Singer 51W59

[dikman]

A friend rang today and said he had an "industrial" sewing machine, was I interested? Of course, says I (although I was aware that many so-called industrial machines aren't. Anyhow, turns out it's a Singer 51W59, a bit the worse for wear and unused for a long time, as he said that "something broke" on it. I've got the machine itself and just have to arrange to pick up the table and motor assembly (I could see the Singer label on the motor underneath the table),

So, can anyone enlighten me on this particular machine?

Just noticed that the thread tensioner is missing.....

[Ferg]

If you type the model number into Google you will get numerous sites offering parts manuals among other things.

Wiz can tell you most if not all the information regarding what this machine is capable of.

ferg

[Wizcrafts]

This is a light duty, roller foot, post machine. It is meant for sewing shoe and boot uppers, ball caps, Cowboy hats, moccasins and other thin, light weight leather items. The maximum thread size is #69, using a #18 needle. It can also sew in zippers and patches on vests.

The stitch length is changed by turning the knob in the center of the flywheel. Turning it clockwise shortens, while turning it c.c.w. lengthens the stitches. The normal range of adjustment is from about 20 stitches per inch, down to about 5 or 6 per inch.

[dikman]

Thanks guys. I've spent a fair bit of time searching the 'net, and there's not what I would call a lot of info about this particular machine. I've got the user instructions (which at least tells me how to reset the shuttle timing) and a parts list, but I suspect that this isn't going to be much use as I haven't been able to find any spares listed anywhere. I know it was made at the Bridgeport plant in the US, and is rated to 2500 stitches/minute!!!

I got it hooked up to the motor (beautiful old motor) and had it running briefly - until the leather belt snapped! My biggest problem is the missing thread tensioner assembly. I will have to try and find something from an older Singer and adapt it to fit.

The owner said something was broken, but it turned out that he was wrong (he admitted he doesn't know anything about it mechanically), I found that there is a locking collar (for want of a better description) on the top shaft, and this had been tightened to stop any rotation. I'm guessing that this is to help with re-timing the shuttle, which I have to do as I removed the drive belt while trying to figure out whether the problem was in the upper part or the lower shuttle area (at least this showed me where the problem was).

It's a bit of a beast, but should do nicely for my needs, once I get the missing tensioner sorted. Plus the price was right, nothing but a lot of effort dismantling it all to get it home - that motor is heavy!!

[Evo160K]

FWIW

http://dixiesewingmachine.tzo.com/MANUALS/SINGERPARTS3/51W59.pdf

[dikman]

Thanks Evo, that's the same as the one I already found .

[Constabulary]

I got it hooked up to the motor (beautiful old motor) and had it running briefly - until the leather belt snapped! My biggest problem is the missing thread tensioner assembly. I will have to try and find something from an older Singer and adapt it to fit.

Maybe you can take parts from the standard tension unit you find on most sewing machines - like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SINGER-111W-SEWING-MACHINE-THREAD-TENSION-COMPLETE-CONSEW-206-PART-240446-/110914591225?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d30659f9

[dikman]

As the saying goes "great minds think alike", Constabulary . I have a Singer 201K hand-crank unit, and looking at the tensioner assembly it looks pretty similar, so I'm going to remove it today and see what it will take to fit it. The only other thing I don't have is the thread roller which fits below the tensioner, but it may not be necessary for my needs. If I do need it, then I'll make one.

[dikman]

For those who may be interested, the tensioner from my 201 has the same mounting system, i.e. a shaft extends from the rear of the tensioner assembly and slides into a hole in the machine body, where it's held in place by a locking grub screw. Main problem is the shaft is too short to lock in place. I located a used Singer 201K today (this is a later model than mine and has an electric motor) for $20 (!) so I went for a drive to grab it, as I figure just buying a tensioner assembly - if I can find one - would cost me more than that. I'll strip it for parts and dump the body, as it has no real collectable value, and this should give me a good supply of the various screws that Singer use. Extending the tensioner shaft is going to be a bit tricky, however, as the rear shaft is steel and is pressed into the front part, which is aluminium!!

A bit more pondering is in order........

[dikman]

So, I've got it working - almost.

Made a suitable tensioner from the 201K I bought, fixed the thread guides (missing springs), re-timed the shuttle and re-adjusted the needle hook, made a new drive belt from neoprene, fitted a larger pulley to the handwheel to try and slow it down a bit (original is 2" diam, new one is 4"), re-connected the pedal for lifting the roller wheel and gave it a good oiling. Oh, and I took to the table with a circular saw (much too big!).

Running without thread it punches through leather quite nicely, and while it will do 1/4" it's really at it's limit doing it. I loaded it with thread (the bonded stuff that came with it) and ran it by hand to see what would happen. The needle picked up the bobbin thread ok, and watching the shuttle it appears to be working ok, but for some reason it seems to drag extra thread down into the shuttle (through the needle hole) from underneath the material. I can get a row of stitches, but when I remove the material there are about three lines of thread disappering down the hole!

I'm a bit perplexed at the moment.......

[LumpenDoodle2]

I'm probably wrong, but have you tried holding the thread ends at the start of the stitch just for the first stitch or two. If that doesn't help, could it be the wrong thread/needle size?

Another thought is that the thread take up is allowing too much slack, but I would have expected that to cause missed stitches or thread break.

[dikman]

I have been holding the thread, but it still did it. I think, though, that the problem is definitely the top (needle) thread being caught somehow by the pickup hook on the shuttle. That would indicate slack thread somewhere. A bit frustrating, but I figure I must be close to getting it working - I'm just not game to run the motor until I know it will do a reliable hand stitch.

[Northmount]

Try more top thread tension, also see if the check spring is working.

Tom

[Wizcrafts]

Add some travel to the check spring.

