Box Stitch Using Needle And Awl Machine

[rmr]

Has anyone had much experience( good or bad) using their needle and awl machine to perform a box( corner stitch) ?? I have a Campbell Randall lock stitch machine- bought the attachment to use it for that purpose( corner stitch) - just haven't tried yet. Any words of advise or wisdom would be greatly appreciated

Thank you in advance

RMR

[Tugadude]

Nigel Armitage has a video on Youtube where he covers box stitching with regular needle and awl, but I'm sure you can pick up some tips there. Putting a 45 degree angle on the corners and gluing them is key to his method. Also his use of the pricking iron. You can substitute a chisel also.

[DDahl]

I assume you have read this article from Campbell: http://campbell-bosworth.com/articles/Corner-Stitching.pdf

It looks like it would take a lot of practice to get really good at it.

Quick question: Since you have a Campbell Randall, how do you like its top and bottom stitching? I have heard that the stitch quality can be very nice, and that the bottom stitches can look almost as good as the top.

I have found matching upper and lower stitch quality is a real challenge with my 441 clone: 277 through two 10 oz layers of leather (finished side outward).

I am considering adding a Campbell Randall to my machine collection in the near future.

Thanks,

Dave

[kseidel]

Quick question: Since you have a Campbell Randall, how do you like its top and bottom stitching? I have heard that the stitch quality can be very nice, and that the bottom stitches can look almost as good as the top.

I have found matching upper and lower stitch quality is a real challenge with my 441 clone: 277 through two 10 oz layers of leather (finished side outward).

I am considering adding a Campbell Randall to my machine collection in the near future.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

Hook and awl stitchers do make a more attractive bottom stitch than straight needle machines. This is largely because the hook coming up from the bottom pushes the leather back up that is bushed down from the top with the awl. A straight needle machine does not do this. I have several of each style machines and the bottom stitch is always better looking on the hook and awl machines.

You can improve the look of the bottom stitch on your straight needle by wetting the bottom side of the leather several minutes prior to stitching. This reduces the tearing of the leather when the needle pushes thru from the top side. When finished stitching, rubbing over the stitch line with a rub stick or using an over stitch wheel will further improve the final look.

When you are ready to buy a hook and awl, give me a call. I have a great Randall high lift machine that I am ready to part with. (I think)

Keith

[Trox]

Hi, I been thinking about copying this 441 attachment for box stitching. It was either Artisan or Ferdco who came with it in the first place. The principals is of course the same, you need to have a wooden lest inside to make this work too.

Tor

[rmr]

Trox

I tried that on my cobra 441 clone- didn't work out so well for me- but it could be me??

DDahl- yes the bottom side of the stitch looks much nicer that with the 441 clones I have one of those also). In addition to being nicer looking- the stitch line is just as straight as the top stitch line- on my 441 clone- especially when stitching thicker leather- its not uncommon for the stitching on the upper side to look wonderful- nice and straight- but on the bottom side there is fluctuations and the stitch line is not so straight- I have been told its due to the needle deflecting slightly as it goes through thick leather.

At least for me- there has been more of a learning curve when using the Cambell - Randall machine, when I got the 441 many years ago within a few weeks I felt very comfortable stitching curves, straight lines..... The Campbell machine takes longer to get that comfort level. I love and use both machines- often for different applications. If Im doing something where both sides of the stitch line are going to be visible and its important for them to be straight- I use the Campbell. If the bottom stitch isn't going to be visible and there are curves and such- I will use the cobra 441

[Trox]

Hi Rmr, where did you buy that attachment, do you know if its still available.

Thanks

Tor

[rmr]

I don't remember specifically- was on the internet- may have been ebay???? Was 5+ years ago. I believe at one time the Tipman co sold them- might give them a call

[Trox]

I don't remember specifically- was on the internet- may have been ebay???? Was 5+ years ago. I believe at one time the Tipman co sold them- might give them a call

Thanks, perhaps you will consider selling your, if you still have it.

Thanks

Tor

[catskin]

I have an American straight needle machine, and looking at what this thread has to say I wonder if someone with a bit of skill and tools could make a good box stitcher attachment for them being that they are made to stitch very near the edge. Looking at the pictures on here I think it would be worth it for any one doing much box stitching. What do you experts think?

[cgleathercraft]

I have an American straight needle machine, and looking at what this thread has to say I wonder if someone with a bit of skill and tools could make a good box stitcher attachment for them being that they are made to stitch very near the edge. Looking at the pictures on here I think it would be worth it for any one doing much box stitching. What do you experts think?

