Need to vent a little...

[GregGaub]

Ok, I know you guys will understand my frustration.

I have a guitar strap that I have to hand over tomorrow. I went to Tandy to take advantage of their sales this weekend to pick up some tools to fill in my collection where I needed a couple. I then began to use them on this project. All I can say is that I'm VERY disappointed in these new tools. Ironically, I found that I bought a new one of a tool I already had, but I thought it was a different tool because the impression was so different from my old one. Specifically this was a checked beveller, B936. My old one was flat and has a deeper texture, while the new one is rounded, both on the face and on the toe, and has a much shallower, almost invisible texture. I tested them at the store, but obviously not enough. I also found that no matter how soft/hard I stamp, or how little/much I move it, it always wants to leave prints behind. I end up having to tap so lightly and frequently to even out the impressions that the pitiful texture gets completely lost.

Obviously, I'm in a bad mood over this.

I've already searched the boards for suggestions on high quality stamping tools, and found that many of you recommend Hide Crafters tools, which I plan to order from very soon.

Am I being too hard on Tandy? Does anyone else feel that their tool quality has taken a dive? Is there a better option than Hide Crafters?

Thanks!

-Greg

[electrathon]

Tandy is well aware of the trouble. They have been saying for years that they are looking into fixing it. Don't hold your breath.

Barry King tools are far superior. Great service and great quality. They do cost more though.

[MatthewD]

I have a couple of the geometric pattern stamps and they are not cutting it on leaving a good impression...

[rickybobby]

Ok, I know you guys will understand my frustration.

Am I being too hard on Tandy? Does anyone else feel that their tool quality has taken a dive? Is there a better option than Hide Crafters?

Thanks!

-Greg

Greg,

Hide crafter tools are o.k. I use my checkered bevels from them a lot. Barry Kings tools are a good step up from Tandy's.

I just bought the basic set from Hackbarth and they Rock!!! I have had a basket tool from them for 6 or 7 years and to look at it next to a Craftool you cannot believe how clean and crisp the fine lines and edges are compared to the Craftool!!!

Call them direct Lonnie is working with Ellis now (Ellis is 86) Lonnie will take great care of you. This set is only a couple of dollars a tool more then tandys but they are worlds apart!

check this out http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...hackbarth+tools

Hope you try them, I really like mine.

Rick J.

[CitizenKate]

Hopefully someone from Tandy who knows what is in the works will see this and address it. I am sad to say, I have seen a noticeable decline in the quality of stamps from Tandy just in the last 5 years. I have bought several extra copies of stamps I already have for teaching classes, and they are quite different from the ones I bought only a few years ago.

But I have heard hopeful rumors that they are re-making the patterns from which the stamps are made. I would be especially encouraged if they were looking for ways (since these are mass-produced, not handmade) to apply more modern CNC milling techniques to make them.

Kate

[hidepounder]

All of Tandy's tools are entry level tools, at best. Some of the old Tandy tools are okay, but still entry level. Hidecrafter tools are better, however, in my humble opinion, if you are serious about progressing, you may want to upgrade. The following is a list of quality tool makers. It would be worth your time to call and have them send you their catalogs. Be prepared for sticker shock!

Pro Series Tools - Bob Beard, 505/632-7039

Gore Tools - Jay, 800/859-8338

Hackbarth Tools - Ellis/Lonnie, 520/642-3891

Barry King Tools - Barry, 307/672-5657

Bill Woodruff Tools - Bill, 520/282-6134

Wayne Jueschke Tools - Wayne, 775-738-4885

Smith & Company - Chuck Smith, 818/222-5757

Hope this helps....

Bob

[Rawhide]

I have spoken to Jim Linnell on this issue and he said that Tandy (him specifically) are collecting all the old craftools that have the higher quality than today's craftools. Once the collection is complete, they plan to re-tool all of them based on the old tools as masters. When will this happen? I have no clue. But it would be nice to contrast some of them to what we have. Now with that said, I've fallen in love with Barry King's tools and plan on trying Bob beard and Wayne Jueschke tools.

