Awl Question Related To Saddle Stitch

[Invasion]

After a long break from leather working - due to illness- I’ve been trying to get my stitching improved…and have a question about using your Awl.

When trying to create traditional English saddle stitch; how far do you guys push your awls through the work piece? I have been going through just enough to get needles and thread to pass. Yesterday I was looking at some stitching on Nigel Armitage’s video on a saddle stitched belt and noticed that he seems to go through a lot more and has much bigger holes than I do….is this where I am making my mistake perhaps ??

Im now thinking bigger holes would also help with the thread laying properly and add to the desired angled saw tooth look of stitches???

I’ve attached a scrap sample of my stitching which I am pleased with but should holes be bigger ??

Appreciate any input on this

[oltoot]

Your work looks very good but yes larger holes would make it even better plus, with most awl blades it is easier to get a uniform size with going deeper and using the full size portion of the blade.

[DavidL]

it would be best to choose how large a hole you want on the backside first and decide the size of awl that can make that hole pushed all the way through. You may need to test out different awls, threads (round + braided of different sizes), leathers of diff. thickness till you can see the differences in the stitching. In my experience mushy leathers don't stitch well(harder to keep consistent angles), the harder the better. anything in the middle like combination tan, stiffer chrome tan also works well.

.58-.65mm round thread, 7 spi, stiff veg tan/horween/kangaroo veg(provide similar stitching vs softer pliable leathers), 38mm awl (3mm thickness) works well for me, although i been wanting to try a slightly larger awl too.

If you like I could post pics if you want to see the difference. Your stitching looks good. if you want the stitch more angled use a larger awl or smaller thread at the same size awl. Are you using a dixon iron? Im starting to believe that the newer dixons are made with larger prongs to stitch .6mm-1mm tiger thread. The .6mm tiger thread is nearly double the size of .6mm round thread, needing more room to get the same angle.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

I agree with oltoot, your stitching looks very nice... Most of the time, I push the awl through to the fat part of the blade, a shorter blade 1 1/2" will help achieve more consistency...

If I do not need to penetrate fully, I will push the blade through to the desired thickness and mark the blade with a marker so I can be at the same depth each time...

[Invasion]

Your work looks very good but yes larger holes would make it even better plus, with most awl blades it is easier to get a uniform size with going deeper and using the full size portion of the blade.

Thanks I appreciate your kind comments on my work I think maybe I'm getting a bit obsessed with stitching ill try using more of the blade

it would be best to choose how large a hole you want on the backside first and decide the size of awl that can make that hole pushed all the way through. You may need to test out different awls, threads (round + braided of different sizes), leathers of diff. thickness till you can see the differences in the stitching. In my experience mushy leathers don't stitch well(harder to keep consistent angles), the harder the better. anything in the middle like combination tan, stiffer chrome tan also works well.

.58-.65mm round thread, 7 spi, stiff veg tan/horween/kangaroo veg(provide similar stitching vs softer pliable leathers), 38mm awl (3mm thickness) works well for me, although i been wanting to try a slightly larger awl too.

If you like I could post pics if you want to see the difference. Your stitching looks good. if you want the stitch more angled use a larger awl or smaller thread at the same size awl. Are you using a dixon iron? Im starting to believe that the newer dixons are made with larger prongs to stitch .6mm-1mm tiger thread. The .6mm tiger thread is nearly double the size of .6mm round thread, needing more room to get the same angle.

Thanks fro kind comment on stitching that would be great if you could post pics

my awl is 3mm thickness at is widest point and I am using 0.8 tiger thread. I am also using a no 7 dixon iron prongs are about 2mm wide

One thing I don't like when pushed through further, it seems to look messy on back, more cut than rather than spreading leather apart (if that makes sense)

I agree with oltoot, your stitching looks very nice... Most of the time, I push the awl through to the fat part of the blade, a shorter blade 1 1/2" will help achieve more consistency...