I might be interested in one as well

[oltoot]

I'm not sure just what you are trying to accomplish but I really opened up new avenues on my UL by taking a closed toe presser foot and carefully so as not to get it too hot grinding off the inside so that I can sew and turn along box type applications easily. The elongated u shape with the front holding things down and in line makes tracking right next to the vertical side of molded pieces easy and secure.

[rmr]

Hi Oltoot

would love to see a picture of what you did to the presser foot- I do a fair amount of box stitching ( by hand right now) on cases I make- looking to try to use my Campbell Randall machine to speed things up

RMR

[Wizcrafts]

I'm not sure just what you are trying to accomplish but I really opened up new avenues on my UL by taking a closed toe presser foot and carefully so as not to get it too hot grinding off the inside so that I can sew and turn along box type applications easily. The elongated u shape with the front holding things down and in line makes tracking right next to the vertical side of molded pieces easy and secure.

Olfoot;

Are you saying that you ground a curve inside the two legs? Kind of like a big piping foot might look?

[oltoot]

am on a trip now, will post pic in a few days. Just ground the inside off flat, leaving the foot running flat on the work but allowing stitch line to be right next to something rather than not being able to get right next to it. Ends up looking like a very elongated u when viewed from the top.

[amuckart]

Hi, I been thinking about copying this 441 attachment for box stitching. It was either Artisan or Ferdco who came with it in the first place. The principals is of course the same, you need to have a wooden lest inside to make this work too.

Tor

I think that particular one was Ferdco, but similar attachments have been around for a long time. Singer made a special version of the 45k for this job. There was one on Ebay in the UK some time ago for several thousand pounds. From what I read on ISMACS (I think) they were famously difficult things to use.

Here are pics from the ebay auction

[rmr]

Hi Oltoot

I'm still having a hard time envisioning what you did- no rush but would still love to see a picture

RMR

[oltoot]

patience

[kseidel]

I too would like to see a pic of your adjustment. I am confused as to what you have done based on your description. I have had some success stitching box corners by grinding feet, but also have had to grind a bottom plate to have an equal angle to support the work. The problem is getting the bottom angle to have enough relief for the work to move smoothly and not run into the machine. I have had to use a raised bottom plate in order to get enough relief to clear the outside of the lower housing. The results have been much better with hook and awl machines as they have a narrower arch cover over the shuttle.

[oltoot]

Pics as promised. Foot and plate (that I rarely use)

Edited March 30, 2015 by oltoot

[rmr]

Thank you.

How difficult do you find it using your machine to do a box stitch??

[kseidel]

Pics as promised. Foot and plate (that I rarely use)

In your pic, it looks like you are running the item being stitched on the right hand side of the foot, inside the throat of the machine. Is this correct? I see you also used a raised bottom plate to achieve relief on the bottom.

[oltoot]

Keith

On my Union Lock, the open or ground off part of the foot is outside. The bulk of the item being sewn goes outside with only the seam being on the inside. As the foot sets in the pic the front is on the right, inside on the top. As for the raised plate, in my work it is rarely necessary which is a good, no a great thing because deploying it means adjustment of the takeup so that the lock will be higher up and thus in the work and not balled up on the bottom and then returning it to 'normal'.

RMR

I have a sneaking suspicion that we may be talking about different things but when I use this foot I can sew at normal speeds with no problems and turn sharp corners or go around outside curves just like it was flat work.

Edited March 30, 2015 by oltoot

[Trox]

Oltoot, I'sorry but are we talking about the same thing here? We are talking about sewing two pieces of leather together in a 45 degree angle. I'm not sure how this will be possible with your attachment,without the use of force that is.

I'm sure a needle and awl machine will be the best solution for this seam. However,those are not available in my part of the world.

Tor

[kseidel]

Oltoot, It seems we are not on the same page. I too have a Union Lock and have the single toe feet for stitching right next to an object or edge. The raised bottom plate is great for stitching stirrups, but as you stated, setup requires a lot of adjustment to raise the lock above the plate and to be hidden inside the leather.

What we are referring to is a fixture to allow the machine to stitch the 90 degree corner of a case with the thread passing thru at a 45 degree angle. This requires the bottom of the foot to be angled shallow on the outside of the machine, and a bottom plate that is angled low on the left. This allows space for a square corner of a box to sit under the foot at a 45 degree angle and the stitch to follow around the box. this was popular for binocular cases and camera cases in the '40's. It requires that the leather be beveled at 45 degree angles and assembled to create a square (box) corner. It is quite difficult to do this kind of work well, and nearly impossible without the proper attachments.

The picture illustrates the attachment foot and bottom plate that is needed for box stitching.

Keith

Edited March 31, 2015 by kseidel