Durkopp 239-525 Big Enough?

[farmersracer]

Hello every one

I am using a durkopp 239-525 to sew leather bags. The machine has been geared down to slow speed. But has started to break needles. I wonder if I am starting to reach the limits of this machine when I am sewing a stack of 8 millimeter (1/3 inch) mixed materials? Waxed cotton and veg leather.

The machine is feeding good and makes the stitches in a nice way.

I am using 130 size 21 needle

I have noticed that the needle is hitting the material before the walking foot. When the walking foot is reaching the materials the needle has reached 6 millimeters into the materials. Is this a timing problem - or is this ok?

The rest of the timing is great.

Do I need a bigger machine or is the durkopp 239 good for this work?

This is the needle in the highest position:

This is when the walking foot is in contact with the feed dog:

When the presser foot is moved up one can see that the needle is 6 millimeter into the feed dog:

The materials is veg leather and waxed cotton in a 8 millimeter stack:

Seen from the front one can see that the walking foot is not in contact with the material when the needle hit the fabric:

Edited November 9, 2015 by farmersracer

[Uwe]

Yes, in general the inner presser foot is supposed to get to the material before the needle enters and let go of the material only after after the needle exits.

Your machine may be able to sew reliably with those materials, but it will need to be timed/adjusted very well. Breaking needles means something is off, and it may be more than just the inner presser foot timing.

I'm not really familiar with the 239 model and online documentation is very limited. The walking foot mechanism looks a lot like the Singer 111 and Consew 225 class of machines. Chances are good that the inner (vibrating) presser foot timing adjustments works the same. Look at the "Timing of the vibrating presser foot" section on page 8 of the Consew 225 manual and see if your mechanism on the back looks/works the same.

You say the rest of the timing is great. Do you know it's great or do you just assume it's okay because it makes a nice stitch when it's not breaking needles? If you need to sew at the limits of what the machine is capable of, timing and adjustments really do have to be "perfect", not just "good enough to make a stitch."

Post some pictures of the back and underside (hook area) of the machine when you get a chance. It'll help figure out what's going on.

[Wizcrafts]

I always re-position the inside foot to match the tip of the needle on the top of the leather, when changing thicknesses more than 7 - 8 ounces. Not only does the leather feed better, but it also improves the fwd/rev stitch length matching.

[farmersracer]

Yes, in general the inner presser foot is supposed to get to the material before the needle enters and let go of the material only after after the needle exits.

Your machine may be able to sew reliably with those materials, but it will need to be timed/adjusted very well. Breaking needles means something is off, and it may be more than just the inner presser foot timing.

I'm not really familiar with the 239 model and online documentation is very limited. The walking foot mechanism looks a lot like the Singer 111 and Consew 225 class of machines. Chances are good that the inner (vibrating) presser foot timing adjustments works the same. Look at the "Timing of the vibrating presser foot" section on page 8 of the Consew 225 manual and see if your mechanism on the back looks/works the same.

You say the rest of the timing is great. Do you know it's great or do you just assume it's okay because it makes a nice stitch when it's not breaking needles? If you need to sew at the limits of what the machine is capable of, timing and adjustments really do have to be "perfect", not just "good enough to make a stitch."

Post some pictures of the back and underside (hook area) of the machine when you get a chance. It'll help figure out what's going on.

Thanks Owe for the tips.

And I have to confess that a assume that the machine has a good timing because it make good stitches:) I need some help here to make it run perfect.

The manual of the Consew is spot on the same as the Dürkopp. I have worked a lot with timing of the needle and the shuttle - these adjustments I know about. But the feeding, both presser feet and feed dogs are new to me.

I work with the same machine in different thickness and various materials. But the most common thickness is 1/4 inch leather and canvas - I will start here.

This is pictures of the machine. And I have also added som drawings from a german manual, with numbers that might be useful for orientation.

Regards

LG

[Uwe]

Thanks for the additional pictures and manual graphics. Amazing how many different models of that class of machines exist that are 90% identical!

I was able to make my Consew 225 sew 9mm of veg tan leather after I adjusted hook timing and needle guard. I did not go into presser foot timing since mine seemed fine. I documented my little adventure in three videos:Hook Timing, Needle Guard, Sewing Demo:

For some reason it won't embed this third video of the sewing demo:

The adjustment details for your machine may vary by a fraction of a millimeter here and there. Use the numbers from your service manual if you have it (if you do, please post a PDF here - we're always looking or manuals it seems!). Otherwise, the Consew 225 number are a great starting point.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Uwe

[farmersracer]

Thanks Owe

Great films that will be useful for the timing.

One question:

I have used the small vertical gear to adjust the hook timing. Is this a problem, or is it ok?

Regards

farmer's racer

[Art]

Needle breakage can also be from the needle striking the needle plate. Admittedly, this happens a whole bunch when the foot/needle timing is off. If you have a product that is difficult to manipulate in the machine, now add to that the needle in the work before the foot comes down to hold it and bingo. Most big stitchers have a pretty easy to get to adjustment on the back (follow the linkage) to raise or lower the inner foot in relation to the needle. Needless to say the machine can't switch from 4oz to 24oz without a little adjustment.

Art

[DrmCa]

Could waxed thread be the reason? I guess this is a textile upholstery machine that was not intended to stitch leather.

[gigi]

On 11/9/2015 at 7:17 PM, farmersracer said:

I am using a durkopp 239-525 to sew leather bags

May I ask what needle size are you using? I have exactly the same model (bought it in used condition) and the manual is listing 2134-35 needle system. Ordered some needles 134x35LR and they are too long.  

Thanks!

[gottaknow]

Uwe. That really is a nice adjustment on that needle guard. I bet that machine sews nice.

Regards, Eric