Singer 29D 60 ... No Typo

[alexitbe]

Does anyone know anything about this patcher? I have just found one in working order, very cheap and wondere'd why the "D"?

I am in Germany (Deutschland), if that is relevent.

Here's a picture...

[cdthayer]

I believe that the “D” (and the Singer Badge) indicates that the machine was made in the Singer factory in Wittenberge, Prussia.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

Its actually a pre 1945 made in Germany Singer 29. It already has a removable gear box and a helical spring in the head instead of the large blade spring at the back of the arm. It has the larger bobbin as well. Singer produced sewing machines in Wittenberge / Prussia until the Russians disassembled the Singler plant and took it to Russia as war reparation. Singer again started producing sewing machines in West Germany / Karlsruhe in the 1950´s but then the Prefix was G = Germany because the K (Karlsruhe) was in use for the Kilbowie (Scottland) plant already.

Seems to be in a nice condition - check how long the stitches are when adjusted to 5 SPI.

How much is it?

Better choice than your former 29K!

Edited December 16, 2014 by Constabulary

[alexitbe]

Thanks Guys,

Its a hundred Euro. ..I am not sure whether to go for it yet. Thankfully its close buy, unlike the last one.

Cheers

Alex

[shoepatcher]

That is the first Singer shoepatcher I have seen with the "D" in the model number and that is almost 40 years working on shoepatchers. I assume the D indicated Deutschland. To my knowledge, the Singer shoepatcher was only made in Elizabethport, NJ; Kilbowie, Scotland; and Japan. Obviously, that is no true. See if you can get more pics of it. If I were you, I would buy for $ 100 Euros if for nothing more, it is rare. I would think all the 29K60 parts should be the same. Any books available with it.

glenn

[Wizcrafts]

It looks a lot like my 29k172, except mine is blue and made in Japan.

[alexitbe]

Thanks for the replies...

I don't know if there are any books with it, but if so it will be in Old Deutsche and the new one is hard enough.

I am not really interested in buying it just, because it is rare. It is more important that it works and it works reasonably well.

I do not understand the comment about checking the stitch length at 5 spi. Surely it will be 1/5" ? Or am I missing something? Also, I am not sure that there will be a stitch length controller with 5 SPI on it, so how will I know?

May I ask about the 29k172? What are the important or standout features? Is it a development of the 29k60?

I will go and see it. Apart from trying to sew a piece of leather with it, is there anything else I should check?

Thanks

Alex

[Constabulary]

Hi Alex,

well, the old patchers are often worn because there are a lot of mechanical parts rubbing against each other in the head and therefore it is possible that the stitch length is no longer 5 per inch. So when you adjust it to 5 SPI and you measure the stitches and is below 6 spi (approx. 4mm) you can be sure it is quite worn. But if you can deal with that and 4mm stitches are okay for you - why not.

But due to its optical condition I think it is a good one and stitches are fine but I´d check it anyway.

The stitch length is indicated here:

Put some cardboard under the feet make 10 stitches (w/o thread) and measure how many stitches you have per inch. Everything above 6 spi / 4mm is a good score.

100€ is a bargain for this machine!

[Wizcrafts]

May I ask about the 29k172? What are the important or standout features? Is it a development of the 29k60?

Thanks

Alex

The 29k172 is the Last Of The Mohicans in the Singer patcher line. It has a removable gear box, long arm and large bobbin. The long rack inside the arm is adjustable via an eccentric inside the lower part of the body. It is used to set the timing of the hook.

The take-up lever has a threaded barrel inside the trapeze on top. That adjuster affects the minimum lifting height of the take-up lever. I find this useful for getting the best stitch in thick or thin leather, or leather that has been held together with double sided tape. Thin leather without tape doesn't need much help from the adjuster.

The adjuster has numbers starting at 0, representing how high the lever is forced to raise on the up stroke. Thicker or sticky leather or vinyl definitely benefits from turning it between #2 to #3.This causes more thread to be presented for the next stitch. It seems to help preserve the loop that might otherwise dissolve too soon.

