wendlynne Report post Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Hello all, I'm a bit overwhelmed, and I have read and re-read the advice here and had a few questions for the experts on a machine. I know these have been asked and re-asked, so I've tried to narrow down what I am looking for as best I can. Primary Application: Horse gear, tack only - no saddles, only breast collars, headstalls, reins. Assume 5/8" capacity necessary as breast collars can get pretty thick. As I'm looking to create higher-end pieces, it's important the leather not take marks from feed dogs. Secondary: Handbags, belts and footwear would be nice, but not a high priority at this point. Budget: hoping to stay around 1500 in hand, located in southern california. Have truck, will travel, also have a dear friend who services industrial garment machines for a living that can do the motor conversion, service, etc. if needed -- so a head-only shipment would be fine for cross-country. Also surprisingly handy myself for cleanup and mechanical, have serviced, rewired and restored a few singer garment industrials. I was originally hoping to stay under 1000 out the door and have something I could use to build the business and upgrade later, and invest the additional into some higher quality tools and leather for the hand work. I just now know that might not be feasible, from what I keep reading here. Questions: * I won't lie, the HUGE ARM, 6 foot high machines are scary for a bitty girl. I'm accustomed to flatbed machines, that's my comfort zone. Will a cylinder machine be necessary for the horse tack applications to work around hardware? Keep in mind I've made wire-cage hoop skirt casings and corsets on my industrial machine, so while it seems convenient, it's also just.... different. Someone experienced in the area would be appreciated. * Do I really need a long-arm machine? I mean, the applications are typically only a few inches wide, so unless I start making saddles it seems that the long-arm is overkill. I have a relatively small studio, so I'm looking to save space and feel less like the machine is going to eat me for dinner. * As an old-school kinda gal, the siren's song of a beautiful old singer or vintage machine is strong. I know they're rare and parts are hard to find, but my dad is a hot rod guy and machinist who can help in that department. There's so many gorgeous machines online (like the singer 144w) at places like miamisewing.com, but I'm generally a bit overwhelmed with the options. If I don't care about reverse, is a vintage machine and lower price point possible? Any particular machines you would recommend? If anyone was inclined to take a look at Miami Sewing's inventory here I would love the feedback on which might be best in the lower price range. I called and felt like we had a tough time communicating regarding my price points and needs. I don't want to pay to ship a table across the country unless I have to. * If anyone has the interest, I would be happy to help with the data entry to create a nice spreadsheet through a public site like google docs that could break out machine types for particular applications. A quick sample is posted here, I just have noticed a lot of us ask the same questions over and over, and it's a lot of info to digest. If people wanted to send me lists or update the sheets themselves, it might be a nice long-term resource for the forums. Any interest in such a thing? P.S. - I have of course spoken with the suggested vendors on the site regarding new machines, I'm just wanting a little clarification on vintage/used machines and requirements so I can balance the cost of new and taxes against oldies. Thanks! Edited June 13, 2015 by wendlynne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted June 13, 2015 I think the miamisewing prices are a little (or a lot) high. My opinion. If you go to any of the larger shows like Sheridan or Wichita Falls, you can usually find Nick Pittman from Nick-O Sewing. He usually brings a bunch of reconditioned machines with him. Long arm, short arm flat...Get the arm, long or short, when you need it, you need it, they don't put them on there for nothing. Machines, An ASE No. 9 would be a good machine for harness. There wasn't anything that broke that I couldn't make or buy, but other than needles (which are plentiful, same as most big stitchers), I didn't really need to. This machine had an arm like most big stitchers, and would sew 7/8 or more in most thread sizes. It sewed straight and you could crank it or run it with a motor. I paid $900 for it and sold it for $2800. Ferdinand Bull 900-B. Beautiful jump foot harness machine, will do practically anything, with any thread, poly or nylon. I've seen these go complete with stand and motor for $1700 or less. Of course a used Cowboy or Cobra, or Artisan short arm that was a trade in could also get you into your price range. Call the dealers and have them put you on the list for one. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 13, 2015 Since you stated you need to sew up to 5/8", that leaves out anything less than the big harness stitchers. You will definitely need one equipped with a 3:1 speed reducer, to help punch through that much leather. Art already mentioned some brand names, so I won't duplicate. FWIIW, I use a Cowboy CB4500 to sew these kinds of items. A CB3500 will sew as thick, with just a 9" arm, saving you a couple hundred dollars. A Cobra Class 3 is similar, as is the Techsew 4100. If you have a strong arm and good machine shop, a Tippman Boss can sew heavy leather using a hand crank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wendlynne Report post Posted June 13, 2015 Thank you both, very very much for the info. I appreciate the time and thorough response - but of course now I'm questioning myself on the 5/8" as I review pieces I have on hand. All of what I'm looking at is under 1/2". The section that's the largest is 7/16" -- although I would need a bit more clearance for the foot of course. I know from the stickies and reading that I shouldn't equip myself with a machine and max it out, run it into the ground. On the other hand, I can get by with under 1/2" for a year or so as I build the business if it will make a significant price difference. Thoughts? Again, thanks for the help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted June 14, 2015 Good catch Wiz, I forgot all about the Tippmann Boss, and then don't ever short stroke it, it has a lever, not a crank, the crank is on the Luberto Cub. Then Hi Ho Silver, there is the Tippmann Aerostitch They would all work, but if you are making a lot, the Boss and the Cub would get old after a while, and my aching arm old. Let's not forget the Aerostitch, they run pretty good, and aren't complicated at all. If the Boss is tempting, get an iron one, not the aluminium one. Boss: Aerostitch: I couldn't find anything on the Cub (there aren't a lot of them) so I included a little footage of probably the prettiest machine I have ever owned, a Campbell Lockstitch. Note the stitch quality. These are right expensive machines and take a little training to learn to tend to them, however not nearly as complicated as the Union Lockstitch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted June 14, 2015 You are going to be sewing firmer leather, and you need the bigger machine for that. If you have to, get a Boss till you're ready to move up, your arm will let you know. