Insurance

[Steven Kelley]

I'm not sure how many of these lawsuits would end up in a jury trial, but I would be very skeptical of anything remotely based on "common sense" coming from one. I was fortunate enough to serve on a grand jury (2 days a week for 4 months) a couple of years ago. It was an eye opening experience to say the least. I know a grand jury and a civil law suit are two completely different things, but just seeing how some of my fellow jurors reacted to any case involving a gun, and their lack of knowledge of guns, gun safety, common sense gun handling, or just common sense in general, I would not want to be a participant in a trial where I could be found negligent because of someone else's bad judgement and or stupidity. You never know how people that could be on a jury will react to a case involving a gun or gun related product. Especially if they hear a sob story presented by a money hungry lawyer. Now I could hire a really good (and really expensive) lawyer to represent me, and hopefully keep me from being found liable, but that might come at a very high price. I don't sell enough holsters or make enough money to cover that type of expense.

The LLC route mentioned earlier is not a bad idea. I have been thinking pretty seriously about converting my business to a LLC. Will that protect me 100%? Probably not, but it is one more layer of protection that might be nice to have. I have liabiility insurance, which is another layer of protection. Liability insurance AND being an LLC might be a good way to go. Not 100% bullet proof, so to speak, but moreso than nothing at all. Setting up an LLC looks fairly simple and not that expensive. It shouldn't really change your taxation much, if at all. Looking at LegalZoom.com, setting on up in AZ, including the state fees, would be under $300, which doesn't seem too bad. LegalZoom charges $99 for their work, which also seems reasonable. I could spend 3 - 4 hours studying what papers to file, downloading forms, filling out forms, mailing in forms, etc, or I could make 2 - 3 holsters in that time and pay for the entire process. Seems like a no brainer to me.

As a side note, I have a friend with rental houses. He had a tenant 3 years ago that fell behind on rent. The tenant was never sent an eviction notice. The tenant decided to move out and left the place a wreck. My friend did not return his deposit. The tenant was a legal student and decided to sue my friend for the $200 deposit. My friend fought the lawsuit. The case has gone round and round in the AZ legal system. My friend has a lawyer representing him. He has spent over $15,000 on legal fees to date, and the case is not close to being over yet. All over a $200 deposit. It's crazy. He's fighting the guy just on principle now. He doesn't even care how much it costs. He has lots of money though. I don't. I couldn't afford something like that. His fight is over a $200 depost. Can you imagine what a case about a firearm and firearm related item could turn into? I would hate to think about it. Guns make some people crazy. I would hate to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit where some crazies get to decide my fate, or liability. Get all the protection you can afford. Hopefully you won't need it, but if you do, you'll be glad you have it.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Steven Kelley

[BDAZ]

I've used Legal Zoom to set up an AZ LLC. Piece of cake! However, be absolutely sure you follow the annual requirements to the letter or you give the lawyers a crack to crawl into cockroach style.

Cya!

Bob

[Red Cent]

"why are you carrying a firearm with a chambered cartridge and not on safe?"

98% of us (me included) carry with a round chambered. I carry a Colt Commander "cocked and locked" and have done so for forty years. C&L means hammer cocked, safety on and a round is in the chamber.

I have a Glock so I am not knocking them when I say I bet it was a Glock. You pull the trigger they go bang. Get your finger in the way they go bang. Snag the trigger on something and they go bang. The Glock has three different safeties but none keeps you from pulling the trigger.Kinda like any double action revolver would act.

I have made the call and I am waiting for pricing on the liability insurance. And I will look at incorporating. Or LLC.

[St8LineGunsmith]

red cent

I must be in that 2% that don't carry cocked and locked. I have always thought it to be very unsafe practice

I mean if the time comes when I need it in a situation racking a round in the chamber would be less than one one hundredth of a second.

thats just my thoughts

[chiefjason]

I have a Glock so I am not knocking them when I say I bet it was a Glock. Y

Since it was a Glock holster, I would say you are correct. And look at the names. I'm surprised they did not name Glock in there. 3 out of 4 names in the suit I recognize.

In the end, do the best work you can. But stupid people will avoid responsibility by any means possible.

Draw fast, shoot straight, holster slow.

red cent

I must be in that 2% that don't carry cocked and locked. I have always thought it to be very unsafe practice

I mean if the time comes when I need it in a situation racking a round in the chamber would be less than one one hundredth of a second.

thats just my thoughts

Try it one handed while fighting someone off of you. That's what I suggest to most folks that carry unchambered. Most SD shootings are close and fast. There not much of a chance you will actually need a gun in SD. But if you do, my guess is there is a good chance at least one hand is occupied when you need it. But to each their own. Just food for thought.