If I do not need to penetrate fully, I will push the blade through to the desired thickness and mark the blade with a marker so I can be at the same depth each time...

thanks for comment about stitching That makes sense using a shorter awl, to achieve more consistency, and good tip on using a marker

thanks for everyones input

Edited January 9, 2015 by Invasion

[DavidL]

Back side needs a bit of attention, less tension to prevent puckering along side using a poly board over the tree stump I use while hitting the holes .. right needle goes to the top hole and move the loop (thread closest to me in the loop) over the needle and away from me. Alternatively you could put the needle top of the hole and under the loop, no need to actually throw the thread over or if you prefer to put the right needle bottom of the hole . All three ways for me give the exact same stitch.

.58mm thread

7 spi dixon - reprofiled

3mm wide awl

horween leather back side, calf skin front

Edited January 9, 2015 by DavidL

[Invasion]

Thanks for the pictures really appreciated and helpful

I did to test samples today. one using the full length and width (3mm) of Awl and the other just enough to get needles in.For me using it just enough gave cleaner looking results on the back.

thanks again

[Eccho]

On the Armitage Leather video he does mention that he has most of the awl blade tucked inside the haft, and that only the tip is sharpened to cut. The rest is pushed through only to enlarge the hole, but not cut it any further.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

The "secret" to saddle stitching is consistency in the creation of the stitch --- I have seen Nigel stitch in round holes and the stitch row looked fantastic. There are many different methods and tools used to create the holes for stitching, and all can look good if the stitching is done properly... If you learn the little "half-knot trick" he does it will help immensely...

[Invasion]

On the Armitage Leather video he does mention that he has most of the awl blade tucked inside the haft, and that only the tip is sharpened to cut. The rest is pushed through only to enlarge the hole, but not cut it any further.

I have taken the sharpness off on the edges off my Awl; just after the tip. so in theory it would pierce the leather with sharp tip then stretch the hole bigger, rather than cut. it sis still diamond shaped but not so angular - if that makes sense ??

[DavidL]

That sounds about right invasion.

Another thing, slightly off topic is that on nearly every material that was very soft (think suede) nearly none will have a proper angled stitch or even stitching when casting the thread. The hole closes up smaller as it has more stretch than oil or veg tan. The casting of the thread may create more tension too that is bad for soft leathers.

while stitching thin leathers like suede the only acceptable stitch is without casting in my experience.

[todahatelier]

Wow. I learn so much by reading your sharing. Thank you all for sharing knowledge and willing to impart knowledge. 

@Invasion I must say your stitching looks realllll good. 

I’ve just started going into the hand awl technique and figuring out why some of my stitches isn’t straight. Is it because of the way I punched my awl in or the length of the awl I’m pushing in? Anyone have advised on how to improve on the straightness of the stitches? 

[todahatelier]

I’ve attached some of my products back view. 

[fredk]

1. visit this thread;

2. straightness, or lack of, can be caused by the rhythm of the stitching. ie, left needle thru first, then the right, left  needle, then right, If you occasionally do left, right, right, left, right, left, left, right the lay of the threads will not be constant and will look raggedly

[chrisash]

Vergez Blanchard offer a selection of Diamond awl blades in various thickness to make either a thin hole or larger also very sharp out of the box

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/592891537/diamond-awl-vergez-blanchard-in-5?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=VB stitching awl&ref=sr_gallery-1-17&organic_search_click=1 

Sorry this advert only shows the length of the aws available but Vergez Blanchard do offer a selection of thickness of the blade as well, just not shown on the link above

Edited October 7, 2018 by chrisash

[todahatelier]

@fredk

thanks for the link and the pointers. I’ll go and try them out. Appreciate it! 

[todahatelier]

On 07/10/2018 at 5:49 PM, chrisash said:

Vergez Blanchard offer a selection of Diamond awl blades in various thickness to make either a thin hole or larger also very sharp out of the box

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/592891537/diamond-awl-vergez-blanchard-in-5?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=VB stitching awl&ref=sr_gallery-1-17&organic_search_click=1 

Sorry this advert only shows the length of the aws available but Vergez Blanchard do offer a selection of thickness of the blade as well, just not shown on the link above

I am using a Blanchard awl. If i’m Not wrong, it’s the model 1 shown in the Etsy page. 

But I suppose I need to keep practicing.