Problems With 441 Clone

[neke]

Hi,

Just received my 441 clone from Sieck, they call it Type 441 K ( http://www.sieck.de/en/machines/new-arrivals/details/5624/ ), and it should be with same specs as Cowboy CB3200.

I'm having severe problems to set it up. Attached are two pics showing current results, with and without thread and from both sides.

The needle is the one that came with the machine, and it should be Schmetz 794D. Thread is coded as P/B-4556-93 and it should be somewhat same thickness as 277 in US.

Any ideas what's going on and how to overcome?

[Constabulary]

Do you mean the round marking on the bottom side? You probably have too much pressure on the foot.

May I ask how much you have paid for the machine w/o shipping? Have you bought just the head or complete with motor table and speed reducer?

[JLSleather]

That actually doesn't look that far off. The circles would be a combination of foot pressure and "smooshy" leather (probably not possible to entirely eliminate this effect).

Beyond that, the holes look quite large for the thread... try larger thread or smaller needle.

[Northmount]

Once you get the right thread, needle and foot pressure combination, the backside will look a lot better. You can also tap the back side with a flat faced hammer to help smooth it out. Sometimes a little moisture before tapping the back helps. The backside never looks as good as the top side.

Tom

Also look at http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html thread/needle chart suggestions.

[neke]

Hello,

Do you mean the round marking on the bottom side? You probably have too much pressure on the foot.

May I ask how much you have paid for the machine w/o shipping? Have you bought just the head or complete with motor table and speed reducer?

Bought it complete with table, motor and speed reducer. 1950€ + VAT. Without shipping.

That actually doesn't look that far off. The circles would be a combination of foot pressure and "smooshy" leather (probably not possible to entirely eliminate this effect).

Beyond that, the holes look quite large for the thread... try larger thread or smaller needle.

Have tried it on several pieces of leather with different thickness and quality, with same results..

Once you get the right thread, needle and foot pressure combination, the backside will look a lot better. You can also tap the back side with a flat faced hammer to help smooth it out. Sometimes a little moisture before tapping the back helps. The backside never looks as good as the top side.

Tom

Also look at http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html thread/needle chart suggestions.

Yeah, I agree that the holes look too big for the thread.. The different standards mean trouble, nobody in here will understand the US sizes. For example, the thickest thread they sell for shoemakers is size 10, which is equivalent to a #277, but they didn't have that in white.. The thread I got is a bit thicker, with mystic code P/B-4556-93... I think it'd be easier to buy the needles & threads with same numbering system from Ebay... Also haven't yet found a dealer selling needles for 441s in Finland.

But thanks anyways, I'll try to find a smaller needle and try with that. The quest is on.

Edited January 2, 2015 by neke

[Trevor]

Neke.

The thread that you are using looks like braided thread. I would never or not often use braided in a machine. Normal machine thread is laid or twisted thread. The "D" needle is too big as well. I use a 250 X 794 for M8 or Tex350 but if you have smaller thread then definitely a smaller needle.

Also a "D" is a horrible point to use try getting some LR style 794's. And always use a smaller thread underneath.

There was a stitch style chart a couple of days ago someone posted. Have a look at the different styles that are available and try a different thread.

Good luck

Trevor

"Way Down Under"

[Constabulary]

For 794 needles check College Sewing in the UK

https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/catalog/search.aspx?keywords=794

[neke]

Neke.

The thread that you are using looks like braided thread. I would never or not often use braided in a machine. Normal machine thread is laid or twisted thread. The "D" needle is too big as well. I use a 250 X 794 for M8 or Tex350 but if you have smaller thread then definitely a smaller needle.

Also a "D" is a horrible point to use try getting some LR style 794's. And always use a smaller thread underneath.

There was a stitch style chart a couple of days ago someone posted. Have a look at the different styles that are available and try a different thread.

Good luck

Trevor

"Way Down Under"

Hi Trevor.

The thread was sold to me specifically as a machine thread, and they apparently use it for saddlery work & saddle bags etc. that requires stronger thread. It has some kind of a core thread and top layer is siliconized for easier sewing through thick layers of leather.

[msdeluca]

The needle looks huge for the thread size. I agree with previous posters... smaller needle or thicker thread.

[Singermania]

Yes the lads are correct, your thread must really be slopping around in the eye of the needle, there are lots of downloadable needle/thread charts available on the net. regards