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wendlynne Report post Posted June 14, 2015 Holy smokes, the Campbell has ruined me for life. That's......pretty. Here I've been lusting after 144s and class 7 singers. I really like the aerostitch, that's a viable option. I'm afraid of the boss, skinny weak girl arms here. Although, I expect they wouldn't be for long if that were sitting around! Artisan and cobra machines are within driving distance here, so I'm guessing those make the most sense. Sigh. I'll have to let go of my vintage machine craving for now I suppose. It's just that everything was so much PRETTIER when it was manufactured 40+ years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted June 14, 2015 Depending on your local used machine market, there might not be any used machines available. Here in Southern Arizona, I bet I watched the classifieds for 9-10 months before a reasonably priced used machine became available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted June 14, 2015 I had a Class 7 or two years ago. Not a great machine for leather. A very good machine for canvas. I sold them to a guy who does rental tents (yes there is actually a need for that) who just loves it. The Tippmann Boss is not that hard to pull through, however doing belts or harness with one can be a bit tiring. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LumpenDoodle2 Report post Posted June 14, 2015 You can't beat a vintage Singer for quality, and they are all great workhorses (I have about 6 various models, and no space for more, sadly). Certainly, moving from fabric sewing to leather is, surprisingly, a bit of a new ball game. Have you had a look around the ismacs.net website? It lists the main uses of the old Singers, and is a handy buying guide. The problem is that the price of a decent industrial Singer is creeping up as their quality is more appreciated. The other 'problem' is that they are such a pleasure to use, they are almost addictive. I only have a fraction of the experience of leatherwork and machines that the majority of folk here have, but here's my tuppenceworth. Buy a machine that will sew the thickness of leather you want, and then a bit heavier. Otherwise to my way of thinking, you will always be using the machine at the top end of it's tolerances/abilities, and there's no 'wiggle' room for the odd thicker leather project which may pop up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 14, 2015 SNIP Buy a machine that will sew the thickness of leather you want, and then a bit heavier. Otherwise to my way of thinking, you will always be using the machine at the top end of it's tolerances/abilities, and there's no 'wiggle' room for the odd thicker leather project which may pop up. We need a "Like" or "+1" button for individual posts like this. It contains very good information in but two sentences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gump Report post Posted June 14, 2015 If your choice is between Artisan and Cobra, lean toward the Cobra because service after sale has to be better than from the Artisan crew. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wendlynne Report post Posted June 14, 2015 Depending on your local used machine market, there might not be any used machines available. Here in Southern Arizona, I bet I watched the classifieds for 9-10 months before a reasonably priced used machine became available. Colt! That's not what I want to hear =) I will troll classifieds and the internet obsessively for about, oh, two weeks. Then my patience runs out. With the handbag/accessories market in LA being very strong, the light to medium equipment goes in a flash. I'll be curious about the heavy, as the equine industry is on a slow decline here (with the exception of temecula and the saddleries there). I'll be pestering Cobra Steve first thing Monday, and I haven't found much of anything thus far in CA or AZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frankqv Report post Posted June 14, 2015 If you happen to find an Aerostich (They are getting to be pretty rare,still parts available from Tippmann)Try to find one with the needle down Bar,this allow you to bring the needle down and line up your stitch,before you begin stiching.The needle down also comes with reverse which is nice to have. I use an Aerostich for holsters and heavy tack Needle down Page 12 http://www.tippmannindustrial.com/images/pdf/Manual-Aero1.pdf You do need a compressor with the Aerostich,it does sew 3/4" effortlessly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted June 14, 2015 If you happen to find an Aerostich (They are getting to be pretty rare,still parts available from Tippmann)Try to find one with the needle down Bar,this allow you to bring the needle down and line up your stitch,before you begin stiching.The needle down also comes with reverse which is nice to have. I use an Aerostich for holsters and heavy tack Needle down Page 12 http://www.tippmannindustrial.com/images/pdf/Manual-Aero1.pdf You do need a compressor with the Aerostich,it does sew 3/4" effortlessly How noisy are those Aerostitches? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted June 15, 2015 The Aerostitch is pretty quite best i remember. But the compressor is loud and will run after you sew maybe 5 to 10 inches and keep running after you get done sewing till it builds up enough pressure to shut off. I had a 20 gallon compressor ( bigger than what they said it needed ) and i sent the one i had back. Then i bought a Ferdco Pro 2000 and have had it for the last 20 plus years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra Steve Report post Posted June 16, 2015 Hi Wendy. We are in Southern Ca. as well. We have a used Artisan 3200 for sale if you are interested. Please call me for more info. Thanks, Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colt W Knight Report post Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Wendy. We are in Southern Ca. as well. We have a used Artisan 3200 for sale if you are interested. Please call me for more info. Thanks, Steve There ya go, Steve knows what is going on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra Steve Report post Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Thanks Colt! Takes one to know one! Edited June 17, 2015 by Cobra Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
