1911 Blue Guns

[Modad2010]

So I am needing to get a cocked and locked mold gun for a 5" 1911. The only one that Rings has is a Springfield A-1. I have heard that sometimes the various 1911 makers weapons won't always fit right in holsters that were molded to other makers weapons - Kimber into Springfield or such. Can anyone suggest a mold gun that will fit the widest variety of 5" 1911's and does anyone know which ones will not work together? Thanks in advance.

[Red Cent]

If you are molding in super detail, I can't say. If you are not, the A-1 and the Colt 1911 would be OK. The A-1 has a taller front sight than the Army 1911.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=colt+1911&qpvt=colt+1911&FORM=IGRE#view=detail&id=54FCD4E58FD7CAA6CC2A951EB32437DA5ED58EBB&selectedIndex=0

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=439380536

[Modad2010]

Not too worried about the height of the sight since I mold in a sight channel with a dowel rod, but thanks for the info.

[Dwight]

My Rings blue gun only found one that didn't fit, . . . it was an older 1911, Stainless, made by Springfield. The dust cover was bigger, thicker than any other I ever ran across.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Modad2010]

My Rings blue gun only found one that didn't fit, . . . it was an older 1911, Stainless, made by Springfield. The dust cover was bigger, thicker than any other I ever ran across.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, Which Model of rings do you have, the Colt or the Springfield A-1?

[chiefjason]

The Kimber problem is the Solo, it looks Officer 1911'ish but different dimensions. Sig also has a proprietary slide that will not work with a standard 1911 holster. The Sig slide is thicker on the top than a standard 1911 slide. The rest are pretty much the same.

I have not had a problem with a standard 1911 and either the Ring's 5" or Commander length.

One thing I did quit doing was boning in any textures on the slide like the fins/cuts for racking the slide. Those change a lot and mismatching them looks funny.

Edited September 10, 2014 by chiefjason

[Dwight]

My Rings blue gun only found one that didn't fit, . . . it was an older 1911, Stainless, made by Springfield. The dust cover was bigger, thicker than any other I ever ran across.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, Which Model of rings do you have, the Colt or the Springfield A-1?

I had to go look, . . . it is the Colt, . . . but not with the "cocked & locked" attitude.

When I'm doing a Commander, . . . I just use my own firearm, . . . as that is the size I carry.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Itch]

We have a 5" springfield 1911 Ring,s blue gun with a mark at 3" and 4" and also have the Sig with rails.. I have never had any complaint,s of a holster fitment .. I am a bit of a 1911 addict and will test a lot of our 1911 holsters.. The Springfield blue gun mold runs just a little smaller than the actual weapon..

[Modad2010]

Thanks guys. Looks like it will be the Springfield in the cocked and locked 5". I also like the idea of marking it at the other lengths. I already have a mold for a four inch Sig 1911 that I picked up earlier for a custom build. Thanks again.

[Splash]

Since almost all of the molds are slimmer that the actual gun itself, what I do is tape the sides and top of my molds to make it the same dimmension as the real thing.

[Lobo]

The 1911 pistols are being, or have been produced, by dozens of large and small manufacturers over the years. There have been any number of differences in dimensions, even among the so-called "mil-spec" pistols.

The Pistol, U.S. Army, Model of 1911 was designed by John M. Browning for Colt Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company. The original 1911 pistols were manufactured by Colt (1912 to 1927, with some residual assembly of existing parts for several years) and also by Springfield Armory (the original US government arsenal, not today's Springfield Armory), Remington-UMC, North American Firearms (Canada). In 1927 a number of small changes were ordered, resulting in the US Model 1911A-1, as produced by Colt, Remington-Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch & Signal Corporation, and Singer during WW2 (with some parts contracted to others including Savage, Little Manufacturing, Risdon, General Shaver, and many others). The same design continued in production after WW2 as the Colt Government Model, later joined by the Commander/Combat Commander, Gold Gup, Ace, Service Model Ace, .38 Super Automatic, Officers Model, Delta Elite, Defender, and others including the modified Model 1991A1.

One of the requirements for all military contract pistols was that every part in every pistol be interchangeable with those of every other pistol, regardless of manufacturer. Had that remained the standard there would be less difficulty for us today, but even that would not have solved the issues raised by the booming market in customized 1911 pistols from the 1960's onward, with dozens of shops customizing and building pistols from parts available from military surplus and after-market sources.

In the shop I regularly use 8 dummy guns from various sources. My personal collection includes 28 pistols dating from 1914 to 2013 manufacture. There are still pistol variations that I cannot match.

Probably the most obvious dimensional differences are in the length of the barrel/slide group. Originally a 5" barrel was standard, but there have been production pistols with barrels from 3" to 7" produced. Also, different manufacturers do not make these parts to the same actual dimensions; the quoted measurement is a nominal number rather than the as-built dimension. Some pistols utilize a barrel bushing while others do not, and the dimensions of the barrel bushings vary considerably.

Some of the earlier Springfield Armory pistols incorporated a larger than standard dust cover, and quite a few of those pistols were produced and continue to be used.

Some makers offer flat-top slides, rather than the rounded-top of the original pistols. Even without the flat-top feature the radius of slides from different manufacturers can vary quite a bit. Other models exist with slab-sided slides, or dust covers extending to the muzzle end of the slide. Several offer double-stack magazine models, with completely different grip-frame dimensions.

One of the most common features on the more modern production pistols has been the use of larger than standard ejection ports, and the actual size and contour of the ejection ports vary widely from one maker to another. A holster closely fitted to a pistol having an enlarged ejection port will not accept the earlier original mil-spec pistols.

Accessory rails have become common and most makers offer this option. However there is no commonality in rail dimensions.

Size, shape, and contours of the thumb-safeties, slide releases, magazine releases, grip safety tangs, hammers, and sights vary widely from one manufacturer to another. Standard round trigger guards and squared-off and hooked versions exist. These areas are also complicated by the hundreds of after-market accessory parts offered by different companies.

For the owners of custom made pistols or any of the highly modified production pistols shopping for holsters my usual recommendation is a custom shop, as no regular production holsters will fill the need. Unless the holster maker resides within the customer's state of residence this requires compliance with all federal, state, and local laws pertaining to firearms transfers. Shipping a pistol twice, with insurance coverage during transit and while in the holster maker's custody, and FFL dealer transfer fees usually exceed the value of any production holster. Also, custom holster production takes far more time for design, patterning, prototype or mock-up to finalize the pattern, etc, than the production of any holster to a standardized pattern. The total of costs involved will exceed the market value of many production pistols, so this is a very narrow slice of the holster maker's overall marketplace.

To the OP's question about which handguns or dummies might work for the broadest range of production pistols my response is that this will depend on the customer's definition of "how close is close enough". The owner of a one-of-a-kind custom pistol in which thousands of dollars have been invested might not shy away from spending several hundred more on a perfectly fitted holster. The owner of one of the more obscure production variations might react differently.

All of these things may be resolved with the innovations in 3-D printing technology. With the proper equipment it is now possible to scan a pistol, store the details digitally, transmit that data via e-mail attachment, and make a nearly perfect replica anywhere. Unfortunately, for now the up-front expenses involved are beyond the means of most folks, especially for a one-off project.

Best regards.