Would Appreciate Your Advise On Restoring This Singer 45K25

[Colt W Knight]

Constabulary - Those old decals are generally cellulose based film, and get very brittle with age. Vintage model folks use some solutions to restore the old decals to apply them to new old stock models.

[jimi]

This was the first machine we bought 20yrs ago for 12€ treadle included from a retired cobbler.

the only machine i have repainted is the pfaff because the paint was quite bad all-round and the old 45k1 has a touch up on the flatbed part because there was no paint left. then i used shellack again to revive the dull paint. and i left the original decals on(what was left of them).

Sorry Evo no more machines for those "old cast iron lovers"

For your machine Evo i would do the same as constabulary, repaint and decal as it looks like someone has repainted this already because there are no decals present.first i would get it to sew, then take off all the possible parts for cleaning, this machine does not have a lot of complicated parts on it as you will see. i personally would not take off any main axles etc. take pictures or draw parts and positions to be sure you know where they will go afterwards. i put the parts in groups in small bags, that way the screws dont get mixed up or lost. i think i have seen a badge like the one you have somewhere else before. i think this was just a numbering system used in a big factory on their machines to keep an inventory of them etc.. there was one on internet a few months back with a similar badge. you were lucky to find the roller wheel present on your machine, they came in three sizes i think. that is the only difference between the 45k21 and the 45k25, one came with a presser foot and the other came with a roller foot. and if you are going to look for a treadle for this remember they are bigger and more sturdier than the normal domestic ones, also they have a small arm underneath to support the weight of the machine due to the cutaway in the table.

[Evo160K]

Jimi, Constabulary, Colt W Knight,

Thank you for your valuable information and advise. You fine people are making it possible for me to move forward with this small project. Without your guidance, an attempt at restoring this machine would be almost impossible for a novice like me, for sure it could be far more costly.

Colt, your custom decal tutorial is terrific.....great detail. Thank you. Do you think it's practical to lay gold leaf between the machine and the decal to get the factory effect? Did they use gold leaf? If not, it might be a rich touch.

Constabulary, thank you for helping me along, you've been very encouraging. My Claes is turning out quite well, thanks in large part to you.

Jimi, seeing your wonderful restorations has been a treat as well as an inspiration. For sure I'll be incorporating your advice

into my project. Thank you.

[Constabulary]

If you can't find a new plate I´d try to heat the bend / cracked era with a blow torch (or similar) and hammer it back and hard solder the crack (not with a soldering iron). If you have no blow torch ask a plumber or black smith in your era.

I have seen this on some flat bed Adler 4 needle plates, they even had replaced the broken off piece entirely with silver solder and drilled a new needle hole. So it is not impossible!

[Evo160K]

Thanks Constabulary. I will have our local machine shop add material to the plate, so I can reform the hole for the needle. Speaking of solder, I think silver solder was used on the feed dog, because when I went to clean up the teeth, the metal came off much to easily for steel. The toe of the foot also looks like a blob of something, I'll need to see how hard it is.

[Constabulary]

Constabulary - Those old decals are generally cellulose based film, and get very brittle with age. Vintage model folks use some solutions to restore the old decals to apply them to new old stock models.

I have not noticed your post earlier - sorry!

What is kind of solution is it? Do you have more information?

[Colt W Knight]

I have not noticed your post earlier - sorry!

What is kind of solution is it? Do you have more information?

Here is product specifically designed to restore old decals that have set in the open air or sunlight. You brush it on, and let it sit for about 20 minutes.

http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MI-12&Category_Code=FINPROD&Product_Count=6

Literature from Microscale - Everyone should have Micro Liquid Decal Film who models and uses decals. Especially if you have been at it for some time. The typical decal scrap box is not the best place to store decals. Exposed to air, sunlight, and moisture, great swings of temperature or general abuse, and decals will go bad. Or maybe you just always had trouble putting on thin stripes. Micro Liquid Decal Film solves all of those problems and makes a decal which for whatever reason is bad, work again just like new almost immediately. Of course if you have already put it in water it is too late. So if you have some old decals you really have to use, coat them with Micro Liquid Decal Film to be sure. Or if there is any indication that you might have a problem, don't take a chance, you can solve the problem on the spot. Simply take a small brush and coat the image on the decal you want to use. Allow to dry for 20 minutes. Apply the decal as usual. It's that simple.

*I do not know this for a fact, but the vintage guitar folks all swear that microscale decal setting solution is just watered down white vinegar. I have applied a lot of waterslide decals, and I use vinegar on them all after application and it really feathers the edges in well. If you have enough decals or some edges you can cut off, you can always test it out.

Here is a link for the pair of solutions

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/221200208781?lpid=82

Edited November 24, 2014 by Colt W Knight

[Constabulary]

I see! Problem is that my original Singer decals have the transfer paper on the top side so I think the setting solution could be an option.

I also googled a bit and found an interesting post ins modeler forum here is an extract:

Finally sometimes on really old decals the adhesive is so old that it will not stick to the surface. In this instance, you need to replace the adhesive. This is done by making a diluted solution of white glue and water (75% glue 25% water) brush this on just before and sometimes after application of the decal. After the decal has set a bit you can then apply any and all to the setting solution to allow the decal to snuggle down. It will look milky at first, but it will dry clear.

I also got the hint that I should try acrylic / water based hardwood floor finish.

