Question About Single Action Holsters

[RVM45]

Friends,

Why do most Western Style—actually most—Single Action Holsters leave the Trigger and Trigger Guard exposed?

Current Modern Technique calls for keeping the Trigger Finger out of the Guard and off the Trigger until the Sights are aligned with the Target and one has reached the decision to Shoot.

Questioning a couple friends who teach Combat Pistolcraft and both say that this is best practice even with a Single Action.

Leaving aside the Fast-Draw Shooters—do many/most SA Shooters make a practice of Drawing with Finger firmly inserted in Trigger Guard? Why?

When making a SA Holster, am I likely to seriously bollix the Design if I choose to run the Leather straight across rather than dipping down to expose Trigger and Guard?

A very wee bit more safety—since I'm not gonna stick my Finger in anyway—but better dust/mud/whatever protection for the Revolver and perhaps enhanced retention.

One more question—is there any association that still does Fast Draw with Live Ammo? Bob Munden did all his exhibition shooting with Live Ammo.

It would be instructive to see the Gear and Techniques used when there is a Very Real Potential to Shoot Oneself.

…..RVM45

[Dwight]

In answer to your final question, . . . look at this:

The picture of the holster is a fairly close copy of the Duke's rig, . . . and is typical of what I produce, . . . just FYI.

May God bless,

Dwight

[jfdavis58]

"Why do most Western Style—actually most—Single Action Holsters leave the Trigger and Trigger Guard exposed?

Current Modern Technique calls for keeping the Trigger Finger out of the Guard and off the Trigger until the Sights are aligned with the Target and one has reached the decision to Shoot.

Questioning a couple friends who teach Combat Pistolcraft and both say that this is best practice even with a Single Action.

Leaving aside the Fast-Draw Shooters—do many/most SA Shooters make a practice of Drawing with Finger firmly inserted in Trigger Guard? Why?

When making a SA Holster, am I likely to seriously bollix the Design if I choose to run the Leather straight across rather than dipping down to expose Trigger and Guard?"

If you watch close you might see the answer to your own question--then again maybe not.

Single Action!

A single action pistol must be cocked to be fired. Grabbing it from the holster with your finger on the trigger--even depressing the trigger does no harm. To fire it fast you can draw with trigger depressed and fan the hammer. Slight less fast is to draw with finger off trigger, cock the hammer, then depress trigger to fire--possibly more accurately--possibly. Obviously, in this situation you need the finger off the trigger to cock the gun.

Using a 1911 in this fashion one either carefully drops the hammer to the half-cock notch and holsters then thumbs it to full cock to fire or carries the gun with chamber empty, cycling the slide as part of the draw to chamber a round and cock the hammer.---hence you might see holster patterns with this trigger notch for the semi-auto single action handgun.

These are period guns with matching period holster; note the period is NOT now.

[Blackey Cole]

On the 1911 you forgot what is concidered the best way to carry one in the chamber hammer fully cocked and manual safety on. 1991s have been know to go off if the hammer is stored down on a chambered round or even in the safety position if dropped and hammer iss trucked that's why full cock with me chiral safety is best. For SA if you fan gun you be lucky to hit the target even if it the end of a barn. Yes fast draw with live ammo is still a compition today. So is cowboy action shooting.

[RVM45]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought CASS carefully avoided "Quick Draw" and Fast Presentation from the Holster. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a far cry from the old live ammo "Leather Slaps" that eventually led to IPSC.

Honest, yes one CAN get away with inserting the Trigger Finger into the Guard of a SA at the outset. I have no real problem with that—far less than some experts.

My question was more "How many shooters do this?" and "How many feel that they NEED to do this to get a clean draw?"

I liked the Holster that you showed. Much what I imagined.

I always carried my 1911A1s "Cocked and Locked" and I made a point of keeping thumb pressure on the Hammer as if I were trying to cock it as I inserted it into its Holster.

Jeff Cooper mentioned an Elite Anti-Terrorist Group who carried their Browning Hi-Powers Cocked and Unlocked and never had an Accidental Discharge. Cooper never identified them, but I think I read somewhere that the Unit was French.