[Vikti]

I was noticing the same thing with a couple of my own Craftools. I have 2 A401 (?) background tools and they have different checker patterns on them. What got me to notice was earlier today while I was doodling around I started using one and took a break and afterwards I picked up the other and noticed that I wasn't getting the same "darkness" that I was getting earlier.

I've only been hanging around the Hidecrafters in Ft. Worth for a couple of months now, but one thing that they have shown me is that at times "night and day" doesn't even begin to describe the differences in quality between what Hidecrafters sells and Craftools. I bought myself a Barry King mallet about 2 months ago hoping that I would get a better look out of my tri-weave tool that I got from Tandy but was dissappointed in the results. Today I got myself the small tri-weave from Hidecrafters and now I get very satifactory result by just using my light polly mallet.

So now, every few weeks when work permits me to go up there I get myself a couple of new tools to replace my Craftools that I have.

Damon

[abn]

I have a lot of the Hidecrafter tools, most of them marked "Craft Japan." They cost about the same as the Tandy Craftools, but the impressions are much crisper. If you're looking to get good stamps at a reasonable price, I'd recommend them.

Good luck! -Alex

[GregGaub]

Thanks, everyone. I'll definitely be ordering some of those catalogs, and get a good grip on what's out there and for how much.

I remember that I did have a non-Tandy tool in my collection that was really good. I went out and checked, and it's a Hackbarth. It doesn't have a code number on it, but it's a round checked shader of some kind. I think I got it during some kind of promotion a few years ago, or as a prize from something. Anyway, it's far and away a better tool than anything else in my collection, including Tandy tools my dad had from when I was a kid in the scouts (probably before that, actually).

While I readily admit that I'm no master at this, it's clear to me now how big a difference the quality of the tools make, even in the hands of an amateur.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[MatthewD]

I have a basket weave pattern that is from Kelly Tools in NZ that I love... does anyone have a number for them?

[whinewine]

I have a basket weave pattern that is from Kelly Tools in NZ that I love... does anyone have a number for them?

I believe that Kelly is no longer in business, as are Baron and Basic Tools also non-existent. The '70s were the heyday of the many leather tool manufacturers who made a variety of stamping tools that don't exist anymore today. They are as non-existent as fur hippie vests and wooden clog soles, except that they occasionally show up on ebay.

russ

[bruce johnson]

I would have to agree with every said so far. I have/had stamps from most everyone mentioned already plus a couple. A few things in Tandy's defense, they are selling stamps for $4-6. I can't buy a decent bolt for much less than half that, let alone something with a design. Their stamp prices have not appreciably changed in several years. The quality is not what it used to be, but the price is. Maybe it is time to raise the price and the impression quality at the same time. I have never damaged a Tandy stamp in use, I can't say that for another supplier's line that cost more.

That said I buy several Tandy stamps a year. Like more than one guy has told me, they sell a nice making of a stamp. They already have the knurling and the shank. A little metal saw, file, grinder, or Dremel work and I've got some pretty usuable stamps for a purpose not intended. Although I have also done some grinding on a couple of Barry King, Hackbarth, and Jeremiah Watt stamps too, the Tandy ones gave me that confidence.

I also will buy a Tandy stamp to see if I can run a pattern decently or even like the pattern once it is on the leather in front of me. It is better to find out with a $5 stamp that you don't like a triweave, basket, or waffle stamp, than with a $50 or $100 one. You can always trade up.

[CitizenKate]

That said I buy several Tandy stamps a year. Like more than one guy has told me, they sell a nice making of a stamp. They already have the knurling and the shank. A little metal saw, file, grinder, or Dremel work and I've got some pretty usuable stamps for a purpose not intended.

Hmmm... that's an interesting point. I've been shopping around for tools and machines I can use to try to make some of my own stamps, and this sounds like a good way to start experimenting. Thanks for the tip!

