75

[Dwight]

I personally have always thought that while that design may have it's uses, . . . lovers, . . . etc, . . . I'd never be one.

To me, . . . it looks like something that Mickey Mattel would make for his Moon Warrior Phaser pistol.

May God bless,

Dwight

[supercub]

Many years ago I bought a custom knife from a pretty good knife maker. The knife was excellent, and I still use it. However, the sheath he made for it had a stacked welt almost an inch thick like what is shown above. It was just plain UGLY! I figured I could make a sheath that would't be any worse so I went down to the local craft store and bought a couple of scrap pieces of veg tan and Stohlman's book on how to hand stitch leather. I had not worked with leather since junior high shop class many years before.

Using the book and a box cutter, I made a fair looking sheath ( though I inadvertently flipped my pattern and made it left handed) that I showed to another kniife maker. He liked it and asked for me to make some sheaths for him. One thing led to another, and for a number of years, I made lots of knife sheaths for custom makers - but I never made one with a multi layer stacked welt. Nowadays I still make the ocaisional sheath and holster as a hobby, but everytime I see one of those "fillers" I shake my head and remember how they caused me to start working with leather

[JLSleather]

One of the patterns I was talking about is in that stohlman book - p 23. That sucker has some ROOM in there. Actually, I was thinking that's a J-frame, but on closer search, S/W had a K frame 38 M&P about that era, which would account realistically for the size of the holster. Yep, thinkin' tha's a K FRAME holster.

[katsass]

Steve75 mentioned an exert from Al Stohlman's book "How to Make Holsters" stating (basically) that the filler was there to keep the holster mouth open. This statement seems to make little to no sense at this time, HOWEVER. thinking back, I realize that when I began to play with holsters, nobody that I knew or heard of wet formed them. Al Stohlman certainly made no mention of wet forming in his book. A holster wasn't generally made for a specific handgun - usually it for a ".38 with a 4 to 6 inch barrel". A truly 'custom holster would be made to fit ONLY a 4 inch gun. I have had a few 'old timers' (I can say this since I'm such a young sprout) latch on to a new holster of mine and try to squeeze the damned thing to see how 'supple' it is. Back then one would force (if necessary) the gun into the generic rig and allow the gun to remain in the leather 'till it the dead cow skin sort of molded to it. I don't even remember when I began to wet mold my stuff. I DO know that as late as 1958 my holsters were of the 'generic' style and were treated with saddle soap and neatsfoot oil to make then 'supple'. Mike

Edited May 4, 2014 by katsass

[JLSleather]

I've made some holsters, but i wasn't born yet in '58 Confusing a bit with all the numbers, which supposedly are 'sizes'. The S/W "I" frame nowhere near the same as the Colt "I" frame (which used to be the "E" frame) ....

Bad enough they can't get the numbers together one manufacturer to the next .. but to confound the thing they changed designations within the same brand. Likely the work of some marketing monkeys (and perhaps also their boyfriends)...

[Eaglestroker]

Maybe I'm not comprehending this correctly, or maybe I'm just simple minded in my leather work. It was my understanding in something like a sheath that you always used a center welt to prevent the edge from cutting the threads. Are we knocking a welt, or a stack of welts? My experience is limited but a single welt on revolver holsters allows me to fit the gun while also minimizing the footprint of the holster, and I also like how rigid it makes the main seam of the holster. This is an example of a pattern that I'd need to extend a good 1/2" front and back to make up for the lack of welt:

Never claimed to be anything more than an amateur though!

[JLSleather]

Nice color - I like that one.

On this one, you're talking about gaining the thickness in trade for the width. Got it. Tough to tell from that angle, but it looks like you've added a welt nearly the length of the seam. Was it too tight without the full-length filler? I mean, could you have got away with a filler from the trigger guard - say - half way down, tapering to nothing?

Or, what of the person who wants the trigger covered? Would you still use a filler, or just come back that half inch (or likely a bit more) to let the trigger fall into the leather?

[supercub]

Don't get me wrong. I think a welt is absolutely necessary on a knife sheath to prevent the blade from cutting the stitches. Only time I wouldn't use a welt was if the leather was a decorative cover over a rigid liner (like a wooden liner for a sword scabbard). My complaint was specific to the large "unnecessary" stack of welting that substituted for proper fitting and design. I try to keep the welt thickness equal to or slightly thicker than the blade. It helps prevent the blade from moving around inside the sheath. The sheath I referenced was actually dangerous since the wide welt allowed the blade to move around and work a hole into the non welt side.

As a design element in a holster, I can see it in a conventional (not detail molded) style. Yours looks great!

[Josh Ashman]

I put full welts in western holsters and knife sheaths. The reason in knife sheaths is to keep from cutting the stitches and holsters is because I like how it looks, and like Robert, I like that it stiffens up the main seam. There's no "lack of design" or "making up for improper fitting" going on, it's intentional. I don't put welts in pancake holsters although I think Lobo has a design that does this. There's plenty of ways to do the job, just whatever you like.

Best regards, Josh

[Eaglestroker]

Nice color - I like that one.

On this one, you're talking about gaining the thickness in trade for the width. Got it. Tough to tell from that angle, but it looks like you've added a welt nearly the length of the seam. Was it too tight without the full-length filler? I mean, could you have got away with a filler from the trigger guard - say - half way down, tapering to nothing?

Or, what of the person who wants the trigger covered? Would you still use a filler, or just come back that half inch (or likely a bit more) to let the trigger fall into the leather?

Feibings Pro Oil Dark Chocolate cut 40/60 with denatured alcohol, two coats then oil and resolene. It's a pretty consistent color and so dark some mistake it for black which is what I was looking for.

The angle isn't ideal but I was lucky to have that picture considering that was a year old. That one required a reverse taper where it was a single 8 oz layer at the top and tapered to a double layer at the bottom to accommodate the lug and big snout of the 44. If one wanted a cover trigger guard I'd probably have a piece of of leather over it - if your worried about the leather becoming soft you could put a retention screw on the backside of the trigger guard. Too much hassle to try and take the stitching up that far IMO on this design.

Don't get me wrong. I think a welt is absolutely necessary on a knife sheath to prevent the blade from cutting the stitches. Only time I wouldn't use a welt was if the leather was a decorative cover over a rigid liner (like a wooden liner for a sword scabbard). My complaint was specific to the large "unnecessary" stack of welting that substituted for proper fitting and design. I try to keep the welt thickness equal to or slightly thicker than the blade. It helps prevent the blade from moving around inside the sheath. The sheath I referenced was actually dangerous since the wide welt allowed the blade to move around and work a hole into the non welt side.

As a design element in a holster, I can see it in a conventional (not detail molded) style. Yours looks great!

Everyone has their own style - that's the fun in leather work.

I put full welts in western holsters and knife sheaths. The reason in knife sheaths is to keep from cutting the stitches and holsters is because I like how it looks, and like Robert, I like that it stiffens up the main seam. There's no "lack of design" or "making up for improper fitting" going on, it's intentional. I don't put welts in pancake holsters although I think Lobo has a design that does this. There's plenty of ways to do the job, just whatever you like.

Best regards, Josh

Bingo Josh. Ray's "Enhanced Pancake" uses a welt to allow the belt to pass through a center layer and out the back. Excellent design that really sucks the holster up tight against the body, and the welt adds a lot of rigidity/support to the 'wings' of the pancake.