[Lobo]

As others have pointed out, anyone can sue anyone else at any time. But once the lawsuit is filed the defendant must defend against the action, otherwise face judgement by default. Legal defense generally requires attorneys, and attorneys do not work for free.

One of the major advantages of carrying liability insurance is that the insurance company will handle the legal defense. Of course, their attorneys will be working primarily to shield the insurance company from exposure, but the defendant's interests are generally the same as the insurance company's.

Pre-trial defense expenses can easily rise into the tens of thousands of dollars. Actually going to trial will cost even more. Plaintiffs' attorneys understand this very well; they know that most cases will be settled out of court by payment of an amount perceived as being less than defense costs (commonly refered to as "nuisance" settlements).

Without insurance you remain on the hook for all expenses, win or lose.

Pay the insurance premiums and you can worry less.

[St8LineGunsmith]

Try it one handed while fighting someone off of you. That's what I suggest to most folks that carry unchambered. Most SD shootings are close and fast. There not much of a chance you will actually need a gun in SD. But if you do, my guess is there is a good chance at least one hand is occupied when you need it. But to each their own. Just food for thought.

I dont want to start a big debate on gun safety but there is no reason to go around carrying your firearm cocked and locked there are many times I felt potential danger where I un holster my weapon, chamber a round inconspicuously as possible put it on safe then reholster the weapon.

I have been in stores where I felt potental danger so I went to the bathroon and racked a round.

even if the gun is empty it is a loaded gun I treat all of my guns as if they are loaded.

when I was in my 20's I had to shoot a home invasion intruder who broke in while were all asleep I wont go into all the details because it is still disturbing even after all this time but is still the number one reason why I carry.

the gun was a Colt .45 and it was unchambered until it needed to be chambered so that SD scenario don't work with all situations and it was a life or death situation because I was staring down the barrel of the perps gun when I shot and killed him.

most of my friends carry cocked and locked I don't see the purpose or need for that practice.

more food for thought is the only way a gun can accidentally be discharged is if there is a round already chambered, guns cant load themselves.

[Ed in Tx]

All one needs to do it watch television for a few hours and you will see several advertisements for lawyers willing to file a lawsuit for just about anything. It is really sad in my opinion that so many individuals in our society want to place blame on someone else rather than accept responsibility for their own actions.

We would all be a lot better off if we had a few less lawyers and more people willing to be accountable for their own stupidity.

[BDAZ]

But think of the thousands of lawyers that would be pan handling at intersections, clogging up the homeless shelters and wolfing down welfare.

Tragic!

Bob

[chrstn53]

Since the beginning of time there have always been swindlers and scammers trying to get something for nothing. In the current times it's even worse because people seem to want to push the blame away from themselves and in most cases truly believe that what ever incident occurred had nothing to do with their own stupidity or neglect. But it also goes both ways, usually when a company or person tries to cut corners. About 8 years ago I took several business law classes and we did extensive case studies of previous judged cases and reviewed a case against an actually small batch leatherworker. In a brief summary the case was over a man who purchased a dog collar for his purebred high dollar dog from a local leather worker. The plaintiff was walking his dog and the dog got anxious and tried to run after something it spotted. The dog was pulling away from the owner and the collar broke apart resulting in the dog being run over by a car and eventually dying. The plaintiff found a swanky lawyer who was also a pretty well know saddle maker in that area. As I recall the collar maker used a single jiffy rivet after the dee ring and buckle. The lawyer was able to demonstrate that at low stress pulls that the low quality jiffy rivet would pop off and they also had an advertisement from the leatherworker which stated that he used the highest quality hardware in his dog collars and that they should last a lifetime with normal use. If I remember correctly the plaintiff was awarded well over $30,000 for the dog, hospital bills and damages. With the famous McDonald's case they kept their coffee 30 degrees hotter than the industry standard so the coffee would last longer resulting in less pots being pored out and being remade. I only mention the cases above because it shows that in some instances that saving a few bucks and cutting corners could really cost you in the end. In my opinion anyone who produces something that will be in turn sold to the public should have some sort of liability insurance. The man who made the dog collars probably sold hundreds of them with out incident but when one of his collars broke it cost him big time. Also who knows, maybe the dog ran out of the house when the man opened the door and got run over. Possibly the man got home and realized that he will be getting a vet bill for several thousand dollars and noticed the recently purchased dog collar on the shelf. Who would know if he picked the collar up and pulled in opposite directions around the bend popping off the jiffy rivets.