Kate

[Billy P]

I have a couple of the Craft-Japan tools from HC's too. I have found them to actually be a better tool than the Crafttools, but funny thing is from what I have heard/been told, Craft-Japan is at least partially owned by Tandy/Crafttool. I don't know this as fact, but like I said have been told this by at least one good source. I also have some tools/stamps that came from stleather.com in St Louis that I have found to be at least as good as the Crafttool stamps, if not better. They are marked IVAN. I have been told and have seen it advised on another group that I'm in to get a magnet and see if it will stick to the tools and how strong it seems to hold on. If this is and indication of a better tool then the IVAN's do have a better metal in them. The Ivans that I have, have given me pretty decent impressions and you can't beat st's price. Order one tool and $3.79 order 3 to 9 and $3.59, 10 to 49 $3.39, ya'll get the picture. I am not connected with St leather in any way, but I do order some stuff from them, and as I can't afford alot for tools and such right now, quality wise and price wise I like the tools that they offer. Sorry to ramble on so and that's all for now. Billy P

[GregGaub]

Ok then, if money were NO OBJECT, what would you knowledgeable people say is THE BEST tool maker. If I were to trade up to the top, who should I call first?

Or, is it basically a wash between all the top tool makers, and any of them will be as good as the other on average?

[abn]

You should probably prepare yourself for a number of different opinions anytime you ask a question that starts with "who/what's the best..."

[Johanna]

Greg, if money were no object, you'd need one of everybody's. It's Fords and Chevys, wine and women- some are better than others, some are just different. It would be great if you could get to a trade show and look at them, hold, them, tap a little. You may want different tools by different makers depending on your style of working and the look you want to get. It's hard to say "better", impossible to say "best". They all do certain things very well, which is why their tools cost more than Tandy tools.

The Hidecrafters tools were made in Japan by a company named Kyoshe Elle (I may have spelled that wrong!) if I am remembering correctly. George Hurst liked the quality, and the price was still less than the individual makers. I remember those tools as leaving very crisp impressions, but on a whole they were smaller than some of the comparable Tandy tools. Maybe somebone with a better memory than mine can fill in the details?

That said, I have seen Jim Linnell, Tony Laier, Karla Van Horne and others randomly pull tools off the rack of whatever Tandy store they are visiting and create precise and beautiful works of art. Go figure.

Johanna

[Jordan]

Kinda like the old blues masters, they could make an old plywood box and a 2x4 sound like the best guitar ever made!

[rickybobby]

Johanna is right,

When you are a master at something, you can make it look good almost no matter what tool you use, these folks have mastered the ART. That said for the rest of us that do this (the best we can) Some of the other makers tools help us by not leaving bevel marks, untrue, crooked borders, basketweave that does not line up, ect. because these tools have inherent caracteristics that help us avoid these things with our less than perfect techniques. This is not a put down to anyone (me included) but I have used several makes of tools on the same piece of leather and had different results. The custom makers tools made my work look better!!!

I own more Craftools then any others, and I use them everyday, I also have some that were made in the 60's next to same tool made lately (no comparison) the older are cleaner and crisper, closer to the custom makers tools. I weigh the service, cost, quality, when I buy tools and if one makes my work look better and it is easier to use, I make the investment.

Like Bruce said, I file, grind, sand the $6.00 tool it makes it better or if not I don't mide tossing it and looking for another answer (custom maker stamp). Use the tools you have and perfect your techniques, if you continue to have problems maybe search elsewhere. For me the other makers BEVELS helped me a bunch. And after using a custom makers basket stamp, I will continue to build my tool collection with what works best for me and my customers.

Rick Jorgenson

[Randy Cornelius]

The one thing that Tandy Stores has going for it is that the hobbiest can walk in and try out the tools and see what they do before they buy and not have to spend a small fortune to do it. Otherwise that person has to spend the money to go to a show and look at the big name tool makers tools. Those of us know what they cost.

What I don't like is going to a class and having an instuctor tell you that you have to buy so in so's tool in order to do what he is demonstrating. When in reality there is most likely a Tandy tool that would do the same job for a whole lot less. It seems that everyone is pushing everyone elses products at the shows, which is fine but the instrutors should tell the students other ways to do the same thing with a less expensive tool. The expensive tool will maybe save you a little time or make it look nicer in one pass. Example: I took a class on covering a swell and horn of a saddle. The instuctor told us we had to us a specific tool to trim the horn. I knew from experence that it could be done just as well with a round knife and a #5 Tandy edger. But he said we had to buy this 125.00 hand made tool to do it. I think that holds some back when they feel they have to buy these expensive tools to make them better, EXPERIANCE AND PRACTICE MAKES YOU BETTER not some fancy tool. Yes, I buy the fancy tools but that is a diease and an infliction that comes with years of experiance. LOL They should have AA for Leatherworkers! LOL