Cooper disliked the hard pull on the first shot with Selective Double Action Automatics. While he didn't Recommend that someone carry a Gun like the S&W 39 Cocked and Unlocked (Condition Zero) but he had no Problem with Condition Zero.

If I had a good stiff Holster I'd carry my 5906s in Condition Zero.

Thanks for the Input.

…..RVM45

[Red Cent]

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/gun-leather/holsters/1860-army-holster-8-in-ghar.html

This is a reproduction of a holster circa 1860. Hollywood begat the evolution of the holster. A buscadero rig is the invention of Hollywood.

http://www.mernickleholsters.com/b_western/bw_b2009/bw_s2009.html

Then along came Clint Eastwood.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=clint+eastwood+roughout&qpvt=clint+eastwood+roughout&qpvt=clint+eastwood+roughout&FORM=IGRE#view=detail&id=91D3482686AD7CC4B260035B91B489465E69F28E&selectedIndex=49

SASS is R&D for holster makers. They come up with innovations just as NASCAR. The result is a search for speed and coolness.

Steve McQueen pushed the speed rig further into the American people.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=steve+mcqueen+holster&qpvt=steve+mcqueen+holster&qpvt=steve+mcqueen+holster&FORM=IGRE#view=detail&id=87422A3167DABD9F28E32850DB223564E13F72D5&selectedIndex=138

In SASS, we draw fast but we are not fast draw. If some one puts a hole in the ground 3 feet in front of his/her feet, they get a stage DQ. I have never accomplished this but some do.

This is SASS. friend and fellow SASS shooter from Michigan. This is a new world record and not a normal stage shot in SASS.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=deuce+stevens&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=AC5B41C5085F7522AD82AC5B41C5085F7522AD82

This is a SASS stage with Deuce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8DESEWH_QQ

The walk and draw craze added to the mix.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=walk+and+draw+rigs+of+the+1950s&qpvt=walk+and+draw+rigs+of+the+1950's&qpvt=walk+and+draw+rigs+of+the+1950's&FORM=IGRE#view=detail&id=2FE037BD975F4C37B48BE7727A497C4284EA88BF&selectedIndex=25

"Current Modern Technique calls for keeping the Trigger Finger out of the Guard and off the Trigger until the Sights are aligned with the Target and one has reached the decision to Shoot."

This is taught to those who carry semi-autos. This does not apply to double action revolvers and single action revolvers. At least, it shouldn't. And it should not apply to those who carry a DA/DA pistol such as the 39 (I have the 39 and the 59).

Edited April 3, 2015 by Red Cent

[Red Bear Haraldsson]

Ugh, Deuce makes me sick with envy!

RVM45 - Make it like the customer's want. Have a standard spiel ready, "It is just my opinion, but... having an exposed trigger is not very safe, but I'll make it however you want... if you're sure."

Myself, I am just starting in SASS. I make all my own gear. My holsters are based off Will Ghormley's Johnny Ringo rig.

(You'll have to google it, I don't know how to paste websites in here yet. )

[RVM45]

Deuce Stevens draws and shoots fast enough for any practical purpose. He's very accomplished.

Excuse my ignorance:

Is "SASS" and "CASS" the same thing or are they different organizations?

I bought a Ruger .45ACP/.45 Colt some time back because I had several hundred rounds of Handloaded .45ACP Ammo on hand and nothing to shoot them out of. (long story)

I couldn't locate a 70 Series and loathe any 80 Series and I have several "Must Have" modifications that took most 1911A1s out of my price range...

Then I picked up another .45 Ruger to have a pair and invested in Stag grips for them...

And in my current economy, if I need a carry Gun in the near future, they'll probably be it...

{Yeah, I might barter the two revolvers for a suitable 1911A1—and arguably be better Armed—but I loathe "Swap-a-Mania" and believe that Guns aren't so much purchased as they are Adopted…}

…..RVM45

[camano ridge]

SASS is the parent organization. Under SASS - Single Action Shooting Society, is CAS Cowboy Action Shooting, SASS Wild Bunch and SASS Mounted Shooting.

http://www.sassnet.com/

Edited April 6, 2015 by camano ridge