[dikman]

I went out to play with it a bit more, and think I've got it! I've identified three issues.

1. I wasn't holding the thread tight enough at the start (LumpenDoodle2 was right in that regard). This was allowing it to pull back into the shuttle.

2. It needs a lot more tension on the upper (needle) thread than I thought it would need. I'll need to look at my tensioner, as it's almost maxxed out tension-wise now.

3. There is a "bobbin case lever" to the left of the hook. Its function is to turn the bobbin case very slightly, at the right moment, to allow the needle thread to slide past the bobbin case. It looked like it was working ok at first, but then I noticed that there seemed to be a very slight resistance to the thread sliding between the lever and the case. I re-adjusted it slightly (we're talking 1mm here!) and that looked like the final piece to the puzzle.

I ran a quick stitch on a piece of 4-5 oz. veg-tan and didn't look too bad. I then tried it glued to a piece of 7-8 oz, the first run was ok but the second broke the needle (mainly due to the lack of slow speed control). The larger pulley I fitted actually works quite well on thinner stuff, giving me reasonable control, but on thicker material it jams if I start real slow. If I can rig up a pulley reduction system that should solve that problem.

So far it's cost me $36 for the neoprene for the belt and $20 for the junked 201K (for the tensioner). Not too bad, considering what the machine is probably capable of .

Thanks for all the help, folks.

Edited July 31, 2015 by dikman

[Constabulary]

cool - I like it - didn´t know it has this type of thread tensioner, I thought it uses the "standard" one like most the machiens have.

I´m also looking for a post bed machine. Will you rework the paint job? Maybe black again and some new decals?

Edited July 31, 2015 by Constabulary

[dikman]

"Standard" tensioner? What's that look like? The parts breakdown in the manual looks pretty much the same as my 201, so I just assumed it was the same type. If there's a better one to use let me know.

It would be nice to repaint it, (Singer black and gold?) seeing that it's flaking off, but that may be sometime down the track. As it's an industrial machine I just assumed that the grey finish was par for the course.

I'm thinking of making a small table to fit around the "post" so that I can also have a flat area to lay the work on.

[Constabulary]

everything is okay, I just thought the machien would use this tensioner since a lot of sewing machiens are using it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THREAD-TENSION-BRACKET-COMPLETE-240446-CONSEW-206-225-226-227-SINGER-111-111W-/121468542954?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4816dfea

[dikman]

No worries, mate. That one would require a fair bit of work to make it fit!

[Northmount]

If the top tension is set very tight, and is hard to pull through the thread path, try using a larger needle size. It will make a larger hole and you can reduce the top tension accordingly.

Tom

[Wizcrafts]

Dikman;

The thread tensioner unit from the Singer 201 is setup for domestic cotton or polyester thread. The spring is probably very light duty. When you crank it down hard to try to tensions bonded thread in leather, you are compressing the coils too far, causing a disruption in the Force. There is no give at all if the coils are all the way in. Further, there is no room for the thread release to push the disks apart.

You should try to find an industrial tensioner unit with a stronger coil spring. Also, make sure the check spring has enough travel and tension. It was probably setup for light duty thread.

[dikman]

Thanks Wiz, I was wondering whether that could be the case with the coil spring. Looks like I'm not finished with it yet. Oh, and there's no thread release on this machine.

[dikman]

I found another cone-shaped spring that fits inside the original (!) so I've added that to give more tension. Seems to work at the moment, but when I ran some stitches on a single layer of 4 oz leather I noticed that if I pulled the bobbin thread (after I'd cut the thread off the machine) that it pulled through the top thread of the last couple of stitches. I'm wondering if the needle is making too big a hole. Except for that it looked good.

I've also fitted a larger pulley to the handwheel. The original was 2 1/4" (inside groove measurement) and the new one is 5", so that has slowed it down quite a bit. It was still hard to start slowly, however, and would take off fairly suddenly. I then realised that with the motor off it was very hard to turn the handwheel, so I started looking at the clutch arrangement. Once I'd figured out how it was supposed to work, I got stuck into it. The friction material (asbestos?) is in good condition, but there was a high spot that was dragging when turning the pulley. The yoke it's mounted on looked like it was supposed to slide slightly, but was extremely tight. I stripped it down, lubed the slide and re-adjusted the support screws on the yoke.

That made a huge difference, as it is now much smoother when it engages. If I can fit a slightly smaller pulley on the clutch shaft that should also help. A handbook on the motor would have been nice, but I can't find one. Yes, I know, a servo motor would be nice but they are rather expensive here, unfortunately.

Next step is to locate some needles. It appears to use an obsolete class of needle, according to the people I spoke to, but they said to take in the existing needles and they should be able to sort out what I need.

[dikman]

With the larger pulley on the handwheel, it works great for sewing denim, giving pretty good slow speed control. Still not so good for leather, however, due to the increased resistance to the needle going in. So, I made up a step-down pulley from my collection of "stuff". The wooden mounting is rudimentary, just to see if it would work - which it does. Went through 1/4" of leather ok, but when I tried slightly thicker the needle snapped in three (probably need a thicker needle for this)! I'm not too worried about that, as I'm probably starting to push it beyond its limits.

The shaft is from the 201K that I gutted, turned down a smidgin to fit a couple of bearings from my spares box. One of the pulleys didn't have a centre boss, so I turned one up for it. Now I just have to figure out a decent mounting for the pulley arrangement. Steel would be nice, but will be a lot of work making the clamps/mounting for the bearings, so I'm thinking making a better one from wood might be adequate (after all, there's no real stresses on the thing).

[Northmount]

Old timers have used a lot of different things for bearings. Oak blocks lubricated with tallow. Wood blocks lined with bacon rind.

Tom