Problems With 441 Clone

[neke]

Thanks for all, smaller needle did the trick. Also, it helped a lot when I received the correct feed dog and presser foot. For some reason, the machine was equipped with fabric foot & dog, and no alternative parts included...

[catskin]

As for the always use smaller thread on the bottom, That makes no sense your stitches are only as strong as the weakest thread so you are wasting good thread on top by putting weak thread on the bottom. To get good stitches use the same thread top and bottom. Just adjust your machine to work that way and you will have next to no trouble with thread tension or stitching even when you change thread sizes because they are proportionatly the same.

[Singermania]

Its normal practise to use one size lighter thread on the bottom, if I recall rightly some machine manuals like the Pearson no 6 will suggest this. So if on top you have 277 you'd go with 207 on the bottom and use a 200 LR needle, not aware of saddlers using the D here in Australia. I was only an upholsterer and motor and boat trimmer so pretty much always used the same thread top and bottom... so can only tell you what the saddlers and harness makers here do.

[catskin]

I have only 40 years of sewing harness so can't compare with you experts. But what I do know is I seem to have a lot less trouble getting good stitches and even thread tensions then the people on here who are using different sizes top and bottom.

[Wizcrafts]

I almost always use the same size thread on top and bottom.

[Singermania]

OUCH... nobody including myself coming onto this forum would call themselves 'experts', what we are, are people prepared to give a little time to try to help, nobody gets paid, nobody is correct 100% of the time, these are opinions that we give, nobody want to get shot down. The reader can then take in all the 'offerings' and form their own view. Although I am not a saddler or harness maker, I buy and sell a lot of machines over a considerable range, people will either ask me or tell me what thread or threads should be in a particular machine, that was how I came to my opinion above. Regards Steve

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Some machines are made to run a size lighter thread on the bottom. It tells you right in the manual. With many items of horse equipment, the top side receives more wear/friction, so using a heavier thread on the top side makes sense. Also, with an item such as a harness trace, you can channel your bottom side if using a machine that will take a channeler, and the lighter thread lays in the channel better. Being completely hidden, the thread will not wear through until the surface of the leather wears to the level of the bottom of the channel. That's a LOT of wear, and most harness doesn't get used that heavily today. It just depends on which machine I'm using at any given time, and what I'm sewing. Sometimes I use the same size top and bottom, sometimes a size lighter on the bottom. I say there's no hard and fast rule, and I'm not an expert. Just 23 years in the harness and saddlery business full time, and over 35 since picking up my first tool. However, I'll be the first to admit, years don't mean anything if you've been doing something wrong all those years:-)

[Wizcrafts]

There are a lot of times when I use a size smaller on the bottom. One in particular is on 9 - 10 oz belts when I add decorative edge stitching. I'll use 207 on the bottom and 277 on top. Once I get to a quarter inch I usually run the same size on both sides, for added strength per stitch. This is especially true for the holsters I sew. I go out of my way to tell the customer how many pounds of strength each stitch possesses.

[catskin]

Okay you guys are right, it depends on the job. But I do stand by the fact it seems to me that I have a LOT less trouble getting good stitches and rarely have to touch thread tensions when changing thickness of leather or thread sizes compared to the people on here that keep asking how to make good stitches when they are using different thread sizes.

I was just letting it be known that there are some of us that can and DO get good results with same sizes top and bottom. I can go from 138 to 346 on my cowboy 4500 without touching thread tensions and get good tight stitches. I guess some people understand their machines better then others, just as I could not carve a piece if my life depended on it and some could do it with their eyes closed.

[Darren Brosowski]

With an open frame shuttle I tend to have less problem balancing tensions with the same size threads but in Australia the general rule amongst saddlers is to run one size smaller on the bottom.

Theories on sewing vary from country to country and person to person. My personal opinion is that you are going to run into lots of wear problems using bonded nylon rather than High Tenacity Polyester but what would I know when I have to repair the damage to machines every day.