Adler 267 373Gk

[Ole South]

I could use some help sorting the timing/setup on my Adler 267-373GK. I picked it up used but it has little noticeable wear, The hook and basket are snug with virtually no play. The needle bar is tight and the bed only shows some scissor rash, no feed path paint wear.

I've been working on getting it timed correctly. The manual states the hook should be centered on needle at 1.8mm - 2.0mm (depending on subclass) rise after BDC. This doesn't come close to matching Constabulary's 1.6mm above the needle eye (hook too high). I get random skipped stitches with book settings but no drops with Constabulary's timing. The needle does barely deflect as the hook shield passes but is within specs for needle/hook spacing. Unfortunately, all I have are 180/24 needles but the forums indicate this needle will work in this machine and I don't want to move the hook assy until things are resolved.

Okay finally, here is what I think the problem is. I get serious loop resistance about 4 o'clock on the bobbin case (needle is 12 o'clock) after the hook catches the thread. After carefully watching and comparing a couple machines it appears the thread take up arm is rising too soon after hitting it's lowest point. This pulls the thread tight before passing the apex(?) of the bobbin case arc i.e. 4 o'clock instead of 6 or 7 o'clock, The loop flows easily and smoothly around the bobbin case on all my other machines.

What determines take up arm timing? Needle bar height? Am I on the right track here or out in the weeds?

thanks

[Constabulary]

Are you probably using the wrong needle type? Adler 267 needs 134-35 (DPx35) needles afaik. A size 180/24 needles is too thick I´d say. I think 140/22 is the max. recommended by Adler.

I have not worked on a 267 yet. The 1.6mm above the needle eye is where the hook meets the needle scarf on 111 and 227 (Singer 153) type machines with a 135x17 (DPx35) needle in general. This describes the point where the hook catches the loop approx. at its widest point. The rise after BDC at 111 and 227 machines is usually is 2.5mm.

I don´t know how much internal technical difference is between the 111 and the the 267. But seems your manual says 1.8mm - 2.00mm after BDC so I would assume the needle is the problem.

[Ole South]

Gahh, needle systems... so far every time I think I have a handle on them I find I don't.

So, DPx35, 134-(x??)35 and 135x17?!!?

I have on-hand:

135x16DIA, DPx16DIA, 125/20PD

and

135x16DIA, DPX16DIA 180/24

and

135x17, DPx17 130/21

and

135x17, DPx17 90/14

*Sigh* The 180's were what the previous owner was trying to use, probably why he'd only used the machine 5 or 6 times. I'll order some needles and start over. Are the 135x16 (DPX16) longer than the 134-35 (DPx35)?

btw, Trox indicated he's used 180's intermittently in his Adler (if I've read his post right) http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=41621 (I sure wish I could paste a url on this forum.)

Thanks Const!

[Constabulary]

Yah - the different needle systems suck - I fortunately can use 135x17 / 135x16 on all my machines except the 133K.

The 135x17 (for fabric) or 135x16 (for leather) are slightly longer that the 135-34 so you probably have to rise your needle bar a tiny bit if the machine is setup for 135-34.

Well it is possible that your 267 is setup for 180 needles but I think they are factory set to 140/22. When you are using thicker needles you may need a feed dog with wider hole (because of thicker needle + thicker thread) and maybe have to move the hook saddle a tiny bit to the right to give the thicker thread more space to slip through the gap between the small tongue of the bobbin basket and needle plate. You know what I mean?

Maybe the former owner has set it up for 180 needles already - I dunno.

I´d also check the setting of your bobbin case opener. It ensures that the thread can slip through w/o problems.

EDIT:

TROX used Tkt 15 thread - that is about 207 in the US and this thread needs a 160/23 needle.

You are using a 180/24 needle so I´d say it is too thick for your machine.

Try your 130/21 needle with a 138 or 92 thread - maybe that works better.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Constabulary

[Ole South]

I don't think this machine has ever been set up right. Too little usage wear. What IS worn are timing path screw heads!!

The Adler service book doesn't make sense. It has you set the hook to needle timing FIRST. Then needle bar height. If loop timing is based on stroke vs loop length I don't see how this works. There is a timing ring machined into the lower part of the needle bar that is never referenced anywhere in the Service Book. I'm wondering if the GK373 is different somehow. SB doesn't include the GK373 as one of the many subclasses.

I found an old one page brochure from Keystone for the GK but can't date it. The DA website only has a single page brochure that identifies the GK373 as an upholstery machine. All the other 273 modules have at least 3 pages.

I'm using 138 thread and the thinner needle sews worse. I think your right. Until needle bar length based on needle bar height + needle length is set properly... this machine will never sew right. Probably why it has so little use.

Btw, SB has Vertical and Horizontal hook timing ref. figures are mixed up, both in German and English. But it says to rotate the "large" gear to time the hook. I can't get it to move on the main drive shaft when both set screws are loosened nor can they be easily removed. I can loosen the smaller gear on the hook shaft to change hook/needle timing but those screws can't be removed easily either and it doesn't spin smoothly on its shaft! I fear people may have buggered up the shafts and screws trying to make this piglet sing! :\

Edited March 8, 2015 by Ole South

[Ole South]

Found some 134-35 (16/100) needles locally today. Re-timed the Adler with the correct needle and even though the loop still goes snug at 4 o'clock with #92 thread ...it sews. The hook lines up only 1 or 2mm below the top of the scarf; that seems kinda high to me.. I've got size 22 and 23 needles coming; I'm guessing I'll still have the same problem with larger diameter thread.

I found this while looking for an alternative method of setting needle bar height (the Adler Service Book is painfully vague as to where exactly the hook should line up in reference to the needle eye) :

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usapr.com%2Ffiles%2FPosts%2F1%2Ftiming.pdf&ei=P0v-VPL3F8q_ggShv4DwAg&usg=AFQjCNFGsnjO4nocYzDhlhRbQJ6J6Z70qA&sig2=p7G4DNISiXTkkBSyCtGfEA&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY

It doesn't reference a specific machine model but the pictures appear to be a Singer. 'Think this would work as a generic adjustment?

[Trox]

Hi, do your machine have a horizontal or vertical hook? Your machine is a Kochs Adler 267; made before the company changed in to Dürkopp Adler in the 1990 ties. I cannot find any documents on it right now, but I have seen them somewhere. Anyway, If you call A DA dealer he will tell you the correct needle system for your subclass. I have not seen other needle systems for the 267 than 134 or the longer 134-35, who is the correct needle system for the regular -373. I do not remember all these subclasses any more, but DA have the documents for it. You must first find the needle system and the adjusted needle size before you can adjust it according to the DA manual. Nm 180 is the biggest needle in this needle system and not the adjusted needle size, thats more likely size Nm 130 or 140.

Tor

[Ole South]

Horizontal hook. How do you date the Adlers? Simply pre and post DA?

Thanks Trox

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

Needle system for 267-373 is 134-35

See attached image cut from DAs sale brochure.

[Ole South]

Thanks Gregg, do you stock parts?