Hermann Oak Full Grain?

[zaynexpetty]

This might be a stupid question, but, does anyone know if Hermann Oak's Grade A tooling leather is full grain or top grain? I am assuming it is full grain, considering that "A" is their highest grade, I'm just not 100% sure.

Thanks

Zayne

[RiverCity]

Veg tan leather is full grain period. The grading is about how clear the hide is ex. range marks, brands, bug bites and other scars. The better the grade the less marks on the surface.

Hope this helps

Chuck

[camano ridge]

As RiverCity said Veg tanned is full grain. Here is a chart that may help you understand the grading. That is not to say everyone strictly follows it. However it will give you a guide.

[Gump]

Sometimes vegtan leather that has been surface sanded will be referred to as Top Grain. Full grain is the top layer, split or not. Gump.

[zaynexpetty]

Sometimes vegtan leather that has been surface sanded will be referred to as Top Grain. Full grain is the top layer, split or not. Gump.

That's what I thought! I was beginning to think I was an idiot.

[WyomingSlick]

" You frequantly hear of leather being "full" or "top" grain. This means leather made from hides or skins with no surface blemishes. These are usually from skins of younger animals with firmer fiber structure and whose surface shows a "pure" or natural grain. This is the best-grade leather. "

from the article: "The Wondorous World of Leather" by William A. Rossi in the March 1988 issue of THE LEATHER CRAFTSMAN

and, " NO ! " Vegetable tanned leather is NOT full grain period, because the term refers only to the method of tanning, nothing else ! The leather that is split off of the bottom can still be designated as vegetable tanned leather if it is tanned by using any of the vegetable methods versus the mineral salts method.

[zaynexpetty]

" You frequantly hear of leather being "full" or "top" grain. This means leather made from hides or skins with no surface blemishes. These are usually from skins of younger animals with firmer fiber structure and whose surface shows a "pure" or natural grain. This is the best-grade leather. "

from the article: "The Wondorous World of Leather" by William A. Rossi in the March 1988 issue of THE LEATHER CRAFTSMAN

and, " NO ! " Vegetable tanned leather is NOT full grain period, because the term refers only to the method of tanning, nothing else ! The leather that is split off of the bottom can still be designated as vegetable tanned leather if it is tanned by using any of the vegetable methods versus the mineral salts method.

Exactly what I thought. Thank you for the assurance!

[RiverCity]

" You frequantly hear of leather being "full" or "top" grain. This means leather made from hides or skins with no surface blemishes. These are usually from skins of younger animals with firmer fiber structure and whose surface shows a "pure" or natural grain. This is the best-grade leather. "

from the article: "The Wondorous World of Leather" by William A. Rossi in the March 1988 issue of THE LEATHER CRAFTSMAN

and, " NO ! " Vegetable tanned leather is NOT full grain period, because the term refers only to the method of tanning, nothing else ! The leather that is split off of the bottom can still be designated as vegetable tanned leather if it is tanned by using any of the vegetable methods versus the mineral salts method.

Vegetable tanned tooling leather is indeed full grain. Dont believe me, call Wickett and Craig, Hermann Oak etc and ask them.

Full grain means the leather as it is taken off of the animal and the hair removed then tanned. The "grain" or epidermal layer is intact. And yes if someone was selling veg tan splits, it would still be veg tan, but the top piece with the epidermis would be still be called full grain.

Top grain is synonymous with corrected grain, meaning the epidermis has been sanded etc and is usually used to describe chrome tanned leather.

[camano ridge]

• Full-grain leather refers to hides that have not been sanded, buffed, or snuffed (as opposed to top-grain or corrected leather) to remove imperfections (or natural marks) on the surface of the hide. The grain remains allowing the fiber strength and durability. The grain also has breathability, resulting in less moisture from prolonged contact. Rather than wearing out, it will develop a patina over time. High quality leather furniture and footwear are often made from full-grain leather. Full-grain leathers are typically available in three finish types: aniline, semi-aniline and napa leather.

• Top-grain leather (the most common type used in high-end leather products) is the second-highest quality. It has had the "split" layer separated away, making it thinner and more pliable than full-grain. Its surface has been sanded and a finish coat added to the surface which results in a colder, plastic feel with less breathability, and it will not develop a natural patina. It is typically less expensive and has greater resistance to stains than full-grain leather, so long as the finish remains unbroken.

Leather Basics

Most leather today is taken from cows because of their size, availability, and exceptional quality of leather. However, depending on the use, leather is also commonly taken from pigs, sheep, deer, horses, and kangaroos. Additionally, some of the more exotic leathers come from alligators, ostriches, elephants, snakes, frogs, and stingrays.

Full-Grain Leather vs. Top-Grain Leather

The strongest and most durable part of the hide of an animal is just below the hair. The grain pattern in this part of the hide is very tight, and the leather made from here is called "full-grain" leather. Full-grain leather is the strongest and most durable leather. Additionally, since the grain is so tight, it resists moisture very well. Over time, full-grain leather will look nicer and nicer and develop a patina from being handled.

The next best—and second strongest—leather is called "top-grain" leather. Top grain leather is similar to full-grain leather, except that the top couple millimeters have been sanded and buffed to take away imperfections. With the top layer removed, the leather will have a more uniform finish, but it won't be as durable—and it will break down much faster. This is more of a "cookie cutter" leather that most leather wallets and handbags are made of, which lends to their generic appearance. Top-grain leather can be good leather, but its strength and durability is not even close to the strength of full-grain leather.

Edited November 8, 2014 by camano ridge

[nrk]

well, guys, if the leather is mis-splitted (weight differs over the side from 4/5oz to 5.5/6oz), so does this go as lower grade? For example i bought it as B grade, can I ask seller to replace it with the proper, even one?

Edited November 12, 2014 by nrk

[NVLeatherWorx]

Sometimes you will find a side that may have some slight fluctuations, the more "value" based the tannery (that means cheaper) the more the chance of this happening. It should be noted that Hermann Oak only selects the highest quality Steer hides which are larger and stronger as the animal is not of the "fatty" variety like most other leathers that are sent out for tanning. It is true that not all veg-tan is full grain but only full grain can be tooled so let's put that to rest right there.

It should also be noted that some pigskin lining leathers are veg-tanned (even though I am sure EVERYONE thinks that they are Chrome Tanned) and that isn't just the Natural pigskin leather either. There is a supplier that has veg-tanned Mission Grain pigskin for lining purposes and I can tell you that there is a big difference between how it feels and works versus the Chrome tanned version.

I would only ask one question for you nrk: how do you gauge your leather? Do yo use an actual gauge or some other method? If you aren't using an official gauge then your may have actually received the correct weight of leather but a lower grade of leather may not be as accurate from the splitting process.

[25b]

I think the "full grain is superior to top grain" propaganda is just marketing hooey put out by saddleback leather, in my opinion. I doubt any serious leatherworker pays any attention to "dave's" marketing verbiage......I know I don't.

[25b]

I just make sure in my own sales sites to blatantly point out the myths that guy spews out and actual facts that denounce his garbage. Most of what he says is so wrong, it's embarrassing that he's actually putting out lies like that. You're right in that a lot of customers see that stuff he posts and his silly youtube videos, but I hope when they finally look at my items they will be able to see how much better they are than his stuff. I used to think their items were really nice.......that is, until I started making my own leathergoods. Now I know better.

Edited December 11, 2014 by 25b