I´ll order the solution set after I have tried the 2 above options as I have both available.

Maybe I´ll ruin the decals but I just have paid few bucks for them. But I´ll keep 2 or 3 no matter what happens as this is something you´ll probably will never find again. But if it work I´ll repaint my machines (sooner or later) an put the original decals on them.

[Colt W Knight]

I have used white glue and water before, but I only ever put a few drops of white glue in a bowl of warm water. Then I placed the decal in the solution for 20 seconds of so, then moved it onto the substrate.

[Evo160K]

While doing some initial cleaning in the shuttle area, I noticed something rough and brown, like dried molasses, further in. It appeared to be a hard, dried "glue like" material between the 91430 shuttle race ring (not the race, the ring) and the cast iron body of the machine.

Is that actually a glue that's supposed to be there, or is it dried oil or some other substance that's not supposed to be there? Thanks in advance.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Evo160K

[Constabulary]

In general they did not use glue - this must be hardened oil or grease. I had a lot of that stuff on my 133K3 which I either scratches off with a flat screw driver or the cleaning solution washed it away after a few attempts. But sometimes I still find little spots but thats like gray hair - you think you don`t have them but suddenly it´s there.

[jimi]

it should be as clean as a whistle and with some clean oil.

[Evo160K]

Thank you Constabulary, Jimi.

It was somewhat of a shock to see that ring of "glue" in there! Here's a phenomenally well engineered and constructed piece of fine machinery from the 1940's with beautifully machined fasteners, and a piece is held with "glue?" I couldn't accept it. Thanks for setting my anxiety to rest.

Jimi, what type and size of thread is in the bobbin in your picture above?

Thanks again to you both.

[Colt W Knight]

Sounds like old grease from the description.

[Evo160K]

Thanks Colt.

I was hoping that was the case. Constabulary agrees with you.

[jimi]

Hi Evo, needle size160/23, thread is nylon bonded size T210 #207. here is a picture of the stitches through two layers of veg tan 2mm each.

Edited December 4, 2014 by jimi

[Evo160K]

Thanks for the info Jimi, stitches look great to me.

I'm amazed at how clean and bright the metal is on your K25. What's the part number of the material guide you're using?

Thanks Jimi

[jimi]

you can see this one and others in the link for the parts manuals on the first page of this topic. (dixiesewing)

you will be amazed what a wire brush could do??

i can upload come more material guides if you like? regards jimi

Edited December 4, 2014 by jimi

[Evo160K]

Thanks Jimi. A material guide is on my want list. Hopefully I'll come across one somewhere on the planet.

[Evo160K]

It's been difficult to restore this noble old machine, particularly since it's my first Singer.. Those of you who restore the older machines know exactly how tuff it is to find parts.

I just posted a bunch of Singer and Adler parts that I acquired in the Marketplace (used) forum in hopes of swapping them for 45K25 parts. Would you please take a look and see if I have anything you need or you have something I need. Perhaps you know of someone else who may need or have parts to trade or sell. I'm particularly anxious to find the Singer Oil Box, p/n 91797, .

Thank you very much. Any assistance or leads you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

[jimi]

Hi Al, you might find a material guide and needle plate etc... here? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151519462940?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited January 17, 2015 by jimi

[Evo160K]

Thanks Jimi, I appreciate your thinking of me. I'll contact the seller immediately.

My most urgent need now is the Singer 91797 Oil Box. That's been eluding me.

Check you PM for something you and I discussed, you may find it interesting.

Best regards

Al

[Evo160K]

This fine old machine is gradually beginning to make some sense, recall I'm new to sewing machines. At this point in the restoration, I would like to understand the theory and the relationship of the presser foot, the roller presser and the pressure adjustment on the presser bar.

I've set the direction of the presser foot (with the roller up), so the material feeds straight by itself, with the least amount of pressure on the foot and without marking the leather. Is that much correct?

So, how does the roller work? Should the direction the wheel rolls be straight forward or angled? I've tried different directions and pressures, but can't seem to get the foot and roller together to feed straight without being guided. Yes, I know, the material is normally guided, and maybe the roller is supposed to turn the material, I don't know. That's why I want to understand what's going on with it all and how to adjust it the best I can. If there were some surviving setup instructions for these old machines, that I could lay my hands on, I wouldn't be asking all of these questions.

Thank you for putting up with them, and thank you for sharing your insight.

[Constabulary]

I´m not exactly sure what you mean. You of course have to guide the material no matter which foot is installed.

What means "with the roller up" - have you installed roller foot + regular presser foot together?

[Evo160K]

This machine had previously been used to repair athletic equipment......football pads, helmets and such. When I bought it recently, the roller presser and the right hand presser foot were both attached. That's all that came with it, no other parts or instructions. You'll note that particular feed dog has two rows of teeth with the roller being over the left row and the presser foot over the right row. That made sense and I assumed that setup was correct. I didn't know differently, so that's how I've been adjusting/restoring the machine. Image 3201shows the roller rotated up.

How are the roller, presser foot and pressure adjustment used? I'm particularly interested in understanding the theory and the adjustment of the roller. Thank you very much for your help.

Btw, you may have seen how the presser foot has been ground down on the left side. I just realized the previous owner must have done that so the roller had enough room to operate along side of it. They had also stacked another, shorter spring on top of the pressure spring, apparently to increase the total pressure on the foot/roller/material.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Evo160K