Members gottaknow Posted May 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Tinker, re-read the msds, section 4. It states that adding water can cause foaming if the oil is burning, as any oil will do. That refers to trying to extinguish it with water. The oil itself is not formulated with any water. Regards, Eric Edited May 10, 2015 by gottaknow Quote
Uwe Posted May 10, 2015 Report Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) I think my $25/gal. ZipperStop oil is the same as the AlbaChem Lily White, but I'm not positive yet. They sell the little zoom-spout bottle with definitely is identical, because it says AlbaChem right on the bottle. The Gallon size bottle get new reseller labels. There's apparently a bit of leeway in oil viscosity that will work in a machine. AlbaChem Lily White has a ISO viscosity of 22 Pfaff 335 manual specifies viscosity of 22 Durkopp Adler manuals specify viscosity of 10 Juki Defrix No. 1 has viscosity of 7.4 So the AlbaChem Lily White oil is a perfect match for my Pfaff, and apparently close enough for other manufacturers. Perhaps the lack of long term residue or nasty corrosive effects are equally if not more important than precise viscosity. I still have almost a gallon left, which seems like a lifetime supply in manual drip oiling - yay! Edited May 10, 2015 by Uwe Quote Uwe (pronounced "OOH-vuh" ) Links: Videos
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) Tinker, re-read the msds, section 4. It states that adding water can cause foaming if the oil is burning, as any oil will do. That refers to trying to extinguish it with water. The oil itself is not formulated with any water. Regards, Eric I get that the oil is not formulated with water, that would be bad. At least there was none in the sealed bottle that came from the factory. The bottle used to fill this machine previously would be a different story. When i read the msds, i thought conditions of flamability meant factors which could increase flamability, like foaming from water in the mix. Water in engine oil makes it frothy. I may be wrong but i think the frothing in diesel when you fill a tank makes it more flamable due to available oxygen. I assumed that section was telling me what conditions to avoid to prevent fire. Right after is the section on recommended fire fighting methods. Its a moot point really, I just chuckled to myself when i read that line, after your diagnosis of the machine. May have only been funny to me. It happens. Edited May 10, 2015 by TinkerTailor Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
Members Constabulary Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) This "oil pump thing" is really something one should know of and keep in mind when hunting for a new / used sewing machine!!! As Uwe said "the right oil topic" will probably cause some fighting. This is probably the same as "the correct olive drab paint" when you are involved in military vehicles. Others go crazy when it comes to automotive motor oils... WTF Anyway - would be nice to read other oil opinions. My all time favorite oil for all oiling purposes is the full synthetic S-761 weapons oil. S-761 is the NATO code not the product name. It is well penetrating has good cleaning effect and is well preserving too. I have used this stuff for years when I was in the Army. Since then I always have a few liters on my shelf. I´m not a technician but my simple mind makes me think what keeps the heavy machine guns firing can´t be bad for my vintage sewing machines. Maybe a dumb reason but this stuff just works very well. http://www.etsint.de/en/produkte/cleaning/military/weaponoil-967 Edited May 10, 2015 by Constabulary Quote ~ Keep "OLD CAST IRON" alive - it´s worth it ~ Machines in use: - Singer 111G156 - Singer 307G2 - Singer 29K71 - Singer 212G141 - Singer 45D91 - Singer 132K6 - Singer 108W20 - Singer 51WSV2 - Singer 143W2
Members gottaknow Posted May 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 Here's one more picture of the oil return intake. I removed the plastic bottle so you can see the sludge on the intake. There hasn't been any oil movement through this portion for a long time. It went unnoticed since there wasn't any oil getting to the top shaft to be returned to the sump anyway. I like Tinkers theory that perhaps water was introduced via a contaminated container, and it likely went on for a while. Only other way I've seen this happen is through condensation inside the upper arm where it could have drained back to the sump. I don't think that was the case though, since the inside of the upper arm is fairly clean. Regards, Eric Quote
Uwe Posted May 10, 2015 Report Posted May 10, 2015 Sometimes machines simply get left out in the rain at some point during their storied life. Nothing like a quick downpour during a yard sale or a leaky roof in a storage unit to get water into places where it shouldn't be. I was at an estate sale recently looking at a seemingly nice Pfaff flatbed machine. When I lifted the presser foot there was a crusty, rusted outline of the foot on the denim fabric. The fabric along with the rest of the machine had gotten quite wet at some point. I took that as a bad sign and moved on. Quote Uwe (pronounced "OOH-vuh" ) Links: Videos
Members brmax Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 WOW! them pics say a lot to me 1 .........cannot write that......... 2 Bothers me one hell of a lot it wasn't gave to someone instead of sold 3 ..........cannot write that either .......................... Eric Thanks for helping out, 3 cheers !!! Quote
Members gottaknow Posted May 10, 2015 Author Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 WOW! them pics say a lot to me 1 .........cannot write that......... 2 Bothers me one hell of a lot it wasn't gave to someone instead of sold 3 ..........cannot write that either .......................... Eric Thanks for helping out, 3 cheers !!! Heh.. Rather than place blame, I choose uneducated oversight. I see it a lot. I guess that's why I enjoy sharing information so much. Lord knows I won't be around forever, so pay it forward. I have been very fortunate to have had the experience and training I recieved. I've made my share of mistakes, it's part of the process. I had a Union Special 63900KD (actually I had 30 of them). It's a needle feed lockstitch with a gear type oil pump for the top shaft. The tended to lose their prime. The mechanic I was working for at the time told me to keep an eye on that particular machine, check the sight glass 4 times a day. The operator was setting front zippers and sewed wide open at 4000 spm. I was across the factory and began hearing a high pitched whine. As I was turning around, there was a loud bang. The top shaft froze up so tight, that it actually tipped the machine over frontwards. We had to part out the machine and I learned a valuable lesson. Regards, Eric Quote
Members SantaFeMarie Posted May 10, 2015 Members Report Posted May 10, 2015 2 Bothers me one hell of a lot it wasn't gave to someone instead of sold Back when all this started the owner of the machine said it worked fine when he got it. I think it is unreasonable to buy a used machine in order to save money and then assume it is in like new condition. Quote
Members TinkerTailor Posted May 11, 2015 Members Report Posted May 11, 2015 If that is a bottom feed sump, if there is water in it it would be sucked up to the pump first as oil floats on water. I wonder if the previous seller topped it up with oil on top of the water and ran it with water lube for a while. Because there was at least water up there, at slow speeds the machine has been able to work for a while. Quote "If nobody shares what they know, we will eventually all know nothing." "There is no adventure in letting fear and common sense be your guide"
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