What Is The Correct Zero Length Position For A 441 Stitch Length Lever?

[amuckart]

you are welcome. Of course youtube.... I wasn´t thinking.

So your machine is running now?

Mostly, but not 100%. Interestingly adjusting it in accordance with Steve's video did not work. I don't know why, I thought Cobra and Cowboy machines were mechanically identical.

The video gave me what I needed to stare at the mechanism while cycling the machine which let me work out what bits did what. Along with the engineering manual I've got the machine sewing cleanly forward and backwards into the same holes but the stitch length is out by about -10-15% across the board. At 11mm I get just under 10mm stitches, and it stops feeding by a needle width at about the 3-4mm setting.

I think I know why this is but I need to play with it some more to be sure.

The correct point for zero on my machine is the centre of the adjustment bar.

Edited March 9, 2015 by amuckart

[Docado]

Hello Amuckart,

Do you by chance have an Artisan Toro 4000 series manual?

I found it on here somewhere. It may be of some help to you.

Docado

[amuckart]

Hello Amuckart,

Do you by chance have an Artisan Toro 4000 series manual?

I found it on here somewhere. It may be of some help to you.

Docado

I didn't, but google found it quickly enough. Thank you for the pointer.

It looks like a rework of the Juki engineers' manual.

[TinkerTailor]

To re-open and perhaps permanently close an old thread:

So, after a little experimenting with my Techsew 5100, which was sewing 8spi in forward and 6spi in reverse out of the box,

I just now backstitched 16 stitches around a curve in the same holes.

I think the stitch-length issues everyone has is due to poor casting tolerances in all the clones in the machine body around the stitch adjuster throwing the angle off. I also believe this is why there are so many issues with the bobbin winder across all the clones. In some machines, the castings are correct and all is good. On others angles and things may be out of wack creating the problems.

My fix? I put 4 pieces of beer box cardboard shim stacked up under the top edge of the stitch adjuster plate on the front of the machine. I loosened the screws and played around with shim thicknesses, test stitching until it was right. Seems to be bang on at most stitch lengths. I measured the thickness the stack of cardboard, for my machine and I need a 0.100" shim. I will make a metal shim for there right shortly. As far as I am concerned, as long as the crucial parts are working, If a shim is needed for a finicky setting like this, so be it.

If I paid double for a real-deal Juki, I would expect it to be perfect. Since I have a clone, I am a little more flexible, as one should be.

I am not a champagne taste, beer budget kinda guy.

This only took 20 mins to do and any munkey can do it without messing with any internal settings.

Edited November 1, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[TinkerTailor]

I am going to start a brand new thread tonight on this topic, including a short tutorial and a few pics. I would also like to start a list of the shim thicknesses that work for different people to see if this is something that is variable from machine to machine, or universal?

[Wizcrafts]

I am going to start a brand new thread tonight on this topic, including a short tutorial and a few pics. I would also like to start a list of the shim thicknesses that work for different people to see if this is something that is variable from machine to machine, or universal?

For my CB4500 it took a standard washer with a 1/4" inside diameter, to correct the fwd/bkwd stitch lengths, plus sometimes re-matching the bottom of the inside foot to the needle making contact with the leather. I'm guessing the washer is about 1/16" thick, or a little less. I frequently recommend this trick, which I was given by Bob Kovar.

[TinkerTailor]

For my CB4500 it took a standard washer with a 1/4" inside diameter, to correct the fwd/bkwd stitch lengths, plus sometimes re-matching the bottom of the inside foot to the needle making contact with the leather. I'm guessing the washer is about 1/16" thick, or a little less. I frequently recommend this trick, which I was given by Bob Kovar.

Yeah, I saw one of your posts with this trick right after i posted this. Same idea, different approach. A washer around the screw is good, and nice and permanent, I basically found the same solution a different way independantly. Great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.

If yours was 1/16, it was a little more than half as thick as the one i used. I just slid cardboard under the top edge. Didnt even need to take out the screw. Made experimenting with thicknesses really fast. Screws have this magnet built in that attracts them to the dustiest corner of the shop the second the last thread is clear. If i can avoid totally removing a screw for anything, I will.

[Art]

Back in the "old" days, you would see flat washers on the top screw (under the wedge) on probably 50% of machines, even Jukis. A good setup would require some adjustment to align the wedge for zero length. Some manufacturers try to get the wedge right, and many machines require zero shimming, but machines are made of stamped and cast parts with error margins that can (but usually don't) add up in the same direction and cause the kind of things you may be experiencing. I have two Highleads that do not have this problem, but the next one may require a little help. Remember that a 441 is kind of the "mack truck" of sewing machines, The clearances and tolerances in the "mack truck" are a lot larger than in a Ford F-150. What I am getting at is that if you set the machine up to specifications, the tolerances can still add-up to some slop. The dealer will have a competent mechanic who works on the same series of machines every day who will know what to look for and know how to compensate. This is why you will hear folks here tell newbies to buy from a dealer. If you have some mechanical aptitude, there is nothing in a 441 that even approaches rocket science. A service manual (different than a users manual) is the greatest help.

Art

[TinkerTailor]

If you have some mechanical aptitude, there is nothing in a 441 that even approaches rocket science. A service manual (different than a users manual) is the greatest help.

Art

It is pretty simple, but with old style mechanisms. Shaft collars, setscrews, belt drives and babbit bearings are 150+ year old tech. Most industries went away from these types of mechanisms 75 years ago because they are hard to setup and maintain. The adjustability compensated for lower tolerances of the day. The problem most people have is that the machines don't come with a usb diagnostic port...... Or to put it another way, it is a different thought process and methodology diagnosing these old style machines. Fine tuning ANYTHING with a screwdriver and your ears/finger sensations is a dying art. I diagnose so many problems in seconds on bicycles by sound and the sensations i get from the parts i am touching. I build wheels by plucking the spokes and making them sound the same, like tuning a guitar. All the young guys use a spoke tension meter. More than once i have won money off of them betting my wheels are straighter than theirs. 10 years building wheels and not one has come back. Can't say the same for others.

Btw, a neat trick i use sometimes to pinpoint bearing problems is to use the wrenchoscope.....I take a wrench, and place one end of it on the machine/bike and cup my hands around the other. I listen to my cupped hands and place the wrench at different points on the bike to listen for things like knocks, grinding bearings, etc. It was shown to me at a young age by an old farmer i worked for.

Edited November 2, 2015 by TinkerTailor

[dikman]

I've done the same trick using a screwdriver, place the blade on the object under scrutiny and stick the handle against your ear-hole! (Don't try it the other way around, not a good idea).