This adjuster on an Adler 30 is labeled Dick and Dorf (thick and thin), I think.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[shoepatcher]

Alexitbe,

Are you able to get any more pics of the machine?

glenn

[alexitbe]

Sorry this will be a quick one as have just checked in before I go to bed.

Wizcraft: Thanks for the really detailed information about that model. I guess I can only hope that this 29D60 is something similar.

Constabulary: Thanks for the picture, I am now able to follow what you said.

Glenn: I will go and view the machine on Friay, so I won't bother with asking for more pics. If I see it sewing, then I will take it. If not, then I shall leave it.

Cheers

alex

[alexitbe]

Just a quick update: I bought it.

I have just brought it home tonight via the train. Hae given it a quick spray with Wd40, before doing a real clean in the next few days. I also have something much better, which I have just recieved from our good friend Constab.

I don't know why Wizcraft suggested that particular model but I think he is correct. It is the large bobbin and from my Singer 29k71,72,73 service manual the bobbin and shuttle is the same as the 72 and not the other two. The bobbin is threaded differently to the other two also.. Very good guess.

Another thing, thanks to Constab, I checked the stitch length and was a little surprised. In contrast to his it decreases as you go up and it starts at 4.5 and finishes at 2. The stitches follow this too, mybe not in absolute size but in icnreasing and decreasing.

So I think this machine is a quite light weight patcher, mainly from the maximum short stitch length.

I will place pictures up over the next few days. I will slowly clean it properly, but in a peace-meal fashion.

It came with really old looking needles by lammertz. The 88L system size 3 and 6. I don't know what any of that means yet. I will post a picture of the paper packet they came in as it is terribly old fashioned. Almost Edwardian...

Cheers

Alex

[Wizcrafts]

Once you clean and lube it, then replace any badly worn parts, you are going to love the machine. Just remember that it is a patcher, not a production machine and not a holster machine either.

The correct needle systems are 29x4 or 135x16. The original design of the 29x4 is no longer made. Now, everybody has switched to 135x16 needles. Also, don't break it by using thick thread. Stay with T90 or T70. Needle sizes 100, 110 and 120 and 125 should handle those thread sizes just fine.

[alexitbe]

A quick upate:

Well I have it roughly cleaned an lubricated. I have tightened a few things here and there.

I am currently testing it on cloth, but am using the leather needles that came with it. Will this be a problem?

Initially, the lower thread was being pulled through the material very convincingly.

After testing the thension of the thread and the bobbin, with the foot down( That took a while ), I realised the bobbin tenstion was too low. I sorted the bobbin tension out an it is quite strong now and is as strong than the top.

However, It does not sew as expected. For the first 4-6 stitches the tension is fine, but then slowly the lower thread begins to be pulled through. This has happened on every single attempt. The stitch length is set to its longest setting and is about 3.5-4 mm

I wanted to have everything near the middle of its settings, as it is very old an has probably been messed around with peopl who don't know anything. ie by people like me

So, I have adjusted the take-up lever. There is one whole thread showing before the locking nut. It seems to be where other people on youtube have it. I have currently set it to 0 or 1 for light work. The thread remains taut until the needle enters the fabric and then it is slack again. I notice that the tension between the take-up lever an the tension regulator can become very stiff after a few stitches. I guess this is why it pulls the bottom thread through? I do not know why this would happen.

I don't really want to disassemble it just yet, until it is working satisfactorily. Do you think I should do it in anycase?

Thaks for any advice.

Alex

[cdthayer]

Alex, it sounds to me like the tension screw in your shuttle is backing off on its own as you sew. I have one like that for my 1943 Singer 29K70. The screw won’t stay where I set it. I switched to a different shuttle until I can figure something out on it.