Randy

[Art]

Hi Greg,

Ellis Barnes makes a very good set of 15 tools for $125. It is a basic set but you can do a lot with it. The price makes it a no brainer. Jump on that one while Ellis is still with us. I have my own favorite toolmaker and most of my tools are by him, but I have a lot of Tandy tools that I picked-up when Tandy wasn't LF and even ones today where I might want to try something out and if I like it and start using it a lot I order a better one and wait the year or so to get it. Obviously, I take my Tandy tools to teach Scouts. I have seen very good work done with ONLY Tandy tools, and even better work done with JUST a modeling tool, and that looked like it was a Tandy too. You can and will make due with what you can afford.

Art

Thanks, everyone. I'll definitely be ordering some of those catalogs, and get a good grip on what's out there and for how much.

I remember that I did have a non-Tandy tool in my collection that was really good. I went out and checked, and it's a Hackbarth. It doesn't have a code number on it, but it's a round checked shader of some kind. I think I got it during some kind of promotion a few years ago, or as a prize from something. Anyway, it's far and away a better tool than anything else in my collection, including Tandy tools my dad had from when I was a kid in the scouts (probably before that, actually).

While I readily admit that I'm no master at this, it's clear to me now how big a difference the quality of the tools make, even in the hands of an amateur.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Dale]

I'm going to be a little repetitive, but I think some points bear repeating. Tandy and Hidecrafter target the hobbyist, and in that respect they have good tools. Same applies to any other hobby...you have hobbyist tools and professional tools. Ever hear of a student-grade paint brush? paint? craft-grade foam-cutter? Anybody ever walk out of Harbor Freight tools with a little less cash because you "didn't need to pay the extra 20% for the professional-grade bench grinder?" The only place I hear of tools causing a creative struggle is with leathercrafters. Painters don't blame the paint or the brushes, sculptors don't blame the clay, and woodworkers don't blame the table saw. If they don't like what they're using, they go get something else. We go through the same discussion periodically. The last one I participated in was about a year ago. That's when I sat down in the local Tandy and only used tools off the rack (except the swivel knife which was laying out on the bench) to create the attached picture. The tools seemed to work ok.

Before anyone starts thinking I can only sing Tandy's praises, I will say that I think they are currently missing the mark with respect to how the Craftools are used. All of the literature (instruction books, patterns, etc) and instruction specifies the "right" way to use each Craftool. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the tools that are produced today are deviating from the intended design to the point where many of them are less useful in creating the impression "as instructed." You may still be able to reproduce the design, but you may need to use different Craftools to get it. In other words, the rules are changing. In fact, assume there are no rules. Rather than depend on Al or Jim or Tony to tell you how it's "supposed" to be done, do it your own way. Judge your success on how well you like your own creation rather than how well you reproduce somebody else's creation. And have fun with it.

Dale

[Bree]

I am going to speculate a bit.

I looked at several of my Tandy stamps tonight and I think they are all plated. They sure look like they are plated to me.

That would mean that a crisp cut on the metal is going to get "softened" by the plating deposits. A tool cut from say good stainless steel and unplated should have better edges than a tool plated with nickel and/or chrome.

Anyway that's my unprofessional SWAG.

[Leerwerker]

The remake of the Craftools stamps are well in progress and the new models are some even better than my pre-1975 tools.

There is only one I am not happy with - the 902 very pointed beveler - my old one has straight sides and is good for the ends of hair and very sharp corners. The new one has more a miniature pear shader form...

Stamping tools is a highly subjective issue. Don't criticize any one set of tools or a tool maker - just do not buy it, I am sure nobody forces you to buy any particular line of tools.

And for some perspective, look at the tools Stohlman started with (my picture is not very good - it was taken to show the display and here I had to just give you one corner of the picture) Note the two swivel knives at the top ...

Edited December 2, 2008 by Leerwerker