It’s not a split screw that can be spread with a narrow knife blade like some shuttles and bobbin cases have, so I’m trying to figure out some other way to increase drag on the screw.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

@ CD

I know there is not much thread but maybe a bit of loctite

[cdthayer]

I’ve wondered about using Loctite on it. I haven’t used the stuff much, but I understand that one color hardens and another color is supposed to stay softer. I think I’ll dig through my parts bins for a replacement screw before I use any gunk in it. The hook on it is still in fair shape, so I’d like to get some more use out of it if I can. I generally only use one size of thread in this machine, so even if the “soft” stuff seizes the screw in place over time, I could probably still use the shuttle. I just wouldn’t be able to remove the spring to clean under it or replace it.

But for Alex, he might only have the one shuttle to work with, so he’d probably like to hear from someone that has had success with it. That is, if he discovers that his tension screw is backing off like mine is. When I start a sewing line the stitch looks good, and then slowly I can see the lower thread begin appearing more and more until the top thread is a straight line and the bottom thread becomes loops. When I remove the shuttle, the tension screw is loose.

CD in Oklahoma

[Constabulary]

You of course have to be careful with this stuff and it is for sure not the best idea I ever had but it is at least an idea. And I agree - replacing the screw will probably do the job!

[cdthayer]

I've got to find the right screw first.....

Thanks for your idea. It may be the way I have to go on this.

CD in Oklahoma

[Darren Brosowski]

I believe that you will find that the serial number was issued by Kilbowie as they cast the body and made the parts but the D represents the factory that assembled it.

Does anyone know anything about this patcher? I have just found one in working order, very cheap and wondere'd why the "D"?

I am in Germany (Deutschland), if that is relevent.

Here's a picture...

Singer29D60Label.JPG

Singer29D60.JPG

[alexitbe]

Thank everyone and sorry for neglecting this thread... I have, however, not been neglecting the Singer. I have been working hard on it to try and finish it for Friday...

I, basically, used the other shuttle I have and filled up the spool and tightened the tension spring as much as possible. It seemed to do the trick. I shall post picks of what it did shortly. Strangely, the length of the stitches increased with the thicker material.

The reality of the whole saga was, I fiddled and adjusted things. Cleaned and sprayed with oil and it still didn't work. I came the following mornig and it was stiching fine. Must have good pixies in the cellar.. However, I don't reallyu know what did the trick.

So after getting ti to stitch ok, I decided to take it apart.... Bugger! I am stuck at removing the pivot pins of the take up lever and one or two others. I have not been aboe to shift them for almost two days so have order a bike chain tool, which should do the job. So I can relax until it arrives on Monday.

All other bits and pieces are clean. I shall order one or two things from college sewing in the UK.

Pictures shortly

[Constabulary]

The pins are slightly conical / tapered. Usually the pins go out from back to front - don´t try to tap them from front to back as you will drive them in and not out and you will probably damage parts!!!! You do not need special tools for that.

[alexitbe]

Hi Constablulary,

Thanks for the reply. I went and checked on my other machine and one pins just eased out with light pressure and the other did not shift at all... I guess its just clogged with 100 years of gunk.

My bike tool arrieved and it needs some moification in order to work. I could not wait until Monday, so I tried heating with a soldering iron in the hope that some expansion will loosen things abit when it cools... It worke on the pin for the take up lever, but not for the needle bar pin... So I must remain patient..

For those that are interested there is a resotration blog on the 29k with lots of pics here : http://northants-restoration.blogspot.de/2011/09/setting-timing-on-assembly.html

Scroll down to the bottom to see all the ifferent posts.

Alex

[shoepatcher]

Alexitbe,
Your 29D60 has two following pinions instead of one following pinion and a short rack gear which is on the 29K60. Timing will be like timing a 29K51 which also had three gears but they were much smaller and had much finer teeth. Only difference I see in your 29D60 vs. 29K60.

glenn

[alexitbe]

Thanks for that information Glenn. I will confirm it with a photo, if I can get the bloody screws off. However, I have been trying to do that since I got it before Christmas and its completely outsmarted me... so far.

Does anyone use grease on these things? All I see mentioed is oil, but to me, the parts like cogs, foot lift bar, revolving bush and hinge pins should have a dab of grease....

